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125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic heavy

Re: First ever tank

I'm surprised to hear that about the vallis. Aqua carbon is all mine have had so far and its growing great. I have to cut them back every week to stop it blocking out all the light and pull out the unwanted runners 'cos it sends out so many. TBH when you said it was dying after the addition of the carbon I just thought it might be due to the change. I'll be very interested to see what happens with the ones you have left!

Viv
 
Re: First ever tank

friends tank uses liquid carbon- all vallis melted away months ago. my cube is ultra low tech- vallis all fine.
 
Re: First ever tank

I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.
 
First ever tank

Troi said:
I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.
Click to expand...

U still need ferts and co2 with soil
 
Re: First ever tank

Troi said:
I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.
Click to expand...

I may look into swapping the substrate at some point but because i've just started i'll leave it as it is at the mo. I have noticed though that most people use ADA aqua soil amazonia in their tanks and this doesn't require a top substrate.
 
Re: First ever tank

Justjason88 wrote:
I may look into swapping the substrate at some point but because i've just started i'll leave it as it is at the mo. I have noticed though that most people use ADA aqua soil amazonia in their tanks and this doesn't require a top substrate.
Click to expand...

No worries, that's the great thing about forums like this you get a wealth of experience and techniques to choose from. If you do decide to go down the soil route, I'll be happy to help. Good luck with your new planted tank, I hope it's a great success.


RudeDogg1 wrote:
U still need ferts and co2 with soil
Click to expand...

Soil substrate can be used with or without CO2 and ferts; the choice is entirely up to the individual to decide on what level of energy input and output they are happiest with.

For instance, I have maintained vigorous plant growth in the same setup for many years using soil alone.

If you're not sure how this works visit my tutorial "Introduction to Underwater Gardening with Soil Substrate", or follow the link below to the same.

Nonetheless, I am very interesting in your perspective and I was wondering what leads you to believe that you still need to use CO2 and ferts with soil?
 
Re: First ever tank

Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I found your answer very insightful.

Research shows that given relative concentrations of nutrients in the water column, most plants preferentially uptake most of their nutrients through their roots, in particular iron and other trace elements, and phosphorus which is rapidly absorbed; many aquatic plants can not absorb phosphorus through their leaves as readily as they can through their roots.

Which makes sense when it is considered that most aquatic plants are natives of relatively nutrient poor, or oligotrophic, waters where the sediment contains higher concentrations of nutrients.

Many plants will however generally uptake the following preferentially from the water column, ammonium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, chloride, and sulfates.

Further, substrates with high CEC also draw nutrients from the water column where they become available to plant roots. Its perhaps one of the reasons why eutrophic dosing works so well with clay based substrates like cat litter, for instance, particularly with the high flow rates popularly used with such methods.

The above also explains why soil substrates are capable of promoting vigorous plant growth over a period of several years, particularly those containing a lot of clay and/or peat.
 
Re: First ever tank

Troi said:
Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I found your answer very insightful.

Research shows that given relative concentrations of nutrients in the water column, most plants preferentially uptake most of their nutrients through their roots, in particular iron and other trace elements, and phosphorus which is rapidly absorbed; many aquatic plants can not absorb phosphorus through their leaves as readily as they can through their roots.

Which makes sense when it is considered that most aquatic plants are natives of relatively nutrient poor, or oligotrophic, waters where the sediment contains higher concentrations of nutrients.

Many plants will however generally uptake the following preferentially from the water column, ammonium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, chloride, and sulfates.

Further, substrates with high CEC also draw nutrients from the water column where they become available to plant roots. Its perhaps one of the reasons why eutrophic dosing works so well with clay based substrates like cat litter, for instance, particularly with the high flow rates popularly used with such methods.

The above also explains why soil substrates are capable of promoting vigorous plant growth over a period of several years, particularly those containing a lot of clay and/or peat.
Click to expand...

This was very helpful, good job Troi :thumbup:
 
First ever tank

Troi said:
Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I found your answer very insightful.

Research shows that given relative concentrations of nutrients in the water column, most plants preferentially uptake most of their nutrients through their roots, in particular iron and other trace elements, and phosphorus which is rapidly absorbed; many aquatic plants can not absorb phosphorus through their leaves as readily as they can through their roots.

Which makes sense when it is considered that most aquatic plants are natives of relatively nutrient poor, or oligotrophic, waters where the sediment contains higher concentrations of nutrients.

Many plants will however generally uptake the following preferentially from the water column, ammonium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, chloride, and sulfates.

Further, substrates with high CEC also draw nutrients from the water column where they become available to plant roots. Its perhaps one of the reasons why eutrophic dosing works so well with clay based substrates like cat litter, for instance, particularly with the high flow rates popularly used with such methods.

The above also explains why soil substrates are capable of promoting vigorous plant growth over a period of several years, particularly those containing a lot of clay and/or peat.
Click to expand...

Just because you clearly know more than everyone else you don't have to be so patronising ;o) lol. Non the less I found your info very interesting
 
Re: First ever tank

how do you keep the soil sweet long term? I have used soil in the past, aquatic in nature.
 
Re: First ever tank

how do you keep the soil sweet long term? I have used soil in the past, aquatic in nature.
Click to expand...

First of all choose the right soil, then use it to a depth of around 2 - 4 cm so that it doesn't become too anaerobic - aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature and macrophytes have evolved to grow in them. Planting heavily will also help since macrophytes release O2 and organic compounds in to the sediment through their roots which greatly increases microbial and bacterial activity and therefore soil health. Adding a small amount of grit to the soil also helps by improving structure.

Cap the soil with about the same thickness of course sand or fine gravel (average grain size about 3mm) to allow water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange. This ensures that the top layer of the soil or oxidised microzone remains aerobic and a hive of bacterial activity neutralising toxic substances and unlocking nutrients.

Also contrary to popular belief soil substrate is very stable once it has adjusted chemically and biologically to being submerged which can take a couple of months; regardless I often add plants and fish almost immediately without any problems. The CO2 released by the soil during this time often drives very vigorous plant growth.
 
First ever tank

Do the soils harbour leach eggs or do they come from bogwood? I've spotted a few in my tank about 1cm in length lately
 
Re: First ever tank

Do the soils harbour leach eggs or do they come from bogwood? I've spotted a few in my tank about 1cm in length lately
Click to expand...

No soil does not harbour leech eggs. That is unless the soil was sourced from a tropical rainforest (habitat of terrestrial leech species) or dug up from a leech infested pond or lake etc since all leech species found in the UK are aquatic.

However, leeches can be introduced in to the aquarium in any number of other ways usually via plants, live food or even on fish, and I suppose bog wood if it’s freshly out of someone else’s leech infested aquarium, or on wood randomly pulled out of leech infested ponds and lakes etc and then placed in the aquarium untreated.

I personally use a soil mix of sterilised loam and peat, and many others use soil from their gardens so there is no conceivable way that leech eggs will be introduced in to an aquarium by using soil.

If you still have leeches I would seriously recommend dosing your tank to get rid of them, after all most are obligate ectoparasites and will harm your fish.
 
First ever tank

I've no idea where they came from then the wood was soaked and sterilised, all plants pp dipped and fish went through qt. The soil I used was the tropica stuff
 
Re: First ever tank

are you sure it is a leech? a triop is quite common.
 
Re: First ever tank

are you sure it is a leech?
Click to expand...

That was my next question.

But that said, leeches deposit their eggs inside cocoons where they develop before hatching usually some 2 to 4 weeks later. Some species attach their cocoons to plant leaves, or substrates such as rocks, and others bury them in sediment.

Leech cocoons are highly resistant to denaturation or degradation; so much so that they show up in Jurassic and Triassic deposits. They have also been known to survive ingestion by wildfowl, and adults and cocooned eggs can endure extended periods of unfavorable environmental conditions using aestivation. So it is possible that they may have been unwittingly introduced somehow in this state, but not necessarily via Tropica substrate.
 
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