Are Ottocinclus sensitive

[maverick786us]

I am planning to add a pair of Ottocinclus in my 2.5 month aquascape, as additional clean up crews Now what I read about Ottocinclus that they are bit sensitive compared to other algae eaters. Is it true? Do I really need Otto cats when I already have..
1. 4 Amano Shrimps
2. 3 Hillstream loach
3. 4 SAE
4. dozens of cherry shrimp and cherry barb?

 

[hypnogogia]

The require a very mature tank. Given what you have, you probably don’t need any.

 

[Teleos]

Do I really need Otto cats when I already have..
1. 4 Amano Shrimps
2. 3 Hillstream loach
3. 4 SAE
4. dozens of cherry shrimp and cherry barb?

I would say no. Wait another 3 or better 4 months. Ottos are best kept in an established tank. And you`re right. Ottocinclus are bit sensitive compared to other algae eaters. By the way. Ottos are "Aufwuchs" (biofilm) eaters. They are not really interested in algae, but they eat some of them.

 

[hypnogogia]

Ottos are "Aufwuchs" (biofilm) eaters.

Which is why they require a properly matured tank.

 

[Andy Pierce]

Is 89L big enough for 4 SAE? These get pretty large. My experience with ottos is that they can indeed by 'twitchy' but I think if you're 2.5 months in and all is good you could give them a go. You may hear they 'do better in large groups' but I'm not sure I believe it. At least for me they are quite solitary so I think you could try a small number of them (5 or 6) and see how you go. The only time I have seen them grouped up is under over-populated stressed-out conditions at the LFS - I think this is a panic response for them. I agree with the biofilm feeding observation - I haven't noticed the ottos eat algae as such (amanos are much better at this, particularly for stringy algae). That said, they are really cute and personable and worth having just on their own merits as a great little fish even without the algae eating component.

 

[hypnogogia]

Is 89L big enough for 4 SAE?

Yes, I’d agree, the tank is too small for 4 of these.

That said, they are really cute and personable and worth having just on their own merits

They’re lovely little fish and in my experience can live a long time. One of mine lived for almost 9 years.

 

[tam]

I would tend to say no. The tanks on the smaller side for them, they do better in groups (you are better getting them because you want a group as part of your stocking because you like them rather than a token one or two as 'clean up'), and they are going to be competing for food and territory with the hillstreams.

 

[bazz]

Is 89L big enough for 4 SAE?

Yes, I’d agree, the tank is too small for 4 of these.

I personally would say it is too small for one. I have recently had to move my one on from a 230l, as a 12cm fish in a 90cm tank is not a good ratio. I'm sure these fish ideally need at least a 1.2m tank, if not more. The MA in Notts has a tank with a good few of these which have out grown customers tanks, and they are enormous.

 

[maverick786us]

I personally would say it is too small for one. I have recently had to move my one on from a 230l, as a 12cm fish in a 90cm tank is not a good ratio. I'm sure these fish ideally need at least a 1.2m tank, if not more. The MA in Notts has a tank with a good few of these which have out grown customers tanks, and they are enormous.

I will move them to 55 gallon

 

[maverick786us]

I would tend to say no. The tanks on the smaller side for them, they do better in groups (you are better getting them because you want a group as part of your stocking because you like them rather than a token one or two as 'clean up'), and they are going to be competing for food and territory with the hillstreams.

How is 89L small for Ottocinclus when they are the smallest of all algae eaters

 

[FrozenShivers]

How is 89L small for Ottocinclus when they are the smallest of all algae eaters

They are talking about Siamese Algae Eaters, not Ottocinclus. As previously mentioned, Otto's are for established tanks, I would always put them in later than earlier to be safe.

 

[maverick786us]

Thank you, I will wait. Bit off the topic what’s the definition of a matured tank. I thought 2.5 months is an established tank.

 

[Conort2]

I personally would say it is too small for one. I have recently had to move my one on from a 230l, as a 12cm fish in a 90cm tank is not a good ratio. I'm sure these fish ideally need at least a 1.2m tank, if not more. The MA in Notts has a tank with a good few of these which have out grown customers tanks, and they are enormous.

Definitely too small, they get to around 6 inches and can fly around a tank. They also don’t care for algae once fully grown.

 

[hypnogogia]

Bit off the topic what’s the definition of a matured tank.

One that has lots of biofilm upon which Otos feed. I’ve always waited about 6 months before introducing fish that need a mature tank.

 

[Onoma1]

There is a useful thread here on Ottos:
Thread 'Some notes on Otocinclus' Some notes on Otocinclus

In short the collective wisdom of the thread was:

The don't change their dietary preferences with age.
They do need to be kept in larger groups (1 or 2 together isn't healthy). In the wild they are groups of thousands.
You will need to provide supplemental food after they have exhausted the food in your tank.
If you add food (and they eat it) you could add them now, however, this is a bit self defeating.
The larger the tank the better. Yours is too small
They don't grow significantly. If you see a monster 'Otto' then it's probably another species. They do have a very, very large subspecies, however, they are rare and expensive.

My final point would be a number of other fish are confused with Ottos including the Siamese Flying Fox (Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus / Crossocheilus siamensis). You also have Crossocheilus Oblongus the Siamese Algae Eater. The natural language naming of these three seems a bit confused! These three fish do have different needs to Ottos.

My final final point would be (and this is just a personal view) its less faff and much better to use a clean up crew of snails, shrimp, and the duckweed index to help you manage your tank. Keep Ottos only because you like them and the algae eating is a added bonus.

​

 

[maverick786us]

Thank you, I think have enough reasons not to go for Ottocinclus Cat. It’s one of the favorite slogan of MJ Aquascape that “Ottocinclus Cat and Amano Shrimps are the best clean up crews”. I already have 4 XL sized Amano Shrimp and 2 juvenile Amano shrimps. I thought that Ottocinclus Cats might clean small detail portions of plants and hard scape that other clean up crews miss or skip.

 

[tam]

How is 89L small for Ottocinclus when they are the smallest of all algae eaters

I know you've decided against anyway, but I just wanted to explain... although they are small they can move rapidly. When they are happy and part of a group they can be have occasions of being quite active shoaling around the tank/up and down the glass and if they are startled they make very rapid get aways and will crash into the glass if the tank is too short. I realised this after trying to keep a small shoal of 6 in a tank a similar size to yours - I'd now say a 3' (150l+) is more appropriate as an absolute minimum.

Most people know that neons, for example, should be keep as a shoal, but otocinclus get the short straw because they are useful so people want them to clean up but don't want to dedicate space to having a big group. When they are incorrectly kept as 1-2 fish they often don't display normal behaviour - a sign their welfare is compromised.

 

[maverick786us]

I know you've decided against anyway, but I just wanted to explain... although they are small they can move rapidly. When they are happy and part of a group they can be have occasions of being quite active shoaling around the tank/up and down the glass and if they are startled they make very rapid get aways and will crash into the glass if the tank is too short. I realised this after trying to keep a small shoal of 6 in a tank a similar size to yours - I'd now say a 3' (150l+) is more appropriate as an absolute minimum.

Most people know that neons, for example, should be keep as a shoal, but otocinclus get the short straw because they are useful so people want them to clean up but don't want to dedicate space to having a big group. When they are incorrectly kept as 1-2 fish they often don't display normal behaviour - a sign their welfare is compromised.

I never felt the need of Ottocinclus cats, in fact I was bit against buying them because of the price. I regularly watch MJ on YT and most of the time he mentions that Ottocinclus cat and Amano shrimps are the best clean up crews.Based on that comment I thought that Ottocinclus cat because of its small size is good at covering each and every detail that big algae eaters leave.

To my the clean up crews are as good as any other pet fish. I don't keep them for mere cleaning purpose. In fact my favorite fish is Reticulated Hillstream Loach an algae eater. It looks cute and a miniature version of stingray. To my clean up crews I feed algae pallets, brine shrimps and sinking pallets that contains bit of spicy garlic flavor. I have read that hillstream loach is primarily an algae eater. But it cannot solely survive on algae, thats why I bought brine shrimp tablets and other food supplements. But it doesn't like it much, while other clean up crews are crazy for it.