Algae Outbreak

[Chris25]

Hi all,

My first post here and unfortunately it has to be about the outbreak of algae I'm currently having!

I've had my tank setup for around 8 months now, with fish in for around 6 months and up until around 2 weeks ago, virtually algae free!

It's a Rio 180L.
I have 4 T8 30W bulbs (0.66W/litre) on for 9 hours, from 11am until 8pm.
I have pressurised Co2 with inline diffuser, 2 drop checkers (1 each end) showing this in the green region. I have slightly increased the co2 to possibly try and help with the algae. Comes on 1 hour before lights and goes off one hour before lights too.
I am running a fluval 406 with a spray bar covering around 80% of the tank, the intake is in the far back left hand corner with the spray bar back top right hand corner, opposite end of tank.
For ferts I am using EI and dosing Micro/Macro alternate days with a rest day Wednesday and water changes Thursday.
Heating is inline Hydor ETH 300W kept at 30C.
Water change 40-50% weekly, using HMA water.
Substrate: Eco-Complete

Inhabitants:
~90 cardinal tetra
~10 otos
5 Bronze cory
~40 Red Cherry Shrimp (I added these Sunday to hopefully help with the algae outbreak. Can move them out if needs be to holding tank)
Assassin Snails (Started with 8, but reckon there's at least 40 now, mainly small babies)
~50 MTS

Fish get fed daily (Tetra Prima Mini) and all gets eaten within seconds.
Occasional algae wafer for otos and corys

I seem to have about 3 or 4 (probably more) different types of algae. I've attached pictures below.

I'm going to have a big cut back tomorrow removing the leaves covered in algae and adjust the spray bar to angle slightly more up to agitate the surface even more, but this seems counter productive to the co2 dosing?

Could anyone help with the best way to combat the different types of algae?

From a distance it looks great!



But on closer inspection...
Aquarium Algae ID (updated May6th '10 Surface Skum)
Used this to try and identify where I can,


Circular algae on the glass, green spot algae or green dust algae?


Not the best picture and hard to see but main strand in middle of picture has algae growing from it, Not sure which algae this is?


Looks to be some kind of hair algae growing amongst the dwarf hairgrass. Really want this plant to carpet everywhere but it just doesn't seem to want to in my setup. Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated too. RCS hopefully helping out...



These two, again some kind of hair/thread algae growing on the leaves. These leaves will be removed! Stag horn algae maybe?


This algae I actually dont mind on the wood and think it looks good. (If it would only stay on the wood) Green beard algae?


This is down the inside of the glass, small hairy algae growing on the glass! Green beard again?


The plant in the back corner doesn't reduce flow as the outpipe is to the right of this but will trim this down so it is an inch or two below the surface.


The green leafy plant in the middle I think had got too tall and is reducing flow which could be causing some issues?


Love this red plant in the corner, but that too is covered in algae on the top of the leaves.

My initial thoughts are,
Cut away leaves with algae
Increase surface agitation by angling spray bar further upwards
Reduce lighting, turn one or two of the lights off
Reduce lighting time from 9 hours to 6
Start co2 injection 2 hours before lights come on
Use razor blade on glass and remove algae and suck this away at same time during water change
Increase co2 levels to more of a green/ slightly yellow drop check colour instead of firmly in green

I currently plan to do all of this at once and if that doesn't work try a blackout...

Are my steps above correct to deal with this? Should I do all at once or try changing one thing at a time?

If you need any more information just ask.

Will check the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Ph levels tomorrow.

Thanks in advance!

Chris

 

[ian_m]

I have 4 T8 30W bulbs (0.66W/litre) on for 9 hours, from 11am until 8pm

This is your issue, 120W over 50US gals -> 2.4W/gal so you are in high tech land and for 9 hours !!!! This is the main algae cause. I run 50W T8 over 180litres for 8hours, and no algae to mention of, certainly nothing like your growth....

Try running only two tubes for less hours per day (6 hours), see how you get on. Algae is killed by liquid carbon so any growths on hardscape that can be removed and squirted with liquid carbon, left couple of minutes and put back in tank.

If not try complete blackout (cover tank with blankets + black poly bags) for 3 days will generally kill/weaken the algae. Plants & fish will be OK for this short time.

I am running a fluval 406 with a spray bar covering around 80% of the tank

This is rated only 1400litres/hour, a high tech tank should be aiming for 10x volume/hour -> 1800l/hour. Try adding a power head (or another filter) to increase the flow. Remove all filter foams and floss from filter to try and increase flow as well.

 

[roadmaster]

Don't know that I would remove filter media from filter completely, but would certainly clean it along with hoses ,spraybar. This alone could increase flow.
Might move spray bar to middle of back wall aimed toward's front glass.
Agree with cutting two bulb's ,and powerhead such as Koralia to help with better CO2 distribution.
Just my two cent's.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Don't know that I would remove filter media from filter completely

I think "ian_m" was just suggesting the removal of the foam and floss, but keeping some biological media like sintered glass/ceramic rings, eheim "coco-pops" etc that don't impede flow. I have a sponge on the filter intake, which means that you can clean it in a matter of seconds without opening the filter, but only rings etc in side.

I'm low tech but if I get stags-horn (Compsopogon - the wiry grey strands on ends of leaves in the light) it is usually because I need to clean the filter media or pipes.

I don't like gravel, because organic matter can build up in the gaps, which means syphoning, and I don't like syphoning, but I might be tempted to have a syphon through the Eleocharis to remove the mulm and Rhizoclonium, as your gravel looks quite mulmy.

cheers Darrel

 

[roadmaster]

Hi all, I think "ian_m" was just suggesting the removal of the foam and floss, but keeping some biological media like sintered glass/ceramic rings, eheim "coco-pops" etc that don't impede flow. I have a sponge on the filter intake, which means that you can clean it in a matter of seconds without opening the filter, but only rings etc in side.

I'm low tech but if I get stags-horn (Compsopogon - the wiry grey strands on ends of leaves in the light) it is usually because I need to clean the filter media or pipes.

I don't like gravel, because organic matter can build up in the gaps, which means syphoning, and I don't like syphoning, but I might be tempted to have a syphon through the Eleocharis to remove the mulm and Rhizoclonium, as your gravel looks quite mulmy.

cheers Darrel

Oh,, I see.
My thought's were on the sudden loss of filter material loaded with bacteria and number's of fishes.
Realize plant's make excellent bio filter, but is unclear to me how much plant mass it takes for loss of filter material to not have possibly negative effect.

 

[martinmjr62]

Hi Chris, I also have a Rio180 and i run 2 Fluval 405's and a Koralia 900. I run the 405's with identical media in each and a bag of purigen in each also.I use the Fluval outlets instead of the spray bar, one in each corner pointing forwards with the koralia in the middle pointing forwards as well.
I run 2 39w T5's over mine from 4-9pm with an additional 25w arcadia tropical that comes on at 3 and goes off at 10 to give a small light up for an hour before the main lights on and and hour after main lights off.
I do get a little bba on the slow growing anubis and fern but generally it stays pretty clear

Cheers
Martin

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Realize plant's make excellent bio filter, but is unclear to me how much plant mass it takes for loss of filter material to not have possibly negative effect.

If you have a planted tank you need a small volume of biological media, as long as that biological media is fully oxygenated. Plant/microbe systems are somewhere in the region of x10 as efficient as "microbe alone" systems. The reasons for this are 3 fold, the first is the extra oxygen production from photosynthesis, the second is the active uptake of NH3, NO2 and NO3 by the plant, and the final one is the increased volume of surfaces available to nitrifying bacteria. These mainly result from the increase in oxygenated zone in the substrate in the rhizosphere surrounding the root.

cheers Darrel

 

[TimT]

I think "ian_m" was just suggesting the removal of the foam and floss, but keeping some biological media like sintered glass/ceramic rings, eheim "coco-pops" etc that don't impede flow. I have a sponge on the filter intake, which means that you can clean it in a matter of seconds without opening the filter, but only rings etc in side.

Does one remove all of the foam and floss? Interesting idea with the sponge. Is it a coarse sponge so it doesn't inhibit the flow? Do you use Purigen or something else to polish the water and catch the material the floss usually catches?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Does one remove all of the foam and floss?

Yes.

Is it a coarse sponge so it doesn't inhibit the flow?

Yes I use a coarse PPI10 sponge, but you could use a medium PPI20 sponge, although you would need to clean it more frequently.

Do you use Purigen or something else to polish the water and catch the material the floss usually catches?

No, but I use quite hefty sponges. Have a look at this thread <Sponge over filter intake for shrimp | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.

TA aquaculture sell a range of suitable sponges, but I know that Tim Addis is retiring and emigrating, so I'm not quite sure what is happening to them. There web site is still up <TA-Aquaculture> with some bargains on it at the moment.

cheers Darrel

 

[Chris25]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies so far!

So far I have done the following:

Cut away all leaves covered in algae and removed as much as possible from substrate and glass.
70% water change.
Turned off two of the lights.
Cleaned the filter sponges, although this wasn't all that dirty.
Increased surface agitation.

One thing which I think has caused more problems is due to the new cherry shrimp I have covered the intake with tights!
I have ordered the following stainless steel mesh intake guard which should increase the flow rate again.
Stainless Steel Mesh Aquarium Filter Intake Guard Fish Crystal Red Shrimp Safe | eBay

So far it's looking good and the algae doesn't seem to be coming back as yet, only less than a week though.

I really think the shrimp are helping out though, those guys are always cleaning!

Thanks for the advice!

 

[roadmaster]

Hi all, If you have a planted tank you need a small volume of biological media, as long as that biological media is fully oxygenated. Plant/microbe systems are somewhere in the region of x10 as efficient as "microbe alone" systems. The reasons for this are 3 fold, the first is the extra oxygen production from photosynthesis, the second is the active uptake of NH3, NO2 and NO3 by the plant, and the final one is the increased volume of surfaces available to nitrifying bacteria. These mainly result from the increase in oxygenated zone in the substrate in the rhizosphere surrounding the root.

cheers Darrel

I think more than a few people have differing idea's as to what plant mass in needed to work as you say.
Larger number's of fish require larger plant mass, and this is especially true during new tank set up's before bacteria has colonized substrate,decor.Lot's of folk's get in trouble with "silent cycling " in this way.
If you have large number's of fish and few plant's,,then sudden loss of media could in my view have negative effect.
If you have many plant's,and few fish,, + mature tank,then the effect of lost material (any type media in the flow of water) would not be as worrysome.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I think more than a few people have differing idea's as to what plant mass in needed to work as you say. Larger number's of fish require larger plant mass, and this is especially true during new tank set up's before bacteria has colonized substrate,decor.

This is true, my suspicion would be that my version of "heavily planted" is very different from a lot of peoples.

It also depends a lot on the type of plants, if you use floaters with access to aerial CO2, they begin to act as a "floating filter" reducing nitrogen levels as soon as you put them in. Personally I always like to let the tanks "grow in" over several months before I add any fish, and I only have "jungles", but if I needed to set a new tank up and stock it straight away I wouldn't have any compunction about doing this as long as I added enough plants, including floaters and had enough flow to ensure oxygenation and gas exchange. If I had a cycled filter I'd definitely use it, but if I didn't I wouldn't be too concerned. I'll put a few bits about cycling below, but the really important bit about plants is that they remove NH3 and add oxygen, so factors like oxygen levels, carbonate hardness and pH are much less relevant to them than they are to "microbe alone" systems.

Specifically on Cycling
Cycling is in many ways a strange concept, and it is only really fish keepers who talk about it. If you talk to people who work with polluted water (and this could be anything from the Environment Agency biologists working on fairly pristine streams, the commercial commercial aquaculture industry, all the way through to sewage and leachate treatment), they will use a raft of different physical, chemical and biological techniques to both estimate pollution and ameliorate its effects, but they will all be primarily interested in the oxygen content of the "water", and how it relates to the total oxygen demand.

Because this oxygen demand can include both chemical and biological factors it is described as Biochemical Oxygen Demand - "BOD". As well as oxygen, as the BOD increases you also need an increased supply of carbonates, and for this reason the really intractable polluted waters are the ones that combine low pH and hardness with high BOD. Carbonate is important for 2 reasons, the first is that in polluted systems you have "carbonaceous bacteria" in suspended flocs, these utilise about 100:5 carbon:NH3, and respond very quickly to increases in NH3 levels.

Nitrification (the "cycle") takes a bit longer to develop, and again the nitrifying bacteria are actually using carbon (as CO2 or HCO3-) as their energy source, and the oxidation of NH3 to NO2 and NO3 is the mechanism for energy transfer.

This is why you get:

Nitrosomonas bacteria oxidize ammonium to nitrite via hydroxylamine.
2NH4+ + O2 --> 2NH2OH + 2H+
NH4+ + 1.5 O2 --> NO2- + 2H+ + H2O

Second Conversion (Nitrite to Nitrate)
Nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite to nitrate.
NO2- + 0.5 O2 --> NO3-

As well as the O2 utilised, you can also see 2 H+ ions are produced, and acids are defined as H+ ion donors, which is why we get low pH in "old tank" syndrome.

As a rule of thumb as long as the oxygen available exceeds the BOD things are OK, but because oxygen is the fundamental requirement of air breathing organisms it only needs a very short period of oxygen debt for death and disaster to occur.

cheers Darrel