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I believe the light energy, and duration, will determine how much fertilizer the plants might use. Would not go crazy with light intensity or duration, in low tech Non CO2. For low tech Non CO2 affairs I have run over long period, I used daily estimative index values for CO2 injected tank my...

Would watch the weed. Surface plants have access to plenty of light and atmospheric CO2 near surface. If they are wanting from nutrient standpoint,they will be first to let you know. Is safe to assume then, that plants that are lower in the tank and completely submerged would also struggle...

I'm on board with Clive and Darrel . It is not the Nitrates from mineral salt's that are harmful, certainly not at suggested ranges for most dosing schemes. It is rather how the nitrates arrive. Take away the mineral salt's (KNO3) in fish only tank for example. If nitrate level's are off the...

If indeed ammonia and nitrites are off the chart's,fishes will be NFL (not for long). Both are toxic.

EI method (not brand of fertilizer's) of dosing for your/my size tank not likely to need more than method calls for.(google.. EI dosing for your size tank) More likely to have too much light for too long, or poor CO2 availability/distribution.IMHO I

Could reduce PO4 from EI values and watch plant's to see how they might react after a couple weeks. Feed fish same amount as now. If plant's begin to show displeasure,then return to previous dose of PO4. Fishes more often than not are over fed anyway.IMHO

Yes,appears to be mostly slow grower's that may not need as much nutrient's as some faster grower's might.

Add more plant's. These would help by using more of the nutrient's from the mineral salt's. It's not likely that shrimps produce enough in the way of waste for plant's to draw from if tank is heavily planted, so nutrient's are likely from dosing.(will increase TDS) If the tank is not planted...

Maybe bump in Ferrous sulfate by municipal water treatment plant ? Is said to sometimes be used for phosphate removal in municipal and industrial sewage treatment plants to help prevent eutrophication.

Depends on test kit being used, and who is doing the testing, as to how accurate result's are.(some folks can't / won't read/follow instructions.) Brand new or ten year old test kits, may have different result's. Test strips against reagent's being used might read different, or different brand...

Will never see Nitrate levels from suggested dosing schemes much over 30 ppm to be maintained . Should never see much more in un planted fish only tanks if properly maintained, unless you are over stocking,over feeding,underfiltered,lapse maint,or all of the afore mentioned. Could I suppose...

I understand that most of the nitrates,phosphates, that folk's fear, are due largely to the oxidization of the organic material that Clive mentioned (ie) Fish waste.fish food's. These begin as Ammonia,then nitrites.and finally nitrates. Is not so much the nitrate level's that hurt the...

E I is a method for dosing nutrient's rather than a brand of fertilizer's.. Is EI method for low tech (reduced amount's), and or high tech CO2 higher lighting but feel clarity should be made that there are not really any EI fertz as title of thread suggests. Enough confusion now for dosing...

Might would go to fertilizer sub forum here and read up on Estimative index. No such thing as EI ferts but rather EI is a method of fertilizing. Ferts for plants are same/same Macros/micros. Some in dry form, some mixed with water.

As the plant mass increases weekly,monthly,then more of everything might be needed. No? I do not doubt that some tanks can use less of everything ,but am struck stupid sometimes by those that want to dose only what the plant's might need for the day/week. This approach to me,would mean constant...

Would agree that full EI would maybe not be needed for first few month's with ADA soils but fishes were responsible for most of the damage according to photos and OP's observation's. OP replaced sword plant's and Bristlenose immediately set upon them. In any event,nutrient's have been reduced...

Hard for nutrient level's to increase steadily assuming plant uptake and 50% weekly water change EI method call's for. I raise long finned albino Bristlenose and some leave plant's alone while other's never seem to leave em alone once they get a taste for them. Would not be inclined to associate...

I understand. I use a popular plant fertilizer spike /stick for terrestrial plant's under the base of a couple large echinodorus , and the plant spikes contain urea along with nitrogen and po4.(Miracle Grow plant food spikes) I only add one under each plant, and replace them about once a month...

Articles on ammonia/urea excretion across the gill's of fishes were an interesting read for me.(are several out there) I might would be tempted to just add more fishes rather than come up with precise amount of urea I could safely add on top of that created by fauna.?

Mg is in trace mix CSM+B I use along with that that might be present in source water. I use a macro/micro mix www.aquariumfertilizer.com in my low tech and the mix has all macros and micros minus the phosphate which my fish food's appear to provide at sufficient level's.

Hard to get close to high level's whatever you might deem them to be with 50% water changes once a week. Raised many species of large south American cichlid's in fish only tank's with food's high in animal protein's at times.(organic waste) Often might take two 50 % water changes a week to keep...

Problem as I see it, is no one can tell you or me what level's are toxic in my tank's due to too many variables such as source water,plant mass, types of plant's,light energy,substrate composistion,,to name a few. Certainly too much of anything can be a waste or possibly detrimental.

I started a low tech NON CO2 tank a few year's back with full EI and ran it for a few month's, before discovering I only needed a third of EI level's.:rolleyes: Toxicity would to me,,, assume Zero uptake by plant's,no water changes to export possible excess,and massive overdose of macro's or...

Fe from DTPA would be my choice for hard water. Not sure if hard water would matter much with regard's to NPK What little Mg is possibly in trace mix such as CSM+B might not last long enough to affect GH further before plant's used it up. Hard water is what it is with regards to...

I been using the Osmocote Flower and vegetable formula for a few year's now. My tanks are soil based and I sprinkle the tiny pellet's on the glass or thin layer of soil before covering with more soil and then capping the soil. Last month I re-dirted my 80 gal tank in this way and used about a...

Photo look's like my arteries according to the Doctor.:oops: Two heart attack's and four stent's, and I'm still among those above ground.:thumbup:

Pffft!

I ain't blind nor do I hate anyone or anything, except Beet's.:what: I interpret what I read with sincerity, and attempt to speak my truth as I know it. Cannot speak to how other's might interpret what has been written by me or you.They shall have to speak their truth.

You may say whatever you wish, but it does not help other's,nor does it make you right without question. If one adopt's a dosing scheme (any scheme), then they know what amount's of nutrient's they are adding and that are present in the water at the time they dosed them along with those that may...

Agree that some plant's have adapted to grow in nutrient poor condition's lest they die. But something also overlooked by some hobbyist's, is the fact that not everybody using Estimative index struggles with a particular plant.(as you suggest above) Just because you do, or a dozen do,does not...

Believe many of the aquatic plant's we grow or attempt to grow submerged ,aren't found completely submerged in nature except maybe during the rainy season. This may be why some plant's grow better than other's independent of dosing schemes. Light energy,CO2 or lack thereof,temperatures,along...

I add daily dose for EI high energy tank's once a week in my low tech NON CO2 tank's. I change water once a week at 50% but could easily go three week's with no worries bout nothing.

Maybe the question should be.."How come so many can grow the weed's without issues related to nutrient delivery in their aquarium's"? But this would assume that which one might not be ready to accept. How come their tank's aren't crawling with algae? What is their secret? Are they lying bout...

Perhaps it is easier to be a scientist than for many to successfully run a planted tank sans algae.:rolleyes: You could/can take some people by the hand and show em,and they will still fail.

Perhaps their nutrient level's far exceed that which we add to our aquarium's . Perhaps their nutrient level's are comprised of too much organic matter rather than inorganic mineral salt's we use. Perhaps their bodies of nutrient rich water do not get removed and replaced with fresh water on...

What if dozen's of people have also noted no correlation between elevated nutrient level's and algae? Could there be some other factor to consider ? Excess Light energy,CO2 or lack thereof,poor maint ,poor filtration, overfeeding,or roll your own method of dosing other than what method call's...

To my knowledge,plant's in inert substrates may struggle until such time as organic matter collects within said substrate (ie)fish food's,fish waste.(common in newly established tanks with inert substrates) Grow sticks or root tabs can help in the mean time. Also my understanding that majority...

I Do not doubt that Clive can identify CO2 issues by looking at images, but for most of us ,it is a process of elimination. If we can eliminate nutrient deficiency by following EI dosing scheme then what does that leave?

Mg in trace for EI if using CSM+B.

Believe Mg is in his trace .

If dosing via EI which ensures Non limiting,(key word) and you have a problem, nutrient's or lack thereof are most often not going to be the problem. This only leaves lighting, CO2 delivery,distribution, and or flow to help get the gas to lower regions for carpet type plants. The gas want's to...

Me think's that if one were to search out PO4 target range with something like EI dosing scheme , which assures non limiting macro/micro nutrient's , That one can fully appreciate what Clive is saying about test kit's. If target range for particular nutrient was say 1.0 to 2.0 ppm, and my test...

If dosing EI as OP mention's, I would not worry bout root tabs. Plant's as I understand it, will take up nutrient's just as easily from the water as they will from their root's?

Not likely to happen with fair amount of rooted plant's which can transport oxygen to their root's. Hydrogen sulfide petty much harmless once it makes contact with O2 in the water.

I'm wondering if maybe turning lighting back, and CO2 down,if it would be necessary to double the fert dosing? EI ensures no nutrient limitation and with lighting period cut (light creates demand,less light,less demand ),and CO2 down,why would one need to double dose anything? Would not be...

Ammonia release from substrate would be my guess. Large water change with dechlorinator quickly neutralized it.?

Have kept domestic tank raised Discus,Mikrogeophagus,cardinal tetra's, (presently) in 12 DGH.pH of 7.6 from the tap . If neighbors can drink the water,Likely fish shops in the area also use same water. Some folks convince themselves they need R/O to keep fishes, and with exception of some wild...

I fear I am unable to comment on PMDD or Tropica ferts for I have not tried these. I have noted,, different methods of growing aquatic weeds produce for different folks, without denigrating other methods or people such as Tom Barr.

Well, I'm wondering how root biomass is not weighed into the equation.(do not nutrient's feed these too?) Perhaps your particular species of plant(s) has much more capability to store nutrient's in this root biomass for lean times, and thus less is needed in water column?? How can you not weigh...

I too dose once a week with dry mineral salt's .(fertilizer's) I just spoon it in rather than mix it with water.

I think I would begin fertilizing from the get go. Leaves only light,CO2,to address if using CO2.

Have you asked the author's? I have seen formula's all over the place.Some take into account source water content,some are tailored for low tech,Non CO2, Some suggest no Pottasium due to that found in KNO3,KH2PO4. Some suggest Equilibrium,GH booster for softer water. (Mg) I think that's the...

I like to think that the roughly 1/3 EI dosing that I feed plant's weekly in 300 litres, is not too much . Anywho,, plant's perform well. I know that CO2 in my tank is what it is with no CO2 supplement,I know I am adding plant food that I believe,, judging from plant 's,,is in adequate supply...

No,,I perform weekly water change or water change every two week's. I then add 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of KNO3,1/2 to 3/4 tsp of KH2PO4, 1/2 tsp K2SO4 and 1/2 tsp CSM+B day after water change so that Iron will not be affected by PRIME used at water change (said to detoxify heavy metal's). I do add CSM+B...

I dose daily suggested EI for my size tank, once a week macro's ,and twice a week with micro's= CSM+B. After that,, I watch plant's,and plant mass,to decide whether more is needed. Has worked well for me.

I am wondering out loud,,surely these high energy tank's that use EI,and higher light level's can go four or five day's without any fertz? I mean if you dialed back the CO2 a bit and perhap's light duration? Are they running this close to the edge, that any missed dose would result in??? I know...

Osmocote pot shot's are all ready to be placed under substrate,plant's. They look like a thimble all glued together and work well in moderation.

Well, Thank's for having a look see. I think I shall do some expierimenting as you suggest. Yes, Dorothy (and her little dog too) ,were swept up by tornado just five miles from here .:rolleyes: Some thirty miles to the north,,event's transpired a few year's ago that inspired the book entiltled...

Saint Joseph Missouri, Buchanan County is my stomping ground's. If it is as you say,,then i might not need to be adding the epsom salt and can use it to soak my feet.

Ceg, Am looking at report that was faxed. It say's,,, Total hardness as( CaCO3) 215 mg/L ,and then it say's 12.6 grain's per gallon total hardness (as CaCO3, )(naturally occurring). Makes no mention anywhere else as to Mg. Am pleased it was you who responded.

Greeting's all. My source water's total hardness is as CaCO3 215 mg/l.(no Mg) My 300 litre low tech, NON CO2 tank currently receives 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp KNO3,KH2PO4,once a week and 1/2 tsp CSM+B once or twice a week with weekly 50% water change. Lighting is 65watt X 2 50/50 6700/10,000 k CFL...

I am caring for plant's in 400 litre sand over soil tank with crypt's,anubia,swordplant's,vallisneria, and dose macronutrient's once every couple week's and change water once a month or every three week's. Also add trace mineral's CSM+B once or twice a week. Tank is lit with three 32 watt T8...

I just dump em in at night or otherwise fishes try to eat em. Prolly should mix up a liquid solution but I'm a bit lazy. :lol:

Re: Potassium Bicarbonate and Potassium Phosphate = overdosi With EI dosing scheme,GH booster/equilibrium,50 % weekly water changes, used in many planted tanks, I'm not sure pH crash could happen, unless you also remove that which buffers the water,stop water changes, or drive it down with CO2...

Agree with Darrel in above post with one exception. In unplanted tank's where nitrates are end result of breakdown of organic's/animal protein's, such as tanks holding large waste producing fishes such as Cichlids,, or riverine fishes such as loaches,plecos,some catfish species ,then the...

I am on board with Clive with regard's to KNO3 being possible contributer to problems with fishes BUT,, I believe there is large difference between nitrate levels from mineral salt's and nitrate levels as result of decaying organics,metabolic waste, which is more a sign of poor maint . Have...

Re: EI dosing calculator - are UKAPS guidelines inconsistent Am new to wholesale planted tanks ,most of my previous expieriences with plant's were plant's in pot's placed in cichlid tank's where rooting them can become problematic, or in outdoor patio tubs and horse troughs. I am thankful for...

I agree, :D I have moderately hard water hard water 10-12 DGH from the tap. Over time ,with lot's of plant's, and fewer water changes,, I am able to keep Cardinal tetra's as the water slowly becomes more acidic through natural process, and smaller less frequent water changes seem's to suit...

Hmmm, Waste comes from both end's of the fish I keep. If I've already got the hose,pump,syphon out... I'm gonna change more than 15 to 20 percent. I could prolly go much longer in my low tech tank between water changes, but old habit's die hard, and once a month is about all the longer I can...

Can only speak for myself from fishy side of things . Weekly 50 percent water changes are nothing new, and most folks I know, don't have a problem with this amount and it does provide benefit's to the fish.Been doin it for year's. I also run a low tech, Low energy tank and dose modified EI as...

Fine, Then I shall finish off the jug of flourish and begin with the CSM+B and note any changes.

What would be the choice or benefit's of one over the other..CSM+B or Flourish comprehensive? Am liking the effect's thus far of Flourish but am liking the Price of CSM+B in comparison. Am using the flourish in low light,low tech,NON CO2 tank but also have some CSM+B that I ordered some months...

I am wondering if those who dose Fe ,and trace , think that by using water conditioner such as Prime that perhaps it would be better to dose afore mentioned the day after water changes? This product claims to detoxify or bind with heavy metals (12 hours-twenty four hours) and if this is...

Thank you for the informed response. Me thinks I need to do some more research. :wink:

Thank you much! The second site suggested provided the precise info I was looking for in apparently the wrong places. I am now wondering ,at what levels in a closed sytem, would these phosphates be considered potentially harmful to fish. I will assume that frequency and volume of water changes...

What are Orthophosphates comprised of ? I am keenly interested in the benefits of this particular type of phosphate over organic phosphates. Have expierienced the effects of the latter in low tech planted aquaria but have been up to this point ignorant of the orthophosphates you speak of. How...

I wonder why one would buy powder when natural process provides it for nothing? How much powder is too much?