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CO2 and lighting...

O

Ozzy_Uk

Seedling
Joined
8 Jan 2013
Messages
16
Hi all
now I appreciate that this tank may not be to everyone's taste, but it is for my kids. I have the start of a decent planted tank, but my java leaves seem to be browning more and more (although the other plants seem pretty happy so far)...

I am injecting CO2 at a rate of about 1 bubble every 1.5 -> 2 seconds, and the CO2 start 1 hr before the light comes on, and then goes off 1 hr before the light goes off, light currently comes on at 8am and off at 8pm...

tank size is close to 90l including the external filter capacity (probably 82-85l in the actual tank)...

fish wise I have 1 bristle nose catfish, 3 armarno shrimp, 6 flame tail guppies, 6 multi coloured tetra, and 3 dwarf chain loach...

PH is spot on 7.4-7.5 all the time, trace ammonia (less than 0.6), trace nitrites, trace nitrates, so all seems happy, temp is 25C and very constant with the occational jump to 26C...

any advice on the lighting and CO2 injection appreciated as this both my first tropical tank, and first planted tank...

substrate is tetraplant complete, and the gravel is a brown fine gravel... we recently had some snails infest the tank, hence the 3 dwarf chain loach to eat them and keep them under control, but I understand snails are not always a bad thing, so happy to leave them to naturally balance themselves in the tank, as everything else seems happy.

Picture:
2AABEF9A-5844-4A1C-BFF2-4787AA83AB90-23306-000007F46039CACF_zps9f01128a.jpg

thanks
Oz.
 
Hello,
Browning is caused by poor CO2. This is evidenced by the fact that the pH does not fall. Spot on pH is a completely meaningless goal and does nothing for either fish or fauna. If you are adding CO2, you then need to add nutrients. Trace levels of NO3 definitely does not make for happy plants.

You really need to have a look through the Tutorial section. There is an article there specifically on the subject of the special needs of a CO2 injected tank.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Hello,
Browning is caused by poor CO2. This is evidenced by the fact that the pH does not fall. Spot on pH is a completely meaningless goal and does nothing for either fish or fauna. If you are adding CO2, you then need to add nutrients. Trace levels of NO3 definitely does not make for happy plants.

You really need to have a look through the Tutorial section. There is an article there specifically on the subject of the special needs of a CO2 injected tank.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

thanks, the weird thing is its just the java ferns... the other plants are absolutely fine, and are a nice bright green colour with no issues...
the weekly feed I am using is tropica plant+ I am using approx. 1ml per 10l weekly... (so about 10ml per week)...
I actually reduced the CO2 slightly from the original 1 bubble per second, to about 1 every 1.5-2 seconds now...
when I say trace I mean that it doesn't show up at all on my master test, certainly cant match the NO3 or NO2 levels to anything but the approx. 0 (although tap water has it in so assume there is some)...
maybe I should rephrase to NO2 and NO3 effectively 0... likewise for the ammonia, although that is somewhere between the 0.0 and 0.6 level but closer to 0.0...
 
It's difficult to see from the picture, but are your java ferns planted in the substrate? If so that won't be helping?
 
Hello,
The plant that is dying of CO2 starvation does not care about any of the reasoning. It does not care that some other plant in the same tank is doing fine. All it cares about it that it needs more CO2.

Cheers,
 
DTL said:
It's difficult to see from the picture, but are your java ferns planted in the substrate? If so that won't be helping?
Click to expand...


they are on terracotta sticks sat on the top of the gravel, next to the wood I am hoping it will work its way up...
they are also the 2 closest plants to the CO2 diffuser, which is in the back left (on the picture)... the other plants are the other side of the tank...
I will up the CO2 back to 1 bubble per second and see if that helps, if I inject too much CO2 will the PH go up??
 
is your spraybar always above the water level?
I may be speaking out of term,but is this not gassing off the co2 that you're adding?
 
the spray bar is usually square with the level, so 50% above and below water line resulting in waves, but no bubbles... the picture was taken before I topped it back up, it had evaporated off slightly since last weeks top up...
 
I'm sure the position of the spray bar on the side of the tank, rather than the back wall of the tank isn't helping any. The Java fern stuck in the far opposite corner, hidden behind the wood and other ornaments will be suffering from poor water flow and distribution.

Can you move the spray bar to the back wall? This will help to improve things.

As Ceg ( who is always right about matters such as this ) has pointed out already, you need to look at the Co2 levels in the tank. Maybe move the Java fern to a better position in the tank so that it can access the gas more easily.
 
i could move it, the filter inlet is below it, and you can see the water circulating at the back end of the tank, when cleaning it tonight you could see the debris moving through the water and the flow is a nice smooth flow across the top of the tank, dropping down at the end, and back under the spray bar to the intake for the external filter...

there will be some poorer flow arround the large bits of wood, but the chain loach and cat fish and shrimp seem to really like the lower flow darker areas to hide in, and i dont have any plants in those areas...
i did move the middle java fern tonight on its terracotta tube to sit on top of the middle bit of wood in the hope the moss and fern will like the better water flow, and spread across the wood, i also upped the CO2 to 1.5 bubbles per second to see if that improve things.
 
Hi

can you list your plants and the light and ferts you use? I see that the substrate is not inert and you put trace ferts. Perhaps your plants (from the pic) are good enough for low tech tank? Jave fern grows well in non-co2 tanks as well.. and being a fern, it does get black spots with spores. They look very messy indeed if they arent your taste. Better pics would also help.

As Ceg mentions having precise pH or other numbers/targets dont help much if plants are suffering.

BTW, my son likes your tank!
 
i cant remember the names of the large leaf'd one, or the taller one in the back corner, will have to check when im at home...
the others are just the java ferns and some moss...
 
I guess plants are: Anubias H., Java fern, and some Ludiwigia (repens??) or hygrophilia variety, rather than L. aromatica. Indeed it would be difficult for me to assume that L. aromatica is doing well but your Java fern is having problems.

If my guess is correct, then you have platns that can thrive in low co2 low tech tanks. Of course having co2 is always welcome. Perhaps the best would be to physically remove the browned leaves of the fern, and check that your flow is sufficiently reaching everywhere in the tank. Ferns are some of the most hardy plants in the tank.
 
i picked off all the dead leaves, when i moved them round last night, and cleaned the filter, and gave the tank a 20% water change...
 
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