Amano shrimp breeding project bis

[MichaelJ]

Looking good there @Hanuman! To your question about coverage; back in the day when I was running big tanks with big messy cichlids (very few plants bolted to rocks or wood) and under gravel filtration I always felt two filters would be necessary to provide enough coverage - the aluminum stands the tanks was sitting on actually allowed me to see how much gunk would accumulate at the bottom. Anyway, with the tank size (41L ?) your working with for your breeding project I think you might be OK with the Filtosmart 200, but it might be better if you could situate the inlet towards the center plate - like one plate to the left from where it is now.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

Anyway, with the tank size (41L) your working with for your breeding project I think you might be OK with the Filtosmart 200, but it might be better if you could situate the inlet towards the center plate - like one plate to the left from where it is now.

That's a 60x30x36 so technically a 60L tank but I won't be filling it all the way to the top so could be ~50L.
Good call on the lift tube position. The water being drowned down to the substrate might do so more evenly if located centrally. Good I have not added anything in the tank yet.

 

[Hanuman]

@MichaelJ Well following your wise comment I scrapped the full tank UGF idea. Adding that pipe at the back of the tank I don't like. Makes it painful for maintenance. Instead I'll just use two plates on the right side and add a transparent acrylic divider of ~12-15cm high glued with silicone to the tank. Not the most aesthetically thing but easier to maintain. Something like this (mockup):

 

[MichaelJ]

@MichaelJ Well following your wise comment I scrapped the full tank UGF. Adding that pipe at the back of the tank I don't like. Makes it painful for maintenance. Instead I'll just use two plates on the right side and add a transparent acrylic divider of ~12-15cm high glued with silicone to the tank. Not the most aesthetically thing but easier to maintain. Something like this (mockup):
View attachment 199743

Hi @Hanuman, I like what you did... Yes, for breeding projects ease of maintenance will have to take precedence over aesthetics. I am just a bit worried about coverage with only two plates if thats what you have in mind ? - maybe add two more plates ? for a tank of this size (50L net) with the Filtosmart 200 (rated for 50 Gallon/200L) it definitely should work. What type and thickness of gravel/substrate are you thinking btw. ?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

I am just a bit worried about coverage with only two plates if thats what you have in mind ? - maybe add two more plates ? for a tank of this size (50L net) with the Filtosmart 200 (rated for 50 Gallon/200L) it definitely should work. What type and thickness of gravel/substrate are you thinking btw. ?

Thickness would be around 10cm which would equate to around 3-4 liters of media in the UGF give or take which should be plenty enough. If I added 2 more plates I would need to decrease the thickness else not sure the canister would be able to pull water evenly all across. The rest of the tank will have a grain or 2 worth thickness of susbtrate just so that its not bare.
When I was going to do the full tank UGF I was planning around 3-4 cm of substrate all across.

 

[MichaelJ]

Thickness would be around 10cm which would equate to around 3-4 liters of media in the UGF give or take which should be plenty enough. If I added 2 more plates I would need to decrease the thickness else not sure the canister would be able to pull water evenly all across. The rest of the tank will have a grain or 2 worth thickness of susbtrate just so that its not bare.
When I was going to do the full tank UGF I was planning around 3-4 cm of substrate all across.

Hi @Hanuman. for the UGF area 10 cm sounds like a lot to me... 3-5 cm sounds better. The open surface (not covered with the UGF) can be almost bare (look horrible though) or just a super thin layer as you suggest.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

... for the UGF area 10 cm sounds like a lot to me... 3-5 cm sounds better.

A lot in what sense? These UGF are only for filtration purposes not for planting. In the other tank for the adult amanos each UGF box has roughly 8cm of substrate running with 2 mini air pumps each.

 

[MichaelJ]

A lot in what sense? These UGF are only for filtration purposes not for planting.

I know... but for filtration I would go with a somewhat thinner layer. 10 cm just sounds like a lot to me, but I might be wrong given that you have a pretty powerful canister to back it up.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MichaelJ]

When are you going to start introducing the adults?

Seems to me you have all the ducks in a row by now.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hanuman]

When are you going to start introducing the adults?

Seems to me you have all the ducks in a row by now.

Cheers,
Michael

Once the tank is fully cycled but I'm in no rush since the juvenile tank is not even set up. It's still leaching ammonia so could be a week or two. I had underestimated the time it takes. I guess I got used to jump starting my tanks with used soil and cycled canister. Usually cycle is done in matter of 5 or 6 days doing so.
With these shrimps tanks I didn't want to risk introducing planaria, trompet snails and potentially other pathogens so I had to start them from scratch using new soil. Even the plants I am using are bathed with a solution of potassium permanganate before adding them in the tank. All the equipment I am using in these smaller tanks are not shared with my bigger tank.

 

[Hanuman]

Adult shrimp tank (left) was modified to have a fixed UGF driven by 4 mini air pumps. I ended up scraping the UGF boxes. The more I thought of it, the more I grew concerned about the shrimps getting stuck between the boxes and the glass. I also put my Eheim 2215 to good use and added it to the setup. I have also incorporated some CO2, but minimally, to benefit the plants, specially the moss. High temperatures here will strip most CO2 from the water so I wanted to have a safety net. Soil is still spitting ammonia after 2 months. I think the UGF is largely responsible for this due to constant water flowing through the media.

Juvenile tank (right) was setup 2 weeks ago. I haven't tested ammonia. No point at this stage. It's full of it. Photoperiod set at 14h/day. The UGF is driven by an Oase FiltoSmart 200. There is an additional dual sponge driven by an air pump for increased filtration.

The salt tank for the zoes is on the extreme left. No need to set that up yet since I don't even have the adults yet. I also need to find a new supplier of phytoplankton because the one I had agreed to buy from decided they won't sell anymore.

So far the most annoying thing has been the mosquitos laying their larvae in the water and infesting our house. I am desperately waiting for that tank to cycle so I can add a guppy to take care of those suckers.

I know the cabinets need some tidying up. That shall be done soon.

 

[Hanuman]

Thought I would give some update. Not so exciting be here it goes.
Starting this project has taken much more time than I expected due to several reasons. One of them being that it took much longer to read ammonia = 0 in one of the tanks than what I was hopping for: 2 and half months! Also, the supplier of phytoplankton that I was going to purchase from is not selling anymore so I had to find a new one and I didn't want to continue with the project until I found a new one. That's done now.

Both tanks are now cycled and with plants and today I'll be introducing the bulk of the amanos shrimp in the adult tank. In the past month I have progressively added 2 guppies, 3-4 MTS and 3 neocaridina shrimps as guinea pigs to make sure tank is ready. I have also added 2 amanos from my main tank a week ago to make sure all is fine and they seem to be doing well.

This was 1 month ago (juvenile tank).

Diatoms have completely disappeared now and for some reason I have very little algae on the glass. I only scrape the front glass and I have never scraped the side panels. When you don't want algae, you get it. When you need it, it's not there 🧐. I will be removing the Indian almond leave from the juvenile tank as it is creating lots of debris.

 

[Hanuman]

The Gang has arrived. Bang will ensue.

 

[Hanuman]

The second supplier of marine phytoplankton is also now not wanting to sell anymore. Sigh. I am now stuck using non-viable phytoplankton and feeding daily. Something I really want to avoid since this is really cumbersome. I am pondering whether I should scrap the project all together. I can't seem to find anyone else in Thailand who sells these live phytoplankton. 😞

 

[Hanuman]

It seems the gods are on my side. I found a marine biology department at a university that is willing to send me some phytoplankton inoculum. Hopefully they won't backtrack too.

 

[Hanuman]

Well, this is becoming laughable. The said university department sent me an email today saying they are refusing to send me any inocolum when they had previously agreed. The search continuous!

So far none of the 2 or 3 females I have been able to identify are burried. I think both males and females are still too young. I see molts nearly on a daily basis though so this is a good sign that water parameters are fine overall. I am feeding them heavily with protein-rich food in an attempt to speed up growth.

Some pics to keep you entertained:

 

[Hanuman]

I found another source for the inoculum. Unfortunately they are asking me 150 USD for 100ml of Thalassiosira which I politely declined. Thalassiosira being a diatom would work for the initial stages but zoeae would probably need something else like Nannochloropsis or Tetraselmis as they grow. The search continues. Here is a picture of the complete setup in place since I never really posted that. The salt water tank has been running for already 3 weeks just in case I need it at some point. Light above the tank is normally turned off as I have no phytoplankton in it and none of the amanos are berried anyway. Empty jar on the left will be used once a female is berried and is ready to release the larvae.

 

[palcente]

I found another source for the inoculum. Unfortunately they are asking me 150 USD for 100ml of Thalassiosira which I politely declined. Thalassiosira being a diatom would work for the initial stages but zoeae would probably need something else like Nannochloropsis or Tetraselmis as they grow. The search continues. Here is a picture of the complete setup in place since I never really posted that. The salt water tank has been running for already 3 weeks just in case I need it at some point. Light above the tank is normally turned off as I have no phytoplankton in it and none of the amanos are berried anyway. Empty jar on the left will be used once a female is berried and is ready to release the larvae.
View attachment 204318

Are you anywhere near the actual sea ? If you can get some seawater, then that will have enough plankton to either feed it directly or make green water.
If that is not an option, you could get some marine algae online and zoeae should be able to feed of whatever comes with that.

Could really get your saltwater vessel going with light above it 24/7. It will start to grow all sort of stuff inside, brown slimy mess that zoeae find yummy

Matt

 

[Witcher]

Empty jar on the left will be used once a female is berried and is ready to release the larvae.

I think berried female should be kept in the tank on the right instead, approx 3 weeks after molting and being berried - this will give her approx 2 weeks to adapt and eggs (or rather larvae) will be released without any stress, so no premature birth really. The larvae will very likely stick to the filters sponge as they will search for food there (if not you can attract them to the single place using small spot light), so can be relatively easily moved to the salt water tank - I think 5-10 hours drip or swapping parts of water with the saline should be more than enough.

 

[Hanuman]

Are you anywhere near the actual sea ? If you can get some seawater, then that will have enough plankton to either feed it directly or make green water.

That was a consideration in the early stages when planning this project. Bangkok is not that far from the coast, but in all honesty, taking water from the sea is rather risky. Since my tank is not the sea and conditions are not ideal/balanced, I could be growing out pathogens or unwanted rotifers instead of actual algae, which I know there will be anyway. This could be problematic since rotifer feeds on algae. Still I would prefer to isolate 1-3 phytoplankton species.

If that is not an option, you could get some marine algae online and zoeae should be able to feed of whatever comes with that.

I am in Thailand, not Europe or USA where this can be found very easily. It is extremely difficult to find these inoculum in the market here. Trust me I have tried for the past 7 months and doors keep closing and no one wants to sell these live phytoplankton. Only one willing to do are selling non-viable ones which is basically the same as me feeding any other thing to the zoeae, so it would defy the purpose of feeding live food.

Could really get your saltwater vessel going with light above it 24/7. It will start to grow all sort of stuff inside, brown slimy mess that zoeae find yummy

Without any inoculum how would that be possible? With freshwater I can understand how as algae can come in tap water, but with salt water I am not so sure.

I think berried female should be kept in the tank on the right instead, approx 3 weeks after molting and being berried - this will give her approx 2 weeks to adapt and eggs (or rather larvae) will be released without any stress, so no premature birth really. The larvae will very likely stick to the filters sponge as they will search for food there (if not you can attract them to the single place using small spot light), so can be relatively easily moved to the salt water tank - I think 5-10 hours drip or swapping parts of water with the saline should be more than enough.

Maybe I was not clear. That jar is used at the really last stage just before the female releases its eggs, usually 14-16 days after molting and she is carrying eggs with visible eyes on them . This is a technic used by several amano breeders I have spoken with. You put the female in the jar with tank water at night and add an air stone to simulate fast water currents. This incites the female to drop all its eggs/larvea since it simulates the current generated by the rain and fast flows in their natural habitat. In fact that jar is probably a bit too big, one can use a mere 1.5L plastic water. In the morning all eggs/larvae should be dropped and one can put the female back in the tank. This method makes it easy to collect the zoeae. Also, I have 3 guppies in that tank for mosquito larvae prevention. If I left the amano release her eggs in the tank, I am pretty sure no zoeae would be left after a few hours.