I cant remember if I already posted something along these lines but love the journal and how unapologetically Josh it is š Very interesting to see some outside the box techniques, I think we all really appreciate being allowed to follow along šš
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A reflection - putting it all into one scape
- Thread starter JoshP12
- Start date
š ā¦ itās a whole lot more fun to share the journey this time.
On a different note, check this-
Yesterday, and in any photo within this week, the 4kh was yellow.
The stems have just taken off. To @Wookii point about consumption from the light - thatās a massive jump overnight that we get to experience with massive PAR.
@Libba what do I have to do now in a few days? š
Freshflora
Member
Pretty sure 10-15 is not the standard in nature, especially when it comes to the bodies of water that are actually somewhat comparable to our tanks and host the most robust and healthy plants. Why inject CO2 for a planted tank, isn't it unnatural ?, look at the natural water ways listed there. I have Christel Kasselmannās latest edition of her book too which has tons of measurements from lots of freshwater bodies of water where our plants come fromālots at 25ppm +. I remember reading something also about the CO2 levels in Florida waterways which are, as things go, some of the best comparisons to our planted tanks, and they get highly saturated with CO2. Iāll spend some time looking for it in a bit, and when I find it Iāll post it in my journal with my next update š.
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Yeah, I've seen that link before - if you take the average its 14.6ppm š
I have to hang my head and admit I have that book but haven't read it properly yet
. . . I'll take a look over the weekend, thanks for the suggestion.Lol Yeah, I have very specific reasons for pursuing that level specific to that tank and set-up (I am indeed trying to get closer to wild water parameters because that tank will be fish focused, not plant focused) - I will be running very low light levels and very specific plants with low light compensation points. I know from experience I will be able to run at those CO2 levels, under those parameters, but it is a world away from a proper full fat high tech tank.
As you suggested, it's not something I would ever advocate for a proper/typical high tech tank - getting levels above 30ppm are critical, and I've always pushed my high tanks above that in the past with a pH drop around the 1.2-1.3 mark.
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Typical is the key word and Iām glad you included it.
There are ways to run high tech on lower levels - manipulating other factors (ferts, light, plant choice).
2 plants taught me the most this far: Rotala rotundifolia and Rotala Macrandra mini butterfly
The rotundifolia responds to stuff fast and furious - @dw1305 called it a canary in a coal mine once (just canāt remember the post).
I went to the lower co2 mark and of course erio dies first but as we let the tank die slowly dropping co2 levels one week at a time and watch the species adapt, we can see why āTropicaā put the levels easy, medium, hard as itās in the opposite order that they begins to die off. In the final iteration of the tank prior to this one, I had 40+ species in there. Was neat to watch them slowly die off as the emersed growth also happened and then as I finally pulled out co2. Certain niches took over.
So you can build high tech with proper plant choice and probably get away with 15.
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I have been very interested in learning what level of CO2 is considered "normal" in the places our plants come from, but I think there are a few potential issues.
Firstly we have to make sure we are looking at a place that actually supports larger amounts of submersed plants (usually stemplants for our CO2-inquiry purposes as some of them can be quite demanding). There is no sense looking at CO2 data from a blackwater river with no plants and just leaves and tannins, so we have to consider our sources carefully.
Secondly, while I have Christel's latest book (and its wonderful), it wasnt entirely clear to me how the CO2 values reported in that section have been measured. If they have been calculated from the KH and PH values, wont they run into the issue of being inaccurately reported too high in cases where there are other acids present in the water? After all this is the main reason we cannot use the KH/PH/CO2 chart directly for our tanks, and this chart leads beginners into thinking they have like 160ppm CO2 which is in most cases not reality.
Grateful if someone has an answer for this last point
Not much to report. Snapped these yesterday.
Macrandra size and growth rates seems to follow flow pattern and the centre with the most light seems to grow the slowest (I intentionally pointed my primes to the same ācenterā).
Going to have to āfixā the shape by trimming. (Or adjusting beam spread from lights).
I will say, I love how dense and tight the plants look despite the massive cloudiness.
On a similar note, purigen hasnāt cleared anything up (if anything maybe has just slowed down bacterial bloom indirectly and I couldāve left it out and nothing would have changed for the end product - just more bloom for now).
Debating running uv JUST for the sake of getting clear water - not because I have/want to - the issue will be that all those dead spores will probably turn into ammonia and it may negatively impact the plants ā¦. Though I want to see the forms more clearly ā¦ and can probably circumvent with an additional water change (instead of every 3-4 daysā¦ stick to 3 and likely not 4) - maybe even micro turn up co2 just to compensate.
Ciao
Macrandra size and growth rates seems to follow flow pattern and the centre with the most light seems to grow the slowest (I intentionally pointed my primes to the same ācenterā).
Going to have to āfixā the shape by trimming. (Or adjusting beam spread from lights).
I will say, I love how dense and tight the plants look despite the massive cloudiness.
On a similar note, purigen hasnāt cleared anything up (if anything maybe has just slowed down bacterial bloom indirectly and I couldāve left it out and nothing would have changed for the end product - just more bloom for now).
Debating running uv JUST for the sake of getting clear water - not because I have/want to - the issue will be that all those dead spores will probably turn into ammonia and it may negatively impact the plants ā¦. Though I want to see the forms more clearly ā¦ and can probably circumvent with an additional water change (instead of every 3-4 daysā¦ stick to 3 and likely not 4) - maybe even micro turn up co2 just to compensate.
Ciao
Was worried UV wasnāt working as it didnāt clear up. Opened up the canister and it was clearly working. It can take longer than 24hr but it Wasnāt working āwell-enoughā ā anyways enough of that!
After checking it, I got the maintenance bug:
Only trimmed the little cove in the front just to help get that flow right into the back of those Rotala (the ones at the back showed some thinness).
Monte Carlo has roots still and some leaf - tissue is white so thatās good.
All that to sayā¦ I just went for it. Planted some macrandras scattered to check flow/light in the tank as we can see how they responded in the middle and compare (Iāve never run this flow pattern before).
The brown/green algaes on the rock came off just with my hand wafting.
After checking it, I got the maintenance bug:
Only trimmed the little cove in the front just to help get that flow right into the back of those Rotala (the ones at the back showed some thinness).
Monte Carlo has roots still and some leaf - tissue is white so thatās good.
All that to sayā¦ I just went for it. Planted some macrandras scattered to check flow/light in the tank as we can see how they responded in the middle and compare (Iāve never run this flow pattern before).
The brown/green algaes on the rock came off just with my hand wafting.
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @JoshP12 I wonder if this is part sediment? I've used a water polisher from time to time when I've been messing things up to get the "instant" gratification of clear water (or actually a combination of both a polisher and a UV filter).
Cheers,
Michael
Not a bad thought actually - I have more flow/turnover than ever before so itās possible that itās suspended stuff.
Water changes donāt clear it though and it keeps persisting - characteristic of bacteria.
Will keep updating.
Yahoo! I squint to make sure nothing is stunting.
Macrandra broke to the surface - when I do the maintenance Iāll post some updated photos!
Nice to hear the encouragement! Thanks!I couldnt decide if I should press wow, like, laugh, or love
Never change Josh š¤©
We should have pretty photos in maybe a month or so?
~30min of labor and replanting and ~ 70 minutes total of changing water (and planting etc) etc.
Took around 6 iterations of water change to clear the water (canāt do 100% without more work so the compartment stays filled).
You ā¦ my friend ā¦ will carpet the entire area in several months:
I think itās a situation where you sacrifice the scape and just get those stems replanted anywhere and everywhere to get it stabilized.
Took around 6 iterations of water change to clear the water (canāt do 100% without more work so the compartment stays filled).
You ā¦ my friend ā¦ will carpet the entire area in several months:
I think itās a situation where you sacrifice the scape and just get those stems replanted anywhere and everywhere to get it stabilized.
I been thinking ā¦.
I think deformities, twisting, odd shapes, leaf structure issues that make the plant look funny and odd arenāt related to co2 ā¦ contrary to what I posted in @Hufsa journal.
Co2 issues definitely have algae-related consequences, but thereās not a single deformity in the tank ā instead of deformities, when co2 was not correct, we had straight up death, decay, thin leaves, algae-spawn things off the decrepit leaves but thatās it. And upon reflection, Iāve never fixed those issues with co2 ā¦ even odd veins/coloration of leaves ā¦
Has anyone fixed stunting with co2 exclusively?
Edit: beginning to ask myself why I didnāt see bba when my co2 was in that blue zone. And in the past I havenāt either.
The only time I had bba was when co2 was off and ferts were unbalanced. When ferts just unbalanced and no algae, deformity. When co2 off and no unbalance, death š.
I think deformities, twisting, odd shapes, leaf structure issues that make the plant look funny and odd arenāt related to co2 ā¦ contrary to what I posted in @Hufsa journal.
Co2 issues definitely have algae-related consequences, but thereās not a single deformity in the tank ā instead of deformities, when co2 was not correct, we had straight up death, decay, thin leaves, algae-spawn things off the decrepit leaves but thatās it. And upon reflection, Iāve never fixed those issues with co2 ā¦ even odd veins/coloration of leaves ā¦
Has anyone fixed stunting with co2 exclusively?
Edit: beginning to ask myself why I didnāt see bba when my co2 was in that blue zone. And in the past I havenāt either.
The only time I had bba was when co2 was off and ferts were unbalanced. When ferts just unbalanced and no algae, deformity. When co2 off and no unbalance, death š.
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As I spam the journal but check this now that the water is clear (remember how the lights on the left have cool white channel fried - sometimes):
More green algae on the right rock (with more cool white) and more brown on the left rock (with more red/warm white). @oreo57 have some insights?!
For reference:
More green algae on the right rock (with more cool white) and more brown on the left rock (with more red/warm white). @oreo57 have some insights?!
For reference:
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milesjames
Member
Loving the current style of this tank even with the issues currently, was your intention to go for a Brazilian style tank?
Its got that great contrast between hardscape and colour that is reminiscent of this style.
Its got that great contrast between hardscape and colour that is reminiscent of this style.
Thank you!
I had to look up Brazilian style - you are bang on ā¦ it looks like it! And - I love all of those tanks I looked up!
Thanks for sharing this and the insights to Brazilian style.
Maybe part of it was doing something ādifferent than I did beforeā ā¦ and before I was mostly keeping plants in ācarefully placed bushesā.
I wonder if it in a few years or a few more startups (with multiple tanks would be faster) if Iāll have the forethought to plan these styles instead of just āhey look what happenedā.
milesjames
Member
Hey @JoshP12,
Well it's a great start on a Brazilian tank and who needs to worry about "formal" style types.
Keep up the great work you look like you have a nice eye for balance when it comes to scape arrangement. (particularly if this arrangement was unplanned in a style)
Have you already zeroed in on the cause of issues or would you like some help working out whats happening?
Well it's a great start on a Brazilian tank and who needs to worry about "formal" style types.
Keep up the great work you look like you have a nice eye for balance when it comes to scape arrangement. (particularly if this arrangement was unplanned in a style)
Have you already zeroed in on the cause of issues or would you like some help working out whats happening?
