MichaelJ
Member
Hey careful man! There is a serious science discussing here!
Thanks @dw1305 and @X3NiTH for elaborating on the details. Very helpful.
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Algae, Cyanobacteria and Plants - An Hypothesis?
- Thread starter jaypeecee
- Start date
Thanks @dw1305 and @X3NiTH for elaborating on the details. Very helpful.
Hi Everyone,
I forgot to include the following:
It's only necessary to read the Abstract and Introduction to gather the stuff that's likely to be of interest to we aquarists.
JPC
I forgot to include the following:
It's only necessary to read the Abstract and Introduction to gather the stuff that's likely to be of interest to we aquarists.
JPC
Hi @MichaelJ
There would almost certainly be organics of some form in the tank water. Specifically, I was/am interested in knowing the Total Phosphate (orthophosphate + polyphosphate + organic phosphorus) content of my tank water. And I know of a laboratory that can run this test for a reasonable price. I know that inorganic phosphate (orthophosphate) was less than 0.02 ppm as I had no reason not to trust the JBL Test Kit. And, if there are any organic phosphorus compounds in my tank water, then it is/was not sufficient to sustain growth of cyanobacteria. Only the Java Ferns flourished.
At this point, I need a break as my 68 year old brain is starting to complain!
JPC
There would almost certainly be organics of some form in the tank water. Specifically, I was/am interested in knowing the Total Phosphate (orthophosphate + polyphosphate + organic phosphorus) content of my tank water. And I know of a laboratory that can run this test for a reasonable price. I know that inorganic phosphate (orthophosphate) was less than 0.02 ppm as I had no reason not to trust the JBL Test Kit. And, if there are any organic phosphorus compounds in my tank water, then it is/was not sufficient to sustain growth of cyanobacteria. Only the Java Ferns flourished.
At this point, I need a break as my 68 year old brain is starting to complain!
JPC
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Hi Everyone,
I should have added that, as I was growing Java Ferns, there was no substrate in my test tank. And no livestock of any description - that was visible to the human eye!
JPC
MichaelJ
Member
Putting it in layman's terms, I suppose it's fair to boil it down to the origin of the Phosphate (and possibly Nitrate). Is it organic, like the case is, if it originates from waste/decay, it promotes algae. Is it inorganic, like what we mostly dose, it will not cause algae by itself. It's all about what compound the Phosphate, or Nitrate for that matter, is part of. I.e. if it's bonded to Carbon(?) I know I am glossing over a lot of finer points here. Just trying to understand 🙂
Cheers,
Michael
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MichaelJ
Member
Game on!
You use an before a word beginning with a syllabic speech sound (not letter) - It does not matter how the word is spelled. It only matters how it is pronounced. So in this case it's 'a hypothesis', as correctly noted.
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the excellent feedback to which I will return at a later date. In the meantime, an update...
Some of the Java Ferns are now, not surprisingly, starting to show nutrient deficiency. See the attached photo. Can anyone suggest which nutrient(s) is/are likely to be causing the browning of the leaves? If I can identify this/these nutrient(s), then I can possibly start to re-introduce it/them and monitor for changes not only to the Java Ferns but to the growth of Cyanobacteria.
Thanks in advance.
JPC
Thanks for the excellent feedback to which I will return at a later date. In the meantime, an update...
Some of the Java Ferns are now, not surprisingly, starting to show nutrient deficiency. See the attached photo. Can anyone suggest which nutrient(s) is/are likely to be causing the browning of the leaves? If I can identify this/these nutrient(s), then I can possibly start to re-introduce it/them and monitor for changes not only to the Java Ferns but to the growth of Cyanobacteria.
Thanks in advance.
JPC
Attachments
Hi @azawaza
It's not as straightforward as you have suggested. Please take a look at the following:
A/an hypothesis?
Is it a or an hypothesis? I am not a native speaker (and not very language talented) so I would appreciate any explanation/rules.
english.stackexchange.com
But, now, let's get back to the topic of this thread - please.
JPC
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @jaypeecee I would like to know the answer to that as well. Unfortunately, the specifics of what nutrients causes browning, as with so many other signs of deficiency, seems to be all over the place (Mg, Mn, K, Fe, P etc.)... besides obvious CO2 vs. light imbalance (which is probably not the case here)... It would be a big step forward if we could actually tell.
Cheers,
Michael
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Im walking on pretty thin ice but I feel more confident guessing what deficiency it -isnt-.
It doesn't look like iron, magnesium or nitrate deficiency to me, only based on my personal experience with my own java ferns.
The silvery grey areas are very interesting, is the picture true to life? Do they have almost a purple hue? If so, could it be phosphorus?
I am just guessing so take it with a grain of salt
Are you able to see if the affected leaves are old or new leaves?
Hi @Hufsa
Phosphorus deficiency is, in my opinion, the most likely explanation. It's very likely that stored phosphorus in the Java Ferns has now been depleted. I don't know why it's taken me so long for the 'penny to drop'! 😳 Being epiphytes, the Java Ferns are unable to uptake phosphate from the substrate*. BTW, the browning leaf edges do not have a purple hue. It's very much a rust red/brown.
* and this tank does not have any substrate!
JPC
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John q
Member
Mine too, but maybe I've missed the boat on this one.
If your hypothesis is based on "phosphate causes cyanobacteria" then I assume you're feeding the tank/plants everything except this? If that's not the case, then please correct me on this.
However if this is the case then I would suggest the plants are suffering phosphate deficiencies?
Hi @John q
Thanks for the feedback.
I don't think it's as simple as X causes Y. For quite some time, I've been trying to identify the factors that give rise to the growth of the species of Cyanobacteria that grows in our tanks. Please take a look at:
Cyanobacteria Identification - At Last!
Hi Folks, Like many other aquarists, I have had cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') grow in my tanks. And I started reading about this stuff. Of course, I initially thought BGA was algae. Why else would it be known as BGA (Blue-Green Algae)? But I later discovered that it's not an algae at all. It's a...
www.ukaps.org
If my memory serves me rightly, Tom Barr has also said that Oscillatoria is the most prevalent in hobbyists' tanks. I'll check this out as I think it's on The Barr Report forums. As I have concluded above (post #38), it's now pretty obvious that some of the Java Ferns have got to the stage where phosphorus has been depleted.
JPC
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John q
Member
I get that @jaypeecee but your opening line in this thread was this.
I'll suggest they also need a number of other nutrients to survive, omit any one of them and the cyanobacteria will reced.
Maybe this hypothesis is above my head (which is probable) just trying to understand what exactly it is you're suggesting is the cause of algae/cyanobacteria.
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