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Calcium and dosing fertilisers

MiZubov

MiZubov

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
73
Location
Russia
Hi!
With an increase in gH (Calcium to a greater extent), is it necessary to increase the dosage of fertilizers? It is believed that calcium is an antagonist for many elements, and therefore suppresses their consumption. Is it so?
If your gH is 3 and 15, will you increase fertilizers 5 times more (maybe only 1 or 2 elements, not all)? Or will you not change anything in your fertilizer dosing?
Thanks a lot.
 
Good question @M.eremin, Yes, relative excessive levels of Calcium can inhibit uptake of some other essential macro elements (Mg, K and other positive ions). To what extent and at what level of Ca this becomes a problem relative to other elements, and how to compensate for it is a lesser known to me at least, but sticking to the oft cited ratios for Ca:Mg:K is probably a fair bet. So for instance, if you double the amount of Ca you would double the amount of Mg and K and so forth. I am sure @dw1305 , @Happi , @_Maq_ and others can elaborate on this.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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I'd rather wait until/if any signs of deficiency appear.
Some things are generally valid. Par example, plants can take up potassium preferentially to calcium & magnesium.
Other things are species specific. Par example, some plants simply require soft water (low in Ca & Mg). Others can handle it, some are tolerant even to strong imbalance between Ca and Mg.
Some other nutrients may be chronically deficient in hard, alkaline & basic environment. Arguably the biggest problem is iron. Some plants can handle it, others with the help of iron chelates (and CO2 injection), some will falter no matter what.
@M.eremin, you're obviously not approaching the issue of nutrition systematically. If you were, you'd begin with reverse osmosis. If you completely mineralize RO water, then we can talk about amounts & ratios. But you have your liquid rock. In such conditions, some species can definitely prosper, others will not. Try and see. Generally, species which are described as "demanding" or "difficult" are less likely to thrive in hard, alkaline & basic water.
 
_Maq_ said:
@M.eremin, you're obviously not approaching the issue of nutrition systematically. If you were, you'd begin with reverse osmosis. If you completely mineralize RO water, then we can talk about amounts & ratios. But you have your liquid rock. In such conditions, some species can definitely prosper, others will not. Try and see. Generally, species which are described as "demanding" or "difficult" are less likely to thrive in hard, alkaline & basic water.
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I'm using RO water, but stones raises gH very high.
 
@M.eremin please for the love of Jesus (its a northern saying) provide some information about your tank. As requested int (another northern saying) tother thread.
 
M.eremin said:
I'm using RO water, but stones raises gH very high.
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if plants are your main priority, I would suggest that you remove anything from the water that can have a major side effects on the water chemistry. stones that raise GH, also raise KH as well and this is going to have a negative effects on the water chemistry. it is preferred that you maintain 0-1 dkh, less the better and this will help the plants and the nutrients in the water, acidic environment is preferred by both plant and nutrients. at the moment you are defeating the purpose of using the RO water.
M.eremin said:
Hi!
With an increase in gH (Calcium to a greater extent), is it necessary to increase the dosage of fertilizers? It is believed that calcium is an antagonist for many elements, and therefore suppresses their consumption. Is it so?
If your gH is 3 and 15, will you increase fertilizers 5 times more (maybe only 1 or 2 elements, not all)? Or will you not change anything in your fertilizer dosing?
Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
Calcium and Magnesium are usually not the problem if you are maintaining a low to 0 dkh. far as the dgh goes, its never needed in such high amounts either, you can maintain a low Ca and Mg levels if you are maintaining a lower levels for all other nutrients. if Ca is too high, yes it can cause problems with uptake of other nutrients, but why would you want to add it in such a high amount to begin with? especially while using RO water?


if you could maintain this, you will find that its fairly accurate, Fe and Mn might need additional attention though.

1699719541580.png


some people also dose the above while using different Ca, Mg, K levels where they maintain Ca 10, Mg 4, K 1-2 ppm, these levels are sufficient, especially the amount of K is never needed to be high as what most of the forums will tell you to add. most importantly, maintain the low KH 0 if possible.
 
Happi said:
if plants are your main priority, I would suggest that you remove anything from the water that can have a major side effects on the water chemistry. stones that raise GH, also raise KH as well and this is going to have a negative effects on the water chemistry. it is preferred that you maintain 0-1 dkh, less the better and this will help the plants and the nutrients in the water, acidic environment is preferred by both plant and nutrients. at the moment you are defeating the purpose of using the RO water.

Calcium and Magnesium are usually not the problem if you are maintaining a low to 0 dkh. far as the dgh goes, its never needed in such high amounts either, you can maintain a low Ca and Mg levels if you are maintaining a lower levels for all other nutrients. if Ca is too high, yes it can cause problems with uptake of other nutrients, but why would you want to add it in such a high amount to begin with? especially while using RO water?


if you could maintain this, you will find that its fairly accurate, Fe and Mn might need additional attention though.

View attachment 212616

some people also dose the above while using different Ca, Mg, K levels where they maintain Ca 10, Mg 4, K 1-2 ppm, these levels are sufficient, especially the amount of K is never needed to be high as what most of the forums will tell you to add. most importantly, maintain the low KH 0 if possible.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
What negative effect does high alkalinity (kH) have, besides the fact that more carbon dioxide needs to be supplied and the soil is destroyed faster?
 
Happi said:
it precipitate many nutrients out of the solution, tanks are no exception and PH and KH plays quite a big role here.
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Can you give an example? What precipitates at high alkalinity? It turns out that I need to increase the dosage at high alkalinity?
 
M.eremin said:
Can you give an example? What precipitates at high alkalinity? It turns out that I need to increase the dosage at high alkalinity?
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I believe this was already covered on your other thread here #64
Iron is the Major one that is highly affected by such scenario. if you were to use Fe (II) under high KH, you will find that it is rapidly precipitated. EDTA, DTPA etc. can be used to maintain the Iron levels under high KH water.
 
Happi said:
I believe this was already covered on your other thread here #64
Iron is the Major one that is highly affected by such scenario. if you were to use Fe (II) under high KH, you will find that it is rapidly precipitated. EDTA, DTPA etc. can be used to maintain the Iron levels under high KH water.
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Do I understand your point of view correctly? Calcium and Magnesium do not affect the dosage of fertilizers in any way, and high alkalinity requires an increased dosage of iron with the right chelator?
 
Happi said:
some people also dose the above while using different Ca, Mg, K levels where they maintain Ca 10, Mg 4, K 1-2 ppm, these levels are sufficient, especially the amount of K is never needed to be high as what most of the forums will tell you to add. most importantly, maintain the low KH 0 if possible.
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Will the dosages listed by you somehow change if the alkalinity is not 0, but 7, for example?
 
I ran a tank with GH10 and KH10 (remineralised RO/DI) and didn’t adjust the levels of micro being dosed other than using the appropriate chelate which in that case was DTPA (I also dose FeGluconate), when I was running a tank with GH6 and KH0 FeEDTA chelate was sufficient. Dosed every other day targeting Fe 0.15ppm. I don’t think there’s a need to increase fertilisation at this level of hardness as long as the appropriate Iron chelate is being used and that the micro ferts are being dosed regularly.
 
X3NiTH said:
I ran a tank with GH10 and KH10 (remineralised RO/DI) and didn’t adjust the levels of micro being dosed other than using the appropriate chelate which in that case was DTPA (I also dose FeGluconate), when I was running a tank with GH6 and KH0 FeEDTA chelate was sufficient. Dosed every other day targeting Fe 0.15ppm. I don’t think there’s a need to increase fertilisation at this level of hardness as long as the appropriate Iron chelate is being used and that the micro ferts are being dosed regularly.
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So, at high levels of alkalinity and general hardness, you just need to pay attention to iron?
 
There was a system developed many years ago called EI, this will work with your water. Conversely.
You can chase lean dosing, but it will not work with your current parameters. Anybody that thinks it will is living in cloud cuckoo land. 🫠
 
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John q said:
There was a system developed many years ago called EI, this will work with your water. Conversely.
You can chase lean dosing, but it will not work with your current parameters. Anybody that thinks it will is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Click to expand...
I have no problem dosing a lot of fertilizers, the only question is how much? I still have a few plants. How much do you recommend to dose per week NO3, PO4, K, Fe?
 
M.eremin said:
So, at high levels of alkalinity and general hardness, you just need to pay attention to iron?
Click to expand...

Yes, that’s all I’ve ever needed to do. I’ve measured in GH10 KH10 Fe dosed at 0.15ppm on one day (0.1ppm Fe Gluconate and 0.05 Fe DTPA) reduced to 0.025ppm by the next day (lots of plants in the tank), the Gluconate chelate is very temporary lasting only a few hours at best so assuming this chelate is reduce to zero then all that remains will be FeDTPA which is now half the original dose gone in a 24hr period, third day a new dose is added to bring the level back to 0.15ppm plus whatever amount of DTPA remains by day three (assuming the level only half’s again and doesn’t completely disappear then that would be a remainder of only 0.0125ppm DTPA).
 
X3NiTH said:
Yes, that’s all I’ve ever needed to do. I’ve measured in GH10 KH10 Fe dosed at 0.15ppm on one day (0.1ppm Fe Gluconate and 0.05 Fe DTPA) reduced to 0.025ppm by the next day (lots of plants in the tank), the Gluconate chelate is very temporary lasting only a few hours at best so assuming this chelate is reduce to zero then all that remains will be FeDTPA which is now half the original dose gone in a 24hr period, third day a new dose is added to bring the level back to 0.15ppm plus whatever amount of DTPA remains by day three (assuming the level only half’s again and doesn’t completely disappear then that would be a remainder of only 0.0125ppm DTPA).
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How much is NO3, PO4, K do you dose per week?
 
M.eremin said:
I have no problem dosing a lot of fertilizers, the only question is how much? I still have a few plants. How much do you recommend to dose per week NO3, PO4, K, Fe.
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Well, you refuse to give specific details about said tank so go with this.
www.ukaps.org

EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS

EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS The Economics of Dry Powders It never ceases to amaze me how many people react with trepidation to the thought of dosing their tanks with dry salts. For some reason they seem more comfortable spending megabucks on commercial products, which are composed of...
www.ukaps.org
If it's lightly planted and no co2 addition add a tenth of the above explanation.
 
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