Algae Problem

[okla03]

Hi I have recently set up you dutch style tank,
well try to anyway. At first everything was fine. I was doing water changes dozing and so on.
Recently, I have started to have some BBA and now green algae mostly on the glass.
It is very easy to clean it but I clean it yesterday and today is back agin. Most of the plants don’t show any growth. This is the set up:
1. Size of tank in litres-90/55/55-270l
2. Age of the set - up- just over two months
3. Filtration + Media/Sponges- oase 600 with sera 1000 connected to it two trays of sponges rest matrix
4. Lighting and duration-Chihiros wergb pro 2
5. Substrate- some tropica soil mixed with flourite black sand some pond soil at the bottom and then new Tropica on the top
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing- Co2 yes
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios- Tropica specialised 11ml a day and APT to remineralise water
8. Water change regime and type- once a week now RO
9. Plant list + When planted- planted at the start of the setup.
Alternanthera reineckii Pink,
Rotala rotundifolia
Eriocaulon sp.Vietnam
Limnophila hippuridoides
Lindernia rotundifolia
Hottonia palustris
Lagenandra meeboldii red
Cryptocoryne petchii
Limnophila aromatica
Micranthemum umbrosum
Staurogyne repens
Lobelia cardinalis dwarf
Pogostemon helferi
10. Drop Checker- Yes,green
11. Inhabitants-7cherry barb, 3 otocinclus, some amano some cherry shrimp 5 Rasboras
In one of the pictures you can see some algae that is for yesterday.
Thank you in advance.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi @okla03
The plant health looks good although the young plantlets on the Pistia Stratiotes look a tad pale!
I always associate BBA with high flow and filters needing attention.
Have a look at the filter/sponges and give them a clean....Matrix removes Nitrate plus the floaters will also do the same.
Therefore you could be low in Nitrate.....cut the RO with a 3 to 1 Ratio of tap water.
It's early days yet...so be patient.
Cheers
hoggie

 

[Zeus.]

Oase BioMaster 600 external filter is perfect for larger aquariums up to 600 Litres with a high flow rate of 1250lph

So output of 1250lph until you add all that media and matrix and the sera 1000 lets say its cut it in half so 600lph ( at worse)

Ideal output x10 tank volume of 270l so 2700lph even without the media and sera 1000 its has less that 50% of whats advised

Plus in the first pic the floaters you have in the tank surgust to me that there isn't much surface agitation, which in turn suggests lowish tank turnover. Do the plants sway in the flow?

My initial diagnosis - inadequate flow/turnover leading to irregular [CO2]

Have you done a pH profile?

Removing all that matrix from filters and having coarse and medium sponges only would help filter output.

Biomedia is great for fish only tanks, however in planted tanks the surface area of all the plants roots in the substrate far exceeds the bio medias surface area

 

[okla03]

I have biomaster 850 with oase at the moment, once I get it back I’ll probably use it with sera 1000 and 600 as secondary filters would that be to much. One thing I’m not sure with dosing is it enough what I ad at the moment? How about light do I increase it?
Thanks!

 

[Zeus.]

I have biomaster 850 with oase at the moment, once I get it back I’ll probably use it with sera 1000 and 600 as secondary filters would that be to much

The output off both filter combined at full flow (no media) is only just above the x10 which is generally a good starting point, so both would be fine, just set the outputs up so they complement each other.

One thing I’m not sure with dosing is it enough what I ad at the moment?

Tropica specialised 11ml a day

which is just over double what TSN give as a guide see below


A good place to start IMO is going off Clives EI target dose - this would be ferts in abundance.

At Aquarium Gardens they advise a double triple dose of TNC complete to match EI dosing - much the same could be advised for TSN
As a rule of thumb tanks over 100L are cheaper to fertilise with DIY ferts, the bigger the tank the more you save.
Algae use ferts in ppb so ferts in abundance ensures there's plenty of ferts for plants ( and aglae), where as limited ferts is limiting ferts for plants only as there is always enough for the algae

How about light do I increase it?

The intensity - no not ATM - decrease a little intensity or photo period
The height - yes that would decrease the intensity which will slow the aglae down.
Also worth considering the lighting period (Photo Period) - you could decrease that also
If natural daylight is hitting tank this can be a issue also
Remember low level light ( and background light) is for viewing pleasure only and aglae can use light at lower light intensities than plants.

 

[okla03]

The output off both filter combined at full flow (no media) is only just above the x10 which is generally a good starting point, so both would be fine, just set the outputs up so they complement each other.



which is just over double what TSN give as a guide see below

View attachment 221948
A good place to start IMO is going off Clives EI target dose - this would be ferts in abundance.

At Aquarium Gardens they advise a double triple dose of TNC complete to match EI dosing - much the same could be advised for TSN
As a rule of thumb tanks over 100L are cheaper to fertilise with DIY ferts, the bigger the tank the more you save.
Algae use ferts in ppb so ferts in abundance ensures there's plenty of ferts for plants ( and aglae), where as limited ferts is limiting ferts for plants only as there is always enough for the algae



The intensity - no not ATM - decrease a little intensity or photo period
The height - yes that would decrease the intensity which will slow the aglae down.
Also worth considering the lighting period (Photo Period) - you could decrease that also
If natural daylight is hitting tank this can be a issue also
Remember low level light ( and background light) is for viewing pleasure only and aglae can use light at lower light intensities than plants.

Thank you very much, I’ll try and adjust everything as you suggested. I used to use EI long time ago I still have some frts left. I switched because of the suggestions form Gorge in one of his videos, all in one dosing solution, but is seem that all in one is not really that as far I can and understand it. I was aiming to do the same, I’m still not sure if I’m adding to much or to little off TS. As you can see in this photo he is suggesting 5ml per 50 litres per day.

 

[okla03]

I reduced the light intensity and photo period. Would this be okay?
Thanks.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

As a rule of thumb tanks over 100L are cheaper to fertilise with DIY ferts, the bigger the tank the more you save.

It is honestly a no-brainer for larger tanks. Have a look at <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Zeus.]

Thank you very much, I’ll try and adjust everything as you suggested. I used to use EI long time ago I still have some frts left. I switched because of the suggestions form Gorge in one of his videos, all in one dosing solution, but is seem that all in one is not really that as far I can and understand it. I was aiming to do the same, I’m still not sure if I’m adding to much or to little off TS. As you can see in this photo he is suggesting 5ml per 50 litres per day.

The amount of ferts required for each tank varies on many factors. For example the used of enriched substrates/AquaSoil (AS) of adding root tabs in the substrate, ADA advised very lean dosing yet there AS is packed with nutrients so the water is packed in abundance with ferts esp in the early months. Folk using hard water soon block the capacity for the AS to to work as a buffer for the ferts/toxins. Lean dosing has become very popular recently. yet I am still a fan of EI doing and regular 50% water changes esp for folk new to the hobby, as it provides ferts in abundance and the weekly 50% WC resets the tank and removes excess ferts, toxins and helps polish the water, the later is cheaper than using purigen. Lean dosing is better suited to folk who have a few years of experience in aquascaping as they will have a better skill set to spot issues.

Ferts are ferts, ions are ions and cations are cations, where they come from doesn't matter the plants don't care. So do we buy expensive AS, root tabs, multiple fert bottles with complex regimes or do DIY AIO or Marco and Micros or Front loading - as long as the plants thrive it doesn't matter.

I reduced the light intensity and photo period. Would this be okay?

7hrs isn't a short photo period so it could be reduced more esp if algae is a considered issue, or shorten the photoperiod but increase the intensity slightly - thereby less time for algae to get light to grow but better penetration to substrate level which will help carpet fill in quicker. If the light is 'intense' enough the plants will have had there fill of light after 4 to 5 hours after that its just viewing decadence - which doesnt mean turn them on full, if you see pearling and the flow isnt good enough or CO2 levels are not stable/high enough that next thing you may spot is holes in leaves and melting follows so take great care

The great melt at Olympus its easy to get carried away with high intensity lights and pearling - i did 😉

One of the reasons we don't focus on algae, is that we we focus on healthy plant growth the plants outcompete the algae so it's a win win

 

[okla03]

The amount of ferts required for each tank varies on many factors. For example the used of enriched substrates/AquaSoil (AS) of adding root tabs in the substrate, ADA advised very lean dosing yet there AS is packed with nutrients so the water is packed in abundance with ferts esp in the early months. Folk using hard water soon block the capacity for the AS to to work as a buffer for the ferts/toxins. Lean dosing has become very popular recently. yet I am still a fan of EI doing and regular 50% water changes esp for folk new to the hobby, as it provides ferts in abundance and the weekly 50% WC resets the tank and removes excess ferts, toxins and helps polish the water, the later is cheaper than using purigen. Lean dosing is better suited to folk who have a few years of experience in aquascaping as they will have a better skill set to spot issues.

Ferts are ferts, ions are ions and cations are cations, where they come from doesn't matter the plants don't care. So do we buy expensive AS, root tabs, multiple fert bottles with complex regimes or do DIY AIO or Marco and Micros or Front loading - as long as the plants thrive it doesn't matter.



7hrs isn't a short photo period so it could be reduced more esp if algae is a considered issue, or shorten the photoperiod but increase the intensity slightly - thereby less time for algae to get light to grow but better penetration to substrate level which will help carpet fill in quicker. If the light is 'intense' enough the plants will have had there fill of light after 4 to 5 hours after that its just viewing decadence - which doesnt mean turn them on full, if you see pearling and the flow isnt good enough or CO2 levels are not stable/high enough that next thing you may spot is holes in leaves and melting follows so take great care

The great melt at Olympus its easy to get carried away with high intensity lights and pearling - i did 😉

One of the reasons we don't focus on algae, is that we we focus on healthy plant growth the plants outcompete the algae so it's a win win

I should be getting back my Biomaster 850 in few days, I’ll add it straight away that should sort out the flow issue.
I’ll reduced photo period more and increase intensity bit more.
Plants don’t look bad so I think I’m doing something right just if I can stop algae from taking over it should get better in time.
With your help I’m even more confident that I will get there.
So thank you so much I’m learning so much I really appreciate it.