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Best Substrate For RCS?

Cheers for letting me know.

I have a bit of bad news as sadly I found a dead shrimp this morning, it was not any of the berried one's thankfully, and I think another one looks a bit sluggish, I actually thought it was dead but it moved slowly eventually.
I was going to do a water change tomorrow, but decided to do it tonight, so did another 6 litres of the RO at 155 TDS.

When I switched the light on as it was out by this time, I noticed hundreds of these white things swim of the glass, they move in a darting form, and it seems like there consistently lagging. They also look like a white pixel, there so tiny, and its just like white dots darting around, but they dart forward, stop, then dart forward again. I'm surprised how many there are and how I've not noticed these before.

I have noticed some shrimp have like a little white patch on the top of them, just below there head. So its like a patch of lost colour. I've noticed this before though and just thought it was the specific shrimp colouring on certain shrimp. I'm a bit concerned, so either the shrimp died due to the tank still finding its balance, hence why I decided to do another water change tonight instead of tomorrow, just to try and get it balanced closer to the 155 TDS mark quicker. Its now at 190TDS.

Should I be worried? I also get random white things stuck on the glass, that don't move or nothing, I think I've seen this on a topic before and there harmless, but the other white things I mention above I have no idea if there good or bad. Hope someone else has come across this and can let me know what to do.

Thanks, I feel like the next week is going be critical, especially as the shrimp are going to have to adjust to the new water parameters, so the last thing I need is a parasite or something killing them. I feed only 2x a week to try lower the chance of bacteria issues etc.
 
Why have you aimed at such a low TDS of 155? It's quite low for any shrimp.
As for the patch, it's not normal. But I have no idea what it could be. Can you take a picture? Also of the "white dots"..
With a soil that buffers the water and water of a different TDS added the conditions maybe changing a bit too fast for the shrimp. It was probably better if you grew the plants and tank for a month or two and then add shrimp once the stats are stable and not changing. But cherries are hardy so they should survive.
If the setup is clean/new, those shrimp have nothing to eat for most of the week with only 2x a week but also newborn shrimplets need biofilm and some sort of food.
 
Hey sciencefiction

I aimed for 155 TDS as it gives me GH 7 and KH 2 and the RO is a PH of 6 so that's what I am putting in the tank with water changes.
I guess I could of gone with more GH but it would not of changed nothing else. When I got the shrimp my tank was 178 TDS, GH 8, KH 2, PH 7... so once again 155 seemed pretty close to that.

I will try and get a picture of the patches on some of the shrimp, its not on many, maybe 3 or 4. The shrimp I purchased of Ebay, seem to be a mix in grades, some are really red while others I think most people would cull as there pretty much wild looking, but I only have 2 wild looking. I just want to keep the most shrimp we can, and I don't have the heart to cull shrimp.

I hope your correct regarding the change being to quick, lets just hope the berried shrimps can survive, I guess that's the main priority as they could make up the numbers if I did lose any more, I hope I don't.

I did some quick research and it seems the white things may be Copepods but I'm not sure, I will have look tomorrow to see if I can make them out a bit better.

The tanks been running for months now, and I left the tank alone for about a month before I purchased any shrimp, just to make sure it was cycled a bit, even though I think with Ebi Gold you can add live stock the next day, anyhow I left it for a month to gather the bio film, and took Lindy's advice with the feeding at 2x a week, Wednesday & Sunday, and the rest of the days they can eat on bio film and a cattapa leaf. There always grazing on something in the tank, so I hope there not starving =\ The first shrimplets we had just stayed in all the Java moss for a couple of weeks. I think we gained about 10 shrimp from the first berried female, not sure if that's a good success rate or not.
 
Ok, now I understand. Thanks.
Generally with TDS, try to match a certain TDS, not a Gh or Kh, but obviously keep in mind Kh is needed to be present. The TDS meter I think is a more reliable way to evaluate the mineralized water.
As for the dead one, it can happen with new shrimp, especially if they were adults as you don't know how old they are, the important thing is the new generations that are born in the tank will have adjusted to the tank. I personally don't cull any shrimp. You don't know what genes they carry. The females I started with were very low grade cherries but now I have all colours, red rilis, blue shrimp, dark reds, etc..
Keeping a tank empty for a month can cause nitrification bacteria to die off unless the soil leached some ammonia.
I understand the tank was running for months, but changing the substrate is a major reset so I count it as a new tank, especially if you wiped it clean too in the process. A filter doesn't "mature" a tank instantly.
 
I thought cherries liked tds higher, lots of people seem to have them with tds of 300 upwards. Maybe that has been the problem all along. I had sakuras in with my crystals and they all slowly died off as the tds was too low for them. You are keeping your shrimp at near crystal condition.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the replies, I think I just cycled the tank by using plants from my main tank, and left the decay to contribute to ammonia, I also kept the filter in a bucket for the couple of hours it took me to take the old substrate out and the new in, at this time I only had one shrimp, and he survived all though this, not that it was ideal for him, but I had no where to put him, as in my main tank he would most likely been food. Anyhow I then left it a month to allow the substrate to cycle a bit, and kept an eye on Ammonia all through out and when adding the new shrimp. I tried to do everything correct this time around, the drip method etc... everything I've been taught from UKAPS 😀.

It was my first time re mineralising RO, so I took it to 155 TDS, did the tests and lucky for me hit a GH of 7 straight away, yesterday I did not do any tests but as you said just went by the TDS. What I could do is maybe go a bit higher in the future, maybe 170 TDS, and try aim for a GH of 8... this way the KH a may be a tad higher... and there for giving me more alkalinity? I hope I'm correct in saying that, as I know nothing about GH / KH / PH but get the gist.

In regards to the shrimp dying I can only hope its not a disease or something, I will try to take a picture but not sure how I will get a good one, its very hard to see and the white dots, I would have no chance with a camera, especially mine. Hopefully there just Copepods.

If shrimp start dropping like flies, I'm not sure what I can do? I guess I'm have to just hope that don't happen =\

Lindy when I first set up the Fluval Ebi with fluval stratum, the tds of my tap is around 300-320, All they did was die each month, so it could of been either a) my specific water or b) fluval stratum.. as I can't see what else was in the scape that would of caused the deaths, I guess c) the way I acclimated the shrimp in the past, but they are cherry shrimp and we lost batches and not once did any get berried, so I'm not convinced by my tap water.

The berried female we had a few months ago was at a TDS of about 180, and now 2 more, so hopefully they can adapt, it does say on internet they can accept a wide range of parameters, but I'm obviously no expert, I think I will stick at it... not sure what else I can do, and hopefully I can report back my success. Its just so hard. If we fail I think we will have to just give up with Neo shrimp, and maybe opt for CRS as a last chance at shrimp keeping before giving up completely 🙁.

I don't suppose any of you use certain products to keep bacteria away? do you also offer a variety of foods? or just stick to one brand? I am using Hikari shrimp food, but I see on Ebay, there are lots of different foods, that give different benefits? I also see such things as "mineral stones" what are your opinions on these and why are they needed since we re mineralise the RO anyway. Could they provide me any benefit? in also keeping the tank a bit more stable?

Thanks again for all the advice and helping.
 
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Just don't panic. One dead shrimp is not necessarily anything to worry about unless as you say they all start dropping and never get berried.
As for feeding, shrimp really can be fed a wide variety of foods and are quite the scavengers. Mine never even got shrimp specific food and I feed them fish food like New life spectrum and New Era plus all sorts of vegetables, blanched peas, zucchini, blanched spinach, etc...

Jafooli said:
I don't suppose any of you use certain products to keep bacteria away?
Click to expand...

What type of bacteria do you want to keep away? If anything, cherry shrimp are way hardier than many fish and it's unlikely they'll get sick unless the tank is kept really badly and you aren't. Your shrimp have a nice home 🙂
With too soft water the only problem with cherry shrimp is they won't be able to molt and can die while trying so. You can raise the TDS slightly and stop worrying about Gh and Kh particular values, even for softer water shrimp.
 
Thanks for the reinsurance, lets hope all ends well.

I have took a photo of one of the shrimp I was talking about earlier, so would be interested in what you make of it.
I have also linked a video of the white things in the tank, while you can see them all crawling and jumping about on the sponge filter, they don't swim much in the video, but now and then you get a glimpse. they seem to move in short bursts. I also hope maybe you or Lindy have seen these before lol, and can tell me if there a danger. ( I also uploaded a picture of these random white things that just stay on the glass )

2j5htz.jpg

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In the second video they swim a bit more.

Thanks again.
 
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The shrimp in the photo, I think that is her saddle you are seeing ie eggs waiting to be fertilised. The fast white dots look like seed shrimp (ostracods). I think they are pretty harmless but may be a sign of over feeding. And Big Clown is right, the other things are freshwater limpets and they are in both my tanks.
 
Agree with all said above. The white jumping bugs could be seed shrimp possibly. They are harmless scavengers. I've had them too.
The one on the glass is a freshwater limpet.

The white patch on the cherry shrimp......not completely sure it's normal. I can't recall seeing the saddles on mine from above. It could be a sign of problems with molting......or it could be the saddle but the shimp just have clear uncoloured patches on their backs not covering the saddle as Lucy says. I just haven't seen it so I don't know.
 
Thanks for the answers everyone.

At least I now know we have limpets, I looked on youtube at ostracods and they seem 10x bigger than the white dots, maybe this is the start of them so I will keep a close eye. Either way I hope there harmless whatever they are.

I have seen saddles on some of our shrimp, and you can make out the saddle clearly, however with a few it looks like its on there skelton as a yellow/white patch and sometimes there are lines going down there back, but Its been like this a while, so maybe its just them specific shrimps pattern, while others are fully red all over.

I also noticed a tiny shrimplet earlier, I could not see any others at all, and have had no berried females, so we must not of noticed. Very strange but hopefully more will appear soon.

I will try feed smaller portions for a week or two as I do put in a nice pinch, just to make sure each shrimp gets its own pellets.
 
Jafooli said:
I looked on youtube at ostracods and they seem 10x bigger than the white dots
Click to expand...
Ostracods(seed shrimp) are quite small, maybe 1-2mm ranging. They act like the shrimp and love the filter sponge.

Jafooli said:
but Its been like this a while, so maybe its just them specific shrimps pattern, while others are fully red all over.
Click to expand...
Not a great example but was looking at some of my pictures and on this one below on the red rili female to the right you can see the saddle clearly. And thinking of it yours just look to have clear patches with no colouring on top so it's logical some saddles would be visible too and probably nothing to worry about.

DSCF6374_zps288a8277.jpg

also noticed a tiny shrimplet earlier, I could not see any others at all, and have had no berried females, so we must not of noticed. Very strange but hopefully more will appear soon.
Click to expand...

They aren't very easy to see. The first time I had shrimplets I only noticed a couple until a few weeks later when they had grown up a bit and were everywhere competing with a bunch of corys for food. When just born they are super tiny so unless you stay around with a magnifying glass you may not see them up until week or so later. Be careful washing the filter as they go inside the pores of my sponges! They are as small as the seed shrimp but less noticeable as they aren't white and have mostly no colour. I end up with a ton of them in the dirty water on cleaning the filters and I've probably killed many but I have no choice.

I will try feed smaller portions for a week or two as I do put in a nice pinch, just to make sure each shrimp gets its own pellets.
Click to expand...

Why not feed very tiny portions, but every other day? There's no point adding larger amounts of food less often because even your filter bacteria needs consistency to adjust to a specific bioload. So when feeding rarely but more food you just overload the filter for those specific days as it suddenly has more ammonia to deal with.
It's very good if your food is in very small granules as they just grab one each and don't compete with each other.
 
Hey everyone,

So its been just over a month now, and things were going good, but they starting to go down hill again as I'm noticing a dead shrimp each morning, we've probably lost about 6 this past week.
I've taken everyone's advice above and we also do feed every other day now. The best news is there are shrimplets everywhere, off all sizes. There are way more shrimplets than adult shrimp.

I feel like the tank is balancing its self out when we reach a good number of shrimp, so maybe the filters are not adequate? We have the Fluval Ebi Stock filter, with a nice fine sponge so no shrimplets get sucked in, it seems good to me, and a sponge filter, which also seems good to me. There are no fish, the tank is planted, imo I think the filtration should be enough, but maybe its not. I've looked and looked for filters and I can't find any that are good for shrimp. I see some people use small canisters that are from China or somewhere, and look quite cheap. What filters do people use here? Also my girlfriend is always using her perfumes, sprays, etc.. in the same room the shrimp are? The tank does have a lid but I guess containments could still find a way in, as the lid does have gaps and a whole in it.

The filter has no carbon, so I thought adding this may improve water quality? Anyone here use carbon in there filter?

I also do 6 litres a week w/c, I've just started putting TDS to 200, as the batch of RO we got from the shop was more TDS this time around. 29 TDS. So I wanted to make sure I was re mineralising with enough mosura.

I also have noticed, the deaths to seem to be more around after the water change time. I don't match the tank temperature or nothing special, but from touch it seems room temp.
Maybe 20% is to much? If using RO can you do water changers over a longer period? as each week the TDS seems to of hardly rised, and by the time I use pure RO to top the tank up from condensation its back at where it was basically.

I just cant seem to put my finger on the issue, its either when the shrimp colony is getting large, or its the new RO batch we got, as this time it was double in TDS, 13 TDS last batch, 29 TDS this time.
It could be the hot weather? not enough variety in the diet? should we maybe get other foods? like mulberry?

I don't think oxygen is the issue as there is loads of surface movement, the deaths are not trapped moults, they just seem to be there dead.

I would be interested to know what others advice would be, as this thread has got us this far, we got the shrimplets at long last 😀 but now how do we get the colony, as its not all falling in place as of yet.

Thanks in advance.
 
Your girlfriend has to understand absolutely no aerosols to be used in the shrimp room! Also must wash hands carefully before doing anything with the shrimp to get any moisturiser and perfume etc off before touching food or anything in or going in the tank.
I use an eheim ecco 130 but I don't think it is necessary. Are the temps rising in the tank with the hot weather as a lot of folk seem to be losing shrimp at the mo with high tank temps.
 
Hey Lindy

I've told my girlfriend no more aerosols in the same room, or to go the other side of room if she really has to. I've always told her to be careful but yeah you never can be to sure, and as the filter has no carbon at all it cant remove any containments. So I thought carbon may just make the water a bit better as its quite cheap on eBay.

I looked at the filter you mentioned its quite expensive for a 30 litre tank, I see loads of people using Eheim filters on there shrimp tanks, filters that are recommended for like 200 litre tanks. How do the shrimp not go flying everywhere? surely the water movement will be to much. I removed the spray bar of the Ebi filter to see how much the surface movement increased and the plants were swaying, baby shrimp were struggling to get a firm grip on the mosses so I put the spray bar back on. How do people work around this? do shrimp like a good amount of flow? Or do you somehow reduce the output? I cant see my girlfriend spending over £50 for a large filter, on such a small tank. Its a shame there is only a limited choice with small canister filters. USA seems to have a much bigger selection, even with HOB filters we seem to be limited over here.

I checked the temps last night, it was at 27c and its now on 26c which seems to be the norm, 25-26c... the heater is set to like 22c but I guess in the summer this is just room temperatures, even my main tank gets up to 28-29c at night.

Do you feed your shrimp a balanced diet? or you just stick to one food? we are using the Hikari shrimp cuisine, I'm not sure if offering them different foods may be something to try that might also help.
Another idea was to buy a bigger air pump, and a much bigger sponge filter, and with the Ebi stock filter, add some carbon to it, and just see how things go from there. Also maybe just doing 10-15% water changes.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Your tank is probably on the warm side. Lots of people on Facebook freshwatershrimp have been talking about the high temps and losing shrimp. I feed lots of different things, genchem biomax, hikari, genchem white pellet, super bacteria bee max and nettle leaves.
You can buy or make hmf type filters using a jetlift pipe and foam. They are noisy though. Adding an airstone would help them cope with higher temps.
 
I've never had a problem with too much flow. The shrimp seem to cope. The flow is adjustable though and I use home made acrylic spraybars so probably have bigger holes in my spraybar to lessen the jet effect.
 
My cherry shrimp did fine last summer in around 29-30C and this year a bit cooler at around 27-28C. They did fine also in my non heated small tank at 20-22C during the winter. Cherries have no problem with temperature as long as its gradual. And shrimp love flow and well oxygenated tank. They are quite funny staying where filters blow looking like having shimmies lol but insisting to stay around there swayed by the current if there's something tasty to munch on 🙂 I honestly never fed the cherries any shrimp food but I feed the fish high quality pellets so that's what the shrimp get too, plus veggies occasionally and whatever I think of from the fridge.
And as I said before, 50% water changes never killed one cherry shrimp for me but tank and tap is essentially the same. The TDS varies because of build up of nitrates and other stuff but not by much.

If the deaths are occurring after a water change, maybe you are having swings in the stats. Why are you topping up with RO water? You are essentially softening up the water, regardless that your TDS stays the same. Then when you do your water change with remineralized RO water, it just isn't the same water because its made of different minerals to achieve the same TDS.
Tank water if not changed actually naturally gets acidic, then a bit of RO to make it even more acidic, then one does a water change with water which is essentially harder, so possibly that can be an issue.
 
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