Cant get rid of hair algae, please help

[marekm]

@Miniandy thank you 🙂
@Connswater

• interesting, why should getting rid of the skimmer help? I thought its pretty important to have clear surface without scum to help with gas transfer (oxygenation)
• I have 3 mollies, they dont seem to do much damage to the algae 🙂
• How should the sand help? I would worry that over time it would mix with aquasoil and make a mess + it would worsen the (perhaps already not great) flow in the soil

 

[Connswater]

@Miniandy thank you 🙂
@Connswater

• interesting, why should getting rid of the skimmer help? I thought its pretty important to have clear surface without scum to help with gas transfer (oxygenation)
• I have 3 mollies, they dont seem to do much damage to the algae 🙂
• How should the sand help? I would worry that over time it would mix with aquasoil and make a mess + it would worsen the (perhaps already not great) flow in the soil

All good questions, and my answers may not be totally satisfactory.

I personally don't like skimmers, I do ripple the surface with my filter output, sometimes with a lily pipe across part of the tank surface for adequate O2 exchange. Skimmers however, unlike the outflow of the filter block up with immature floating plants and are not normally used with floating plants, which of course makes them really handy for getting rid of duckweed. They can suck in fry, my mollies are self-sustaining. I like my tanks to have a relatively peaceful undisturbed surface on some of the tank, with the meniscus unbroken and spring tail colonies existing. Fish fry feed on the immature spring tails. Adult fish feed on mature spring tails, useful when I am on holiday. I think, a balanced surface, some movement some still water, is more natural, pond like, with less CO2 lost, but oxygen exchange on part of the surface. Some of this helps with algae control, that is harvesting floating plants, the nutrients they export, the shade they provide, the reduction in CO2 lost, and floating plants are good indicators of nutrient deficiency - the 'duckweed index', I've generally seen skimmers used on tanks with a clear surface. If you pump in enough CO2 I am sure skimmers have something to add to the environment for fish and rooted plants, but 10 years ago, I don't think anybody used one and I tend to be a bit of 'old time' fish guy. I've used them, and electrolysis devices, I personally haven't found either helpful but floating plants are, I find, the main way to keep a planted tank manageable and healthy. Floating plants do wonders for water quality and if the tank isn't open i.e. has cover glass, with floating plants, water top ups and water changes can be significantly reduced, I have to mix rain water with my tap water, so I don't want to do lots of water changes.

Mollies. Depends on the size of the tank and numbers, I have a dozen adults in a four foot, and many fry and immature fish. But mollies are no magic solution to algae, in my experience no livestock is, though an old friend had an algae, and plant free tank, thanks to a fairly large pleco. Mollies do graze continuously on fresh algae and Rosy barbs will eat BBA, the only fish I have found that will. In my experience shrimp need to be almost in plague proportions to really impact algae, this happened to me with cherry shrimp in an office tank some years ago. I think, mollies help prevent plants getting covered with algae, nipping it, sort of, in the bud, they don't impact upon well established algae. But I cannot scientifically prove it.

My main tank is mainly horticultural grit, it is too large in particle size to stop plant tabs leaching quickly, but fine enough for plant roots, a covering of silver sand seals the surface I think, to some extent, reducing the speed of water column fertilisation. A sealing probably works best on soil, on even fine gravel it will eventually settle down to the bottom, but then it still serves as a burial material for root tabs. Sand is also very much favoured of course by corydoras species, who blow it out of their gills constantly, moving it and thus keeping the surface relatively clear and green algae free.

 

[marekm]

I am again struggling a bit, I have introduced some new plants to the tank. One of them is particularly pretty - Bacopa Australis. It is growing very nicely, but the condition of the plant is getting gradually worse and I am very sad about it, this seems to be a very beautiful plant for midground and foreground.

The first picture shows the plant after introducing it to the tank 3 weeks ago, the other three are from today. It was beautifully green at the beginning, but it is getting dull/yellowish with brown edges and curled leaves.
This seems to be similar with other plants, they are growing nicely but their condition is sub-optimal.
I am really struggling to find out why this is happening. I can definitely rule out CO2, the levels are stable, the drop checker is always lime green during photoperiod. The lighting is Chihiros WRGB2 SLIM set at around 55% (with more red and less green/blue), so I think the lighting shouldnt be an issue either.
Regarding the dosing, I am using an EI set from the local aquarist manufacturer, I am pretty sure the macros are sufficient (NO3 readings are constantly 10+ ppm, PO4 is 0.8+ ppm, K is 20+ppm).
The macro set consists of: KNO3 (44g), KH2PO4 (5g) a K2SO4 (26g)
The micro nutrients consist of: 0,52 % boron, 0,53 % (EDTA) zinc, 2,57 % (EDTA) calcium, 0,53 % (EDTA) copper, 2,10 % (EDTA) iron, 1,74 % (DTPA) iron, 2,57 % (EDTA) mangese, 0,13 % molybdenum.

I am dosing a bit of extra KH2PO4 daily, extra magnesium after water changes and these additional things 1-2x per week, just to rule out any possible defficiency or unavailability:
Seachem Flourish Advanced
Seachem Nitrogen
Seachem Iron

I am doing a water change 50% weekly and reprenish the nutrients after the water change.

I am planning to get floating plants as per duckweed index, eventho the last try did not end up successfully - they either gradually melted away or were eaten by fish - not sure.

Anybody has any idea what I might be missing? I am really sad and dissapointed, it seems there is something trivial that I might be missing and the plants are not flourishing because of this.
I am willing to try anything really, just to see an improvement. If you have ANY suggestion, please let me know.

 

[Riley]

I had and still have some issues with hair algae, I now have lots of floating plants and Hornwart .
The hornwort will grow really fast so needs to be managed and kept trimmed, I just use aquarium weights and cut from the bottom when needed, it definitely works , the advice on hear is great and has really helped me.

 

[Nuno da Silva]

Hi,

I would stop the Seachem dosing. If you're dosing the EI with the values reported, then you're OK for NPK+MICROS, don't dose extra stuff, it's just noise.

The only thing left is Ca and Mg. What water are you using for the WC? If RO or rain water, remineralize with Calcium and Magnesium to your desire gH and you should be good to go! If using tap water, you need your water report to understand your Ca Mg levels.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Anybody has any idea what I might be missing? I am really sad and dissapointed, it seems there is something trivial that I might be missing and the plants are not flourishing because of this.

What @Nuno da Silva says, it doesn't look like anything is missing, other magnesium (Mg) possibly? I might try adding some Epsom salts (MgSO4.7H2O).

Cheers Darrel

 

[marekm]

Thanks guys, I am using tap water, which is around 2 degrees KH and 4 degrees GH according to my JBL kit.
I add 1 teaspoon of MGSO4 (which is part of the EI kit) with every water change, to bring the MG to at least 8ppm (again, measured with my JBL kit).
Could this be related to Ca deficiency? I thought plants generally prefer soft-ish water, 4 dGH sounds like enough to me + I have some seiryu stones there as well.

I will try to add hornwort(looks similar in appearance and function as my limnophila sessiloflora) and floating plants.

EDIT: @Nuno da Silva
my water report says
Ca + Mg combined: 0,83 mmol/l
NO3: 3,45 mg/l
FE: 0,05 mg/l
Mn: <15 ug/l
free chlorine: 0,10 mg/l

EDIT2: I am thinking about adding a second filter, the Oase Biomaster 600 seems to be the lower limit for 200L. Maybe adding something like Aquael ultramax 1000. Could this improve anything?

 

[marekm]

here is a list of changes for the last 1-2 months:

introduced some new plants:

• Lobelia Cardinalis mini - beautiful plant, seems to be doing mostly well, but in the last couple of days I noticed somebody is having a snack on it (I suspect the mollies or pearl gouramis)
• Bacopa australis - beautiful midground plant, seems to be growing pretty fast, doing ok with some browning/yellowing issues
• Bacopa crenata and Bacopa purple - beautiful background plants
• Limnobium laevigatum - hopefully this time it will do ok, the previous cup has melted for unknown reason
• Ceratophyllum demersum aka Hornwort - as suggested for controlling water quality
• HC cuba - as a carpeting plant, I am really interested how this one will do

Changes in crew

• gave away Keyhole Cichlids - they are sweet fish, but I just lost patience with constantly uprooting plants
• introduced Corydoras - they may help with the health of the substrate, they dig constantly but luckily they dont uproot plants
• introduced shrimp - 14 amano shrimp and 8 cherry shrimp for beginning, they are hiding for most of the time, but they should be ok now with cichlids removed. I would love to have as much as 40 amano shrimp in the tank (one per 5L), but they are so damn expensive

Changes in setup/maintenance

• the skimmer is now running only for 15 minutes couple of times a day - mainly because of the floating plants
• the outflow is set up higher to compensate for the disabled skimmer
• removed all the floss from filter to improve water flow, I will have to be more responsible with filter cleaning now
• as suggested, I am not dosing seachem flourish iron anymore, just Nitrogen and Flourish advance after water changes
• did some calculations, since my tap water is 4 dGH and Mg is 2ppm, that should mean that Ca is 25ppm. I need to add around 7 ppm of Mg to have a good Ca:Mg ratio. Thats what I have been +- doing already, so no change needed here
• I am not removing the algae infested leaves as aggresivelly as before, because I think it might cause further disbalance by reducing plant mass and the roots rotting away. I will keep removing leaves that look damaged or start to rot, but I try to leave the hair infested leaves unless the algae infestion is very bad

I am still considering adding a second filter (Aquael Ultramax 1500), I guess the worst outcome would be that it doesnt do anything, but it would still be somewhat beneficial in case of a malfunction of my current filter. But I am planning to wait 2-4 weeks and then decide.

 

[marekm]

update: Second filter installed

after re-watching this: (Green Aqua filter guide v2) - especially the first couple of minutes, I have decided that weak filtration might indeed contribute to the algae problems in my tank. It would make sense because in first year of this tank I had virtually zero issues with algae. I think what happened is that my Oase Biomaster 600 was at the tipping point in terms of performance even at the beginning. A clear hint to me was that Green Aqua usually uses the Oase Biomaster 600 for 60L tanks, so for a 200L it might be insufficent.
Now that the filter is worn, the media is clogged and the flow is sub-optimal, I think it is not able to cope with the demands. Especially since I often do major things in the tank that disturb the balance and cause a sudden ammonia spike - for example with rotala and limnophila I often uproot them and use only the top parts of the plants, since they are the prettiest and most healthy. The last time I did such replanting the TDS went from 130 to 220 - not sure what does that mean but I guess it might be ammonia?
This is just a speculation, but I am sure that adding a second filter will give me more room for error and suboptimal maintenance, since during the summer months I am often forgetting water changes and filter cleaning tasks.
I have decided to go with the Aquael Ultramax 2000, originally wanted the 1500, but the price difference was very small and I want to have a sufficient reserve in the flow so that I can regulate the performance over time. At the moment the filter is running at approximately 40% of the flow.
The filter looks and feels very nice - I would say the build quality is not much different from Oase, and the prefilter seems to be a lot more user friendly. It is also significantly quieter and has bigger room for filter media. Considering all this and the flow rate, which I would say is definitely at least 2 times bigger than Oase (but we will see after the new filter settles in), and the price difference - Oase is 2x the price of Aquael, I think I have a clear winner in my mind.
The only major downside is the atypical diameter of the hoses - 19/25 vs 16/22 of the Ultramax 1500 version. For now I decided to use the inlet/outlet that comes with the filter, but I will eventually think about upgrading these, especially the massive inlet since it is ugly as ****.

Since I already have premium biomedia in the Oase filter (4L of seachem matrix), and since the consensus on this forum seems to be that the price for premium media is not worth it, I have decided to use a combination of the stuff that came with the filter & the original Oase media & some cheap stuff from the local brand.
So the setup is as follows (from bottom up):
prefilter: coarse sponge
tray 1: half of mid-coarse sponge and half of fine sponge that came with the filter
tray 2: floss that came with the filter with 250ml of off-brand purigen: INVITAL InstaPURE 250ml
tray 3: ceramic rings that came with the filter combined with plastic stuff that came with the Biomaster
tray 4: plastic stuff that came with the Biomaster
tray 5: invital filter pro: INVITAL Filter PRO 1000ml

I have also removed the air stone and the skimmer since the new filter is doing a really good job of surface agitation.

 

[Connswater]

Keep us informed, all very interesting.