Basic setup for planted tank newbie

[toopstar]

Hi
Im new to the forum, but have been hovering in the background reading lots of the posts over the last month or so before finally registering today.

I have kept fish for many years(30+) mostly mixed community, more recently a reef tank for approx 3 yrs, but i gave this up a year or so ago because although it was succesful it was sadly becoming way too expensive to run, plus labour intensive to keep in order! I continued to run a freshwater community along with the reef tank and it is this i now wish to turn into a planted aquarium, of sorts!

The tank is 36x15x18 currently with 1x T8 lamp but i have a twin T5 39w unit to replace it, the filter is currently an Eheim classic 2215 plus a very old Fluval external (the label has worn away, so not sure what it is 😵 ) which has been running pretty much 24/7 for the last 25yrs! I havnt decided yet wether to continue with these two or buy a new higher powered Eheim Professional 3 350.
Substrate will be a mixture of small smooth gravel and sand, with maybe just pure sand out front, plus some rock and a nice piece of bogwood.
lighting as above with appropriate tubes and reflectors.
No Co2, but will be adding ferts (root tabs and into the water column) as required and water change's i usually do every two weeks and is RO with DI filtered, im in South London and the tap water is shite, or rather full of shite!
I like my fish, so want to keep most of them but also would like a lot more plants in there as well, currently i have some crypts which do ok, but as you can imagine not much else survives for long.
Fish are currently a mixture of tetras, small to farely large 16 in total, Corys x 8, Ancistrus(this will probably be going) and an adult Synodontis Eupterus, I will be adding 8 or so Otocinclus to the mix as well.
I intend to use Seachem Equilibrium for all water changes but i believe i may also need some form of buffer as well, is that correct?
Ferts i will probably go for TNC Lite, or maybe Complete? im unsure as to wether a product such as 'EasyCarbo' will be required, if at all?
Plants initially will be a mix of Crypts, Anubias, Vallis, Bacopa, Ludwigia, Hygrophila Polysperma and a single amazon sword.

I know my way round a fish tank but a properly planted tank seems to be a whole new ball game, atleast if its to be done with any success, im used to trying to remove as much as possible from my aquarium water (especially the marine) but now it appears i should probably be chucking much of it back in!

Any advice/comments/warnings gratefully recieved

 

[ceg4048]

Hello,
You really need to decide whether you intend to run the tank Low Tech, i.e. Non-CO2 enriched or whether you want High Tech, i.e. CO2 enriched. You cannot mix both concepts very easily, if at all. Therefore, the choices that you make in terms of equipment and maintenance practices will depend fundamentally on your intent.

In a Non-CO2 environment the rule is, well, no external addition of CO2. This means no gas (whether produced organically or inorganically) and no Liquid carbon products such as Excel or Easycarbo. Therefore EasyCarbo does not count as a fertilizer, it counts as CO2. Non-CO2 tanks generally have slower growth rates and therefore generally lower maintenance requirements. This also necessarily means that the lighting energy over the tank should be kept low. This generally rules out high energy lighting such as banks of T5, halides or massive LED groups.

In a CO2 enriched scenario the rules are a little different. CO2 enrichment means that the plants are able to absorb and make use of higher energy light levels, but this brings with it a penalty of higher maintenance, higher cost and higher rates of deterioration if attention is not paid to the details. Higher flow rates from filters and supplemental pumps are usually a necessity. More frequent water changes are usually necessary, and of course, higher nutrient requirements are associated with CO2 enriched tanks.

All the plants you listed will adapt well to either method, however, as I mentioned, in a non-CO2 tank the growth rates will be slower. None of those listed will care about what kind of water you use, so base your water choice on what you want for your fish.

Cheers,

 

[Guest]

I have kept fish for many years(30+) mostly mixed community, more recently a reef tank for approx 3 yrs, but i gave this up a year or so ago because although it was succesful it was sadly becoming way too expensive to run, plus labour intensive to keep in order! I continued to run a freshwater community along with the reef tank and it is this i now wish to turn into a planted aquarium, of sorts!

Hi if it's relatively low cost and low maintenance you are after it may help to check out either link below.

 

[sussex_cichlids]

Ive been aquascaping for 6 years over that 6 year learnt a lot the hard way
The biggest question you got to answer is what budget you planning your build on

The basics to consider

Tank size
Lighting
Substrate
Co2
Ferts

I had ago few years ago at planting a 600ltr that just went wrong from the start as didn't have a big enough budget to complete the tank

The bigger your tank the more it will cost you with main expense being substrate Ive just spent over £100 on substrate for 180ltr tank

I would plan you tank from start to finish to make sure it with your budget

 

[toopstar]

Hello,
You really need to decide whether you intend to run the tank Low Tech, i.e. Non-CO2 enriched or whether you want High Tech, i.e. CO2 enriched. You cannot mix both concepts very easily, if at all. Therefore, the choices that you make in terms of equipment and maintenance practices will depend fundamentally on your intent.

In a Non-CO2 environment the rule is, well, no external addition of CO2. This means no gas (whether produced organically or inorganically) and no Liquid carbon products such as Excel or Easycarbo. Therefore EasyCarbo does not count as a fertilizer, it counts as CO2. Non-CO2 tanks generally have slower growth rates and therefore generally lower maintenance requirements. This also necessarily means that the lighting energy over the tank should be kept low. This generally rules out high energy lighting such as banks of T5, halides or massive LED groups.

In a CO2 enriched scenario the rules are a little different. CO2 enrichment means that the plants are able to absorb and make use of higher energy light levels, but this brings with it a penalty of higher maintenance, higher cost and higher rates of deterioration if attention is not paid to the details. Higher flow rates from filters and supplemental pumps are usually a necessity. More frequent water changes are usually necessary, and of course, higher nutrient requirements are associated with CO2 enriched tanks.

All the plants you listed will adapt well to either method, however, as I mentioned, in a non-CO2 tank the growth rates will be slower. None of those listed will care about what kind of water you use, so base your water choice on what you want for your fish.

Cheers,

Thanks for your reply

I dont want to go down the CO2 route, not because of cost, i just want to keep things simple, the maintenance required to run a reef tank became a real chore so id rather stay low tech with this particular aquarium!

With regards the lighting, the hood is black so if i use the T5s without reflectors that should reduce the output by a fair percentage i would of thought?

The range of Ferts available is considerable, what brand (from sponsors only of course) would you recommend to use for a low tech setup, also in your opinion, would the waste from the fish and the fish food supply enough phosphate so as to negate its need to be in any fert i might use?

Thanks

 

[ceg4048]

Hi,
Yes, I totally understand the desire to keep things simple. Because you had mentioned the possibility of using EasyCarbo I wanted to ensure that you were aware that this meant complication, certainly not as much as have a pneumatic rig, but that it was kind of in the same category.

The same is true of the lighting. People (especially reef people) can't resist the urge to pummel their tanks with high photonic energy. I'm the same way (probably worse than most) but I understand that light causes algae and more light causes more algae. It is correct that removing the reflectors will reduce the intensity, but I'm sure you're aware that it is also true that T5 have a higher light intensity than T8. Plants do not really "need" high intensity. So I leave the choice to you...

It is true that there are a wide range of fert brands available. I thought about this and I realized that if you go to Tesco, you'll see an entire aisle dedicated to tea. The range of tea is enormous, but at the end of the day it's all the same tea, some with fruit or mint added, but basically the same stuff. This is also true of laundry detergent. I always get the shop brand because it's cheaper and I haven't been able to determine if the popular name brands actually clean my clothes any better than Tesco detergent - despite advertisement to the contrary. It turns out that fertilizers follow the same pattern. You'll find that some our sponsors have their shop brand which are much less expensive than the name brand, so for example check out page 1 of AquaEssential Fertilizers and you'll see their homebrew versions "AE Design Aqua Nourish" (trace element mix) and "AE Design Aquanourish+" (NPK). This is sold in liquid form but to get even better bang for buck, have a look at Sponsor AquariumPlantFoodUK and select their homebrew product "APF Plant Nutrition Bottle (DRY)".

The first set of products I list are sold in liquid form but the second is the dry powders where you just add water. Now, these are primarily sold with high tech in mind, but you won't need to dose nearly as much or as often as the data supplied indicates with these kits. If you use an inert substrate like sand then you can divide the dosing numbers by say, 5. If you use an enriched substrate or a soil substrate you may not need to dose at all or you can divide by 10. This low tech dosing strategy takes into account the waste from feeding and fish. Adding inorganic ferts such as these does help performance. Depending on where you live, the tap water may have enough nutrition so that using fertilizers is unnecessary. There are too many unknowns to say with accuracy, so it's better to start out dosing and then you can always withdraw the ferts to see how the plants respond.

Cheers,

 

[toopstar]

Hi,
Yes, I totally understand the desire to keep things simple. Because you had mentioned the possibility of using EasyCarbo I wanted to ensure that you were aware that this meant complication, certainly not as much as have a pneumatic rig, but that it was kind of in the same category.

The same is true of the lighting. People (especially reef people) can't resist the urge to pummel their tanks with high photonic energy. I'm the same way (probably worse than most) but I understand that light causes algae and more light causes more algae. It is correct that removing the reflectors will reduce the intensity, but I'm sure you're aware that it is also true that T5 have a higher light intensity than T8. Plants do not really "need" high intensity. So I leave the choice to you...

It is true that there are a wide range of fert brands available. I thought about this and I realized that if you go to Tesco, you'll see an entire aisle dedicated to tea. The range of tea is enormous, but at the end of the day it's all the same tea, some with fruit or mint added, but basically the same stuff. This is also true of laundry detergent. I always get the shop brand because it's cheaper and I haven't been able to determine if the popular name brands actually clean my clothes any better than Tesco detergent - despite advertisement to the contrary. It turns out that fertilizers follow the same pattern. You'll find that some our sponsors have their shop brand which are much less expensive than the name brand, so for example check out page 1 of AquaEssential Fertilizers and you'll see their homebrew versions "AE Design Aqua Nourish" (trace element mix) and "AE Design Aquanourish+" (NPK). This is sold in liquid form but to get even better bang for buck, have a look at Sponsor AquariumPlantFoodUK and select their homebrew product "APF Plant Nutrition Bottle (DRY)".

The first set of products I list are sold in liquid form but the second is the dry powders where you just add water. Now, these are primarily sold with high tech in mind, but you won't need to dose nearly as much or as often as the data supplied indicates with these kits. If you use an inert substrate like sand then you can divide the dosing numbers by say, 5. If you use an enriched substrate or a soil substrate you may not need to dose at all or you can divide by 10. This low tech dosing strategy takes into account the waste from feeding and fish. Adding inorganic ferts such as these does help performance. Depending on where you live, the tap water may have enough nutrition so that using fertilizers is unnecessary. There are too many unknowns to say with accuracy, so it's better to start out dosing and then you can always withdraw the ferts to see how the plants respond.

Cheers,

Thanks for that, much appreciated

Your right about the lighting and reef keepers, i always thought the more the better and just assumed it was the same for freshwater plants!

 

[johnjo]

Just stumbled upon this thread, really helpful advice that Ceg, cleared a couple of things up for me. Thanks.

 

[greenink]

My 75L journal has an exhaustive list of mistakes if that helps!

 

[johnjo]

Cheers mike I'll check it out.