Amazon Swords Advice

[Fluxtor]

Hi All. I've noticed older leaves on some amazon swords looking very poor with lots of holes. The new growth looks okay but the older leaves are not looking so great. The plants in general are not looking as dense as they used to so wondering if something is going on? There has been a recent Blue Phantom Pleco addition to the tank and the shrimp population is exploding so maybe these are the culprits or could it be a nutrient deficiency?

For information this is a 230l low tech tank with no C02 injection, filter is a Biomaster Thermal 600. Lights is a Twinstar 60B at 100% I think and is on for 11hrs with a 30 minute ramp up/down.

The substrate is Fluval Stratum which has been in the tank for over a year but root tabs have been added on occasions with the last going in at the end of October last year! There was a short period where the filter was not well maintained so the flow was somewhat reduced but that has been rectified and this was only for a week or two!

See the picture taken today for reference.

 

[bazz]

At first sight to me that looks like Pleco/Bristlenose damage, do you have any of these in your aquarium?

 

[Fluxtor]

At first sight to me that looks like Pleco/Bristlenose damage, do you have any of these in your aquarium?

There has been a recent Blue Phantom Pleco addition to the tank

🙂

 

[Fluxtor]

This is the swords just before Christmas.

 

[Wookii]

The substrate is Fluval Stratum which has been in the tank for over a year but root tabs have been added on occasions

What liquid ferts are you dosing?

 

[Fluxtor]

For a comparison see these pictures. First from November last year and second from now.

 

[Fluxtor]

What liquid ferts are you dosing?

Ferts are TNC Lite and dosing 3ml daily

 

[Wookii]

Ferts are TNC Lite and dosing 3ml daily

I suspect thats the problem then. TNC Lite contains no nitrogen or phosphorous. Both are essential macro nutrients for your plants, and without them they'll starve and die as you are seeing.

I'd recommend you switch to TNC complete as soon as possible, and I imagine you'll see a decent turn around in your plants. As you see new leaves starting to push through, you can start removing the older deficient ones.

 

[Fluxtor]

I suspect thats the problem then. TNC Lite contains no nitrogen or phosphorous. Both are essential macro nutrients for your plants, and without them they'll starve and die as you are seeing.

I'd recommend you switch to TNC complete as soon as possible, and I imagine you'll see a decent turn around in your plants. As you see new leaves starting to push through, you can start removing the older deficient ones.

The tank is relatively well stocked so would that not provide the macros?

1 gold ram, 13 rummy, 7 black phantom, 6 panda, 4 julii, 1 blue phantom, 3 SAE and a gazillion shrimp and a few nerites.

There is healthy new growth which is what's confusing!

 

[Wookii]

The tank is relatively well stocked so would that not provide the macros?

Nope, not at all. Hence the decline in the plants between your two photos.

There is healthy new growth which is what's confusing!

This could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Nitrogen and phosphorous are mobile within plants, so they may be attempting to divert whatever small amounts that have access to from older leaves to try and produce new ones.

I imagine once you start adding some nitrogen and phosphorous, they'll starting putting out a load of new leaves.

 

[Connswater]

once you start adding some nitrogen and phosphorous

I too think the plants are starved of key macro nutrients.
I would make sure there is plenty of accessible iron as well, hard water area, in my experience, a long time ago, swords when growing well are greedy for light and all nutrients and in hard water do much better with a regular sequestered iron feed.
Plants utilising bicarbonate need lots of light energy and a good supply of nutrients.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

At first sight to me that looks like Pleco/Bristlenose damage,

This could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Nitrogen and phosphorous are mobile within plants, so they may be attempting to divert whatever small amounts that have access to from older leaves to try and produce new ones.

I'm going to guess both of those as reasons.

cheers Darrel

 

[Fluxtor]

Thanks all for your input! Will look into getting some TNC Complete and consider Iron too! Should I consider iron as a separate dose? Both TNC lite and Complete contain 0.08% FE.

 

[Wookii]

Thanks all for your input! Will look into getting some TNC Complete and consider Iron too! Should I consider iron as a separate dose? Both TNC lite and Complete contain 0.08% FE.

As you are already dosing daily, I'd just try the TNC Complete first, as the plants get a fresh go at grabbing some iron on a daily basis. If you get good new growth, but new leaves are showing chlorosis further down the line, then you can consider adding in a small dose of TNC Iron which is DTPA chelated, and lasts longer in harder water that typically has a higher pH, than the EDTA chelated iron included in Complete and Lite.

If you can also dose during the dark period (if you are not already doing so) prior to lights on (an hour or two before), it gives plants time to access the iron before any photodegradation occurs also.

 

[Connswater]

Both TNC lite and Complete contain 0.08% FE

Good question, someone with a more scientific background than my good self should be able to say categorically, but in hard water as in an alkaline garden sequestered iron is important - when I use a fertiliser for water column fertilisation it normally has 0.2 which is a lot more than 0.08 (my main tank is only moderately hard, I cut the tap water with rain water from around 16 KH to between 8 and 10) and in fact I have another brand on my shelf, just checked and it 0.5. I have never measured iron in the water of the tank, but I suspect you want around 0.2 in the water itself. Decided to check Tom Barr's website:
Chelated Iron

• 0.0-0.25 mg/l = Iron level is low
• 0.25-0.5 mg/ = Ideal level of iron in water

 

[Fluxtor]

As you are already dosing daily, I'd just try the TNC Complete first, as the plants get a fresh go at grabbing some iron on a daily basis. If you get good new growth, but new leaves are showing chlorosis further down the line, then you can consider adding in a small dose of TNC Iron which is DTPA chelated, and lasts longer in harder water that typically has a higher pH, than the EDTA chelated iron included in Complete and Lite.

If you can also dose during the dark period (if you are not already doing so) prior to lights on (an hour or two before), it gives plants time to access the iron before any photodegradation occurs also.

Good question, someone with a more scientific background than my good self should be able to say categorically, but in hard water as in an alkaline garden sequestered iron is important - when I use a fertiliser for water column fertilisation it normally has 0.2 which is a lot more than 0.08 (my main tank is only moderately hard, I cut the tap water with rain water from around 16 KH to between 8 and 10) and in fact I have another brand on my shelf, just checked and it 0.5. I have never measured iron in the water of the tank, but I suspect you want around 0.2 in the water itself. Decided to check Tom Barr's website:
Chelated Iron

• 0.0-0.25 mg/l = Iron level is low
• 0.25-0.5 mg/ = Ideal level of iron in water

Thanks guys, very informative!

 

[Fluxtor]

Just a thought but would it be worth adding some more root tabs to the substrate? I would imagine being over 12 months old it's pretty much inert now? If so, recommendations?

 

[Wookii]

Just a thought but would it be worth adding some more root tabs to the substrate? I would imagine being over 12 months old it's pretty much inert now? If so, recommendations?

Some may disagree with me, but I would say no. Most root tabs end up just leaching into the water column anyway, at an uncontrolled release rate. Also many don't contain nitrogen and/or phosphorous anyway.

All aquatic plants can absorb the required nutrients from the water column, so I would just use the liquid fertilizer so you can control the dosing into the tank.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

All aquatic plants can absorb the required nutrients from the water column, so I would just use the liquid fertilizer so you can control the dosing into the tank.

We have a thread <"Root tab ingredients?">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Conort2]

I’d Chuck in some vegetables of a night too to try and keep the pleco away from the sword leaves. Courgette or sweet potato goes down well. You’ll need to use a tea spoon or something similar to make it sink.