Any advice on how to fix algae and poor growth?

[neofy705]

Hello all,

I'm struggling with some type of hair/fuzz algae that seems to be very aggressive in its growth. It attacks new growth within a day even in fast growing stem plants.
There's no specific area of algae growth, everything is affected, from the substrate to near the surface.
Some plants don't grow as expected. Especially the Alternathera.

My thoughts are:
1) Low plant mass - or not enough fast growing plants
2) Depleted soil - inadequate fertilisation
3) Loads of fish - too much waste
4) Accumulation of detritus in soil due to not gravel vacuuming - loads of shrimplets hiding in soil/hair grass
5) High phosphate/nitrate levels - API nitrate test kit shows red 40-80. Tetra phosphate strip shows 1ppm. Values taken with a pinch of salt.

Plan of action:
1) Ordered fast growing plants - hygrophila corymbosa and red root floaters
2) Reduce photoperiod to 6 hours
3) Ordered nerite snails
4) Decreased TNC Complete dose. Increase TNC Lite dose (same as Complete without NPK)

Any advice?

More info:
I'm dosing "EI" levels of TNC complete and Lite (I know it's not really close to EI).
I run in-line CO2 (ignore drop checker in photo the liquid was just replaced during maintenance), the colour turns yellow.

The soil is Tropica (which admittedly is probably depleted as it's 2 years old - re used from previous scape).
The flow seems adequate, I even tried to reduce it by replacing the lily pipe to a neo reliever as with the lily pipe there was too much movement and excess algae in the high flow areas.

Tank info:
AquaSys 230 -close to 250L
Filter Fluval 407 (only coarse sponges in prefiltering section - rest is full of Matrix)
Light: Chihiros WRGB 2 Pro set at R90 G50 B95 W0
Ph= 6.3 (at lights on) - 7.1 (right before lights on)
Tap water: KH=0, GH=3. Remineralised with Seachem Equilibirium and KH Plus to KH=3 and GH=6.
TDS in tank= 300ppm after wc and 400 before wc (values using 0.67 factor)
Livestock- 15 rummynose, 12 ruby tetras, 5 otos, 2 honey gouramis, 4 guppies, 5 hillstream loaches, 10 corydoras, 7 amanos, 50 cherry shrimps
Maintenance: 50% wc weekly

 

[castle]

Hey! Your aquarium looks really nice 👍 to be honest I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong. Maybe nitrogen is a little low?

As for the algae, I doubt photo period is the cause, and depleted soil shouldn’t be causing this either? You may have introduced a lot of dormant algae spores from your old tank with the substrate? 🤷‍♂️ but I really don’t know what causes algae.

I would add another ~18 amanos, probably some snails too. I’d get some frogbit on the go too. I’d keep lights running at whatever you had, reduce intensity a bit?

 

[Zeus.]

You have done the obvious photo period and I would reduce intensity to 50% max.
From the pic there seems to be low surface agitation, which makes getting a stable pH drop difficult, do the plants wave about in the flow in the tank?
The output of the filter is 1450lph which is a tad low for the size of tank and will be compounded by all that matrix, I would remove the matrix (or most of it) and see how that helps the flow/surface agitation. I would suspect the pH/[CO2] is fluctuating during the photo period - have you done a pH profile.
Adding some Amamos and RCS will help keep the algae under control also, also snails, every planted tanks needs a cleanup crew

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'm struggling with some type of hair/fuzz algae

It isn't a nutrient deficiency symptom, the green algae (Chlorophyta) have the same <"basic physiology and photosystems"> as all the mosses, ferns and higher plants (clade Chlorobionta). I would regard them as all <"plants">, you just have "plants you want" and "plants you don't want".

that seems to be very aggressive in its growth. It attacks new growth within a day even in fast growing stem plants.

So that probably is a nutrient effect and just suggests that <"nutrients are non-limiting">.

I would add another ~18 amanos, probably some snails too. I’d get some frogbit on the go too.

Adding some Amamos and RCS will help keep the algae under control also, also snails, every planted tanks needs a cleanup crew

Sound advice.


I'm really enjoying the play of light on the green algae, but it does suggest that light intensity may be a bit intense?

cheers Darrel

 

[neofy705]

You have done the obvious photo period and I would reduce intensity to 50% max.
From the pic there seems to be low surface agitation, which makes getting a stable pH drop difficult, do the plants wave about in the flow in the tank?
The output of the filter is 1450lph which is a tad low for the size of tank and will be compounded by all that matrix, I would remove the matrix (or most of it) and see how that helps the flow/surface agitation. I would suspect the pH/[CO2] is fluctuating during the photo period - have you done a pH profile.
Adding some Amamos and RCS will help keep the algae under control also, also snails, every planted tanks needs a cleanup crew

Hi Zeus thanks for your input.
Photoperiod was 8h before I reduced it to 6h a few days ago . The tank is 53cm deep. If I reduce intensity to 50% won't it be an issue for lower plants?

All the plants do wave gently and I can see the co2 micro-bubbles allover the tank. I can replace the neo reliever with a lily pipe but that makes surface agitation too high for my floating plants. I was hoping the mini skimmer would help with oxygenation. I have means of increasing flow (I have a spare fluval 307 and a wavemaker) but seeing algae growing everywhere in aquarium and not low flow areas makes me thing there's a bigger underlying problem.

I have noticed since replacing the lily pipe with a reliever that the ph in the morning only goes up by 0.3 and drop checker is still lime green.
I have calibrated my apera ph meter yesterday to do a ph profiling. Would it be sensible to put some water in a glass and give it 24h to degas to measure the baseline ph?

I got amanos and rcs. Snails arriving today. I honestly think that even 50 amanos won't be able to catch up with this algae.

Cheers,
Neo

 

[neofy705]

Hi Darrel,
Nice to have your input again. You have really helped me in my previous scape. Thank you!

By "nutrients are non-limiting" do you mean that they might even be in excess?
All plants in my new scape were moved over from the one in the photo above. Puzzling how with same light, largely same equipment and same ferts the alternanthera went from a lush bushy plant to whatever it is in the new scape.

Maybe the key is the there and there is some nutrient deficiency?

Thank you,
Neo

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Snails arriving today. I honestly think that even 50 amanos won't be able to catch up with this algae.

Nerites don't tend to graze plant leaves very effectively, but they are <"good on hard scape"> etc..

Snails like <"Physella acuta"> & Planorbella duryi are more effective at getting to "difficult to reach" places <"Algea id, root of cause and how to deal">. People don't like Tadpole and Ramshorn snails because they can <"reproduce in your tank">, but I look on that as an <"unalloyed good thing">.

By "nutrients are non-limiting" do you mean that they might even be in excess?

Yes, it is a distinct possibility. Because of the rapid growth of the green algae? I'd guess that they probably are.

All plants in my new scape were moved over from the one in the photo above. Puzzling how with same light, largely same equipment and same ferts the alternanthera went from a lush bushy plant to whatever it is in the new scape.

This is <"the problem really">, we are dealing with a multifactorial ecosystem, where everything is <"shades of grey">. I'm going to guess that things will improve with time, but I don't know the time scale.

Basically yes, <"good things come to those who wait">. I'm a great believer in <"plants and time"> being the answer.

Can we have a photo of your floating plant? This is partially because I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, but also because <"they aren't CO2 limited">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Zeus.]

Move the DC or add another to bottom of tank - you may find you dont get the same colour change. I use to check my pH with a probe at various depths and places in tank to check the the pH drop was even in my 50cm deep tank.

Having floating plants in a high tech tank with 50cm depth is a challenge IMO.

In the words of @ceg4048 our CO2 guru, Flow is King of the CO2 enriched tank, insufficient flow leads to fluctuating in [CO2] during initial/main stages of photo period, plants dont fair as well and algae outcompetes them. Having plants growing well with a stable pH for first 4 -5 hours of photo period helps keep plants growing well without wasting energy adjusting to the changing [CO2]

 

[neofy705]

Hi all,

Nerites don't tend to graze plant leaves very effectively, but they are <"good on hard scape"> etc..

.... People don't like Tadpole and Ramshorn snails because they can <"reproduce in your tank">, but I look on that as an <"unalloyed good thing">.

Yes, it is a distinct possibility. Because of the rapid growth of the green algae? I'd guess that they probably are.

Can we have a photo of your floating plant? This is partially because I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, but also because <"they aren't CO2 limited">.

cheers Darrel

Oh I have loads of bladder snails... whether I like it or not. And a massive pond snail. I might actually source some larger ramshorns.

I added some nerites today.

Here's some photos of my floating plants. I added some in-vitro red root floaters today after I took the photos.

 

[ElleDee]

I think you've gotten some good advice, but I would add in some big water changes and clean your substrate throughly to get rid of as many dissolved organics as possible. You don't need to plunge your siphon deep into the substrate to do this, check out Dennis Wong's turkey baster technique for a more gentle way to get detritus. If you are really worried about sucking up shrimp you can siphon into a bucket, wait until the waste water settles out, and net them back into the tank. Do this as often as you have time for.

Don't look at any one piece of advice as a silver bullet - in my experience you need to bring multiple things into balance to win the war, so go after you CO2 and flow, and add plant mass, and clean your tank, etc. You will know you are turning the tide once your new growth starts outpacing the algae and you can focus on pruning out the gross old growth.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Here's some photos of my floating plants.

They look <"OK growthwise">, but I can't really <"tell how green they are"> because of the light colour.

cheers Darrel

 

[neofy705]

Move the DC or add another to bottom of tank - you may find you dont get the same colour change. I use to check my pH with a probe at various depths and places in tank to check the the pH drop was even in my 50cm deep tank.

Having floating plants in a high tech tank with 50cm depth is a challenge IMO.

In the words of @ceg4048 our CO2 guru, Flow is King of the CO2 enriched tank, insufficient flow leads to fluctuating in [CO2] during initial/main stages of photo period, plants dont fair as well and algae outcompetes them. Having plants growing well with a stable pH for first 4 -5 hours of photo period helps keep plants growing well without wasting energy adjusting to the changing [CO2]

Thank you Zeus. I'm a bit puzzled with the pH situation in my tank. I think Co2 is too high. Moving the DC to the "worst case scenario" location and it's still lime green to yellow. I let a glass of tank water degas for 24h and the pH was 7.8-8!
Right before the co2 is on the pH is 6.8 and the drop checker is lime green. Then subsequently drops to 6.3 when the lights turn on (after 2.5h hours). It's fairly stable throughout. Livestock is fine but why is my pH so low?
Should I increase surface agitation or just reduce my co2? Or both?

 

[neofy705]

Hi all,

They look <"OK growthwise">, but I can't really <"tell how green they are"> because of the light colour.

cheers Darrel

Is this photo more helpful Darrel?

 

[Zeus.]

Should I increase surface agitation

Good surface agitation and good flow in tank are key to CO2 injection, some folk do get away with low flow and limited surface agitation as it is very tank setup and plant/planting dependant also.
But when things are not quite right it would always be the first thing to consider in a CO2 injected tank IMO/IME
Too much flow and surface aggition uses more CO2 and fish get more exercise.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Is this photo more helpful Darrel?

They definitely look a bit pale, but that might just be the light "washing out" the colour in the photo?

If they really are pale green? You could try going back to a "complete mix" and see if <"they green up any">?

cheers Darrel

 

[neofy705]

Hi all,

They definitely look a bit pale, but that might just be the light "washing out" the colour in the photo?

If they really are pale green? You could try going back to a "complete mix" and see if <"they green up any">?

cheers Darrel

They look exactly like in the photo. I slightly increased the ferts again but I think it made algae worse.

 

[neofy705]

I have done 2 60% water changes while vacuuming the substrate. The water was disgusting to say the least. I did a heavy trim and the tank looked good again. For a few days. Then it kind of bounced back again.
I added 8 more amanos, 13 nerites, a large ramshorn and 4 more otos.
The hardscape is much better but the leaves of all plants are getting covered. It is a bit slower than before in the sense that some new growth stays algae free for a couple of days.

 

[neofy705]

Nerite are just amazing for cleaning hardscape. I can clearly see where that snail's been.
P. S. I saw these the other day at my LFS. I have never seen them before. They LFS didn't know what they are either. Apparently they are called pumpkin nerites or pink lady nerites (fitting name as they are the exact same colour). After some research (to be taken with a pinch of salt) they are clithon sowerianum.

 

[Tim Harrison]

Sounds like your CO2 is fairly well optimised. But stay on top of it and make sure you can rule that out as a potential factor.

All plants in my new scape were moved over from the one in the photo above. Puzzling how with same light, largely same equipment and same ferts the alternanthera went from a lush bushy plant to whatever it is in the new scape.

The reason, the new tank is relatively immature and missing an essential component to stability; a balanced microbial community throughout the entire system. This helps with plant nutrition, especially in the rhizosphere, and algae control. Your plants will also need time to adjust.

In this instance, the 8hr photoperiod and intensity would have been enough to tip the balance in favour of algae. Reducing the photoperiod to 6hrs is a good start. Reducing the intensity is also a good idea, you're the best judge as to how much would be appropriate.

However, fuzz algae isn't necessarily light dependent but more likely to be dependent on the lack of nutrients, the colour of the floaters and slow growth would seem to corroborate this. In this case your plants will leak nutrients which will attract the algae, hence the reason they're covered. I would think about increasing the dose to EI levels along with the recommended frequent and substantial water changes. You can always back off later once the plants are growing well and the algae is under control.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

They look exactly like in the photo.

They are definitely a bit deficient in something, the problem is working out what the <"something"> is.

The reason, the new tank is relatively immature and missing an essential component to stability; a balanced microbial community throughout the entire system. This helps with plant nutrition, especially in the rhizosphere, and algae control. Your plants will also need time to adjust.

I think this as well. Time is a great <"healer">.

I slightly increased the ferts again but I think it made algae worse

I'd probably look on increased algal growth as a good sign, both <"green algae and aquariums plants"> are fundamentally "plants".

cheers Darrel