Alternanthera reineckii Dying

[Diogo Reis]

Ok i will do this.
Im using like 8bps and i think that with this bps the fish were suppost to be asking for oxigen.. In a 200L tank what should be the bps? Around 5?

 

[parotet]

Ok i will do this.
Im using like 8bps and i think that with this bps the fish were suppost to be asking for oxigen.. In a 200L tank what should be the bps? Around 5?

Bps is not an accurate measure of co2 delivery to a tank because bubbles can be different in size. Additionally there is no rule for how many bps you need because you won't be injecting the same amount now that you have just a few plants than in a few months when the tank will be plenty of them. Think about CO2 as the most important food for your plants (if going the high light way). The more plants you have and the more they grow, the more co2 they need.

Other aspects will also be important: some injection methods are more efficient, flow will be also very relevant, also the kind of plants you have, the ph drop is harder to achieve with hard water thus more Co2 has to be injected to the tank...

Begin with whatever you think is good enough (good growth of plants, no fish suffocated) and try to fine tune it. Plants will tell you what is happening. Ph drop is also very useful if you have a pHmeter, although it is not strictly necessary.

If fish are needing oxygen as you mention, for sure there's something wrong. It can be an excess of gas but it is usually due to poor co2 execution, probably bad flow (distribution of co2).

Google 'ukaps + ph drop or ph readings' and you will find plenty of great info about co2 tips and related problems. This is IMO the most complex part of the game.

Jordi

Jordi

 

[Diogo Reis]

Yeah i know that the bps is not a standart number for a aquarium. But what ppl use to use on 200L aquarium? How many bps you use on yours, how many liters and how much flow you have? I just want to have an idea..
I'm waiting for a inlet atomizer and i will try it.

 

[sciencefiction]

Hi Guys,

My Alternanthera reineckii grew quite well untill recently when it started to loose leaves and go glassy.

Thought it was Iron deficiency but my seachem flourish fert has iron in it.

Included a photo.



Many Thanks
James

I am only guessing based on what I know. From this picture it looks like older leaves are damaged first. Which suggests it's a mobile nutrient deficiency. CO2, calcium and micros aren't mobile. So that leaves you with phosphorus. potassium, nitrate, magnesium..
Me personally, I'd start dosing extra of each of these four on top of current dosing, one at a time if you want to figure which one is the culprit. Give it a week or two for each testing and if still not ok, move on to the next nutrient.

 

[sciencefiction]

By the way, if you have any other pictures of the current state of the plant, add the pictures. Because I based all my comments on one picture only.

 

[parotet]

Yeah i know that the bps is not a standart number for a aquarium. But what ppl use to use on 200L aquarium? How many bps you use on yours, how many liters and how much flow you have? I just want to have an idea..
I'm waiting for a inlet atomizer and i will try it.

I am around 3 bps in 65 liters tank densely planted with stem plants and a spraybar. I inject co2 with an inline diffuser BUT... Don't try to multiply this for your 200ish liter tank (it is not a proportional ratio) because you will be killing your fish. As mention previously your injection rate will depend on a lot of parameters.

Jordi

 

[Diogo Reis]

Ok i understand..
One morr thing.. Can you check please what deficiency ammania bonsai have? Its the top of it... It have brown parts on the new leaves..

 

[sciencefiction]

This looks different. This now looks like a micro deficiency because it's on new growth.
Is this picture from different point of time? How is the other plant looking now? You may have solved one deficiency and bumped into another.
Are the plants planted in soil or do they rely on what you are dosing only in terms of nutrients? Do you have another tank to possibly test the plant in there.
.
Concentrate on what you are seeing right now on all plants affected. Is it new growth or old growth? In a week the picture maybe different because once you solve one thing intentionally or not, you can bump into a totally different problem but at the same point of time there's just one issue possible because the plants won't be able to grow to actually bump into another deficiency. So have a good look what are the plants like right now.
I've got low tech tanks. They respond to changes in a week or two max, so for a high tech they really should respond to changes way sooner than that.

 

[Diogo Reis]

This is now.
Alternanthera some plants are good and others aren't..
I have been dosing:
4tsp calcium
2tsp magnesium
1/2tsp kno3
1/16tsp potassium phospate
1/4 + 1/8 traces (a lot!)

I think that this should not be from traces because im putting really a lot!!

From tomorow i will put:
1/2tsp kno3
1/16tsp potassium phospate
1/8 tsp traces

I dont have other aquarium

This substrate is inert(dont have nutrients).

 

[Diogo Reis]

In this moment(the end of the week) i have:
Kh 3
Gh 8
Ph 7,5(lights off)

 

[sciencefiction]

OK, so when you dose traces, can you dose them around the affected plant, like nearly on top of them..Do the plants respond even for a couple of days or nothing happens? Do they try to grow at all after the dose even if it's one leaf?
Do the traces have Boron?
Is there any possibility of placing some plants in natural soil? That will tell you if its a nutrient issue. You can even put it on the window sill if sunny enough with some dechlorinated tap water, in clear container.

Alternanthera some plants are good and others aren't..

What kind of damage do you see and where on the plant? Old or new growth? Does that change over the course of week or two?

 

[Diogo Reis]

This is one part. later i will send other part of the aquarium.

 

[Diogo Reis]

Also the plants on the left front, this one:

The down part is much darker that the top...

The ammania bonsai even the new stems that it created they are the same way...

 

[Diogo Reis]

OK, so when you dose traces, can you dose them around the affected plant, like nearly on top of them..Do the plants respond even for a couple of days or nothing happens?

After the 3x 1/8 traces they continue like this...it is like this at 2 weeks... But it was perfectly fine..


They try to produce more stems but they stay the same as the main stem.



Do they try to grow at all after the dose even if it's one leaf?
Do the traces have Boron?

The trace is from: plantfooduk site. Yes i think.

Is there any possibility of placing some plants in natural soil? That will tell you if its a nutrient issue. You can even put it on the window sill if sunny enough with some dechlorinated tap water, in clear container.


What kind of damage do you see and where on the plant? Old or new growth? Does that change over the course of week or two?

Manny photos now:












In this moment i'm using 3x 54w t5(162watts). Its ok?... I didnt lower it because i want to see the resoults of the changes faster..

Now that im dosing 3x more traces i feel a good change on alternanthera...
The green spoots are old, i have to take off the leaves

 

[Diogo Reis]

I think that the fact of the down part of the plant is dark, and the leaves are like this(brown), is potassium. The new leaves are getting like this because the plant is sending the potassium to the new leaves of the new stem.

 

[Diogo Reis]

Nobody wants to comment this photos?..

 

[ian_m]

Your BBA in photo's is low or variable CO2 in a high light tank. You need to sort CO2 levels and flow out.

The lower leaves going green with algae, again is low or variable CO2. The leaves are dying with too much light, not enough CO2 and leaching organics which the algae are feeding on. Low phosphate can also cause this but you are doing phosphate and other leaves are ok, so not likely low phosphate. You need to sort CO2 levels and flow out.

The distorted leaves again points to low CO2 for the light level your have. You need to sort CO2 levels and flow out.

The yellowing of the tops of the plants can be caused by them being too close to the light, especially as you have 162 Watts over 200litre, which is in the (very) high light category. I have 70W over 180l and have had issues with getting CO2 spot on. You will need 100% spot on CO2 levels with that level of light or plants will suffer....

I think you need to lower light levels and get the CO2 sorted for this level of light.

 

[Diogo Reis]

Ok.. Even if the light is 15cm higher the aquarium? I have reflectors

The bba was from the beggining but i will use excel later.
I already taked off the leaves with bba and green spots.

What do you think of that about ammania bonsai? And the plants that the new leaves have a nice green and the lower part have a dark green? Is that potassium?.. I think so..

Here:
http://www.verdanttriangle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/def-chart.jpg
They are saying that dark on the old leaves are phosphate... I already put 1x 1/16 teaspoon on my aquarium.. I will just put 2 t5 lamps..
I will have 108w with the light 15cm higher the aquarium, Thats ok?

 

[sciencefiction]

Haven't been around for a day, sorry. To be honest, with the exception of the ammani, to me it looks like the plants are growing. So nutrients probably isn't an issue right now. It's hard to tell from the pictures how old the old leaves are, so that damage looks old to me and damaged leaves won't recover ever.
You need to start with a clean tank, trim/replant, etc.. and see if with this regime it's growing.
Potassium deficiency, at least for me has always been pin holes in older leaves, rapid melting of older leaves afterwards. I can't see anything like it on the pictures.
I'd remove all damaged plants/clean up the place a bit 🙂 and address the light amount/co2 relationship.
By the way ,the BBA looks cool 🙂

 

[Diogo Reis]

Dont you think that can be phosphate?? The deficiency of phosphate makes the lower part dark.. Im dosing 1/16 tsp. Its the recomended for my aquarium.. But he is super planted...