Help me decide - Low or High Tech?

[Mark.A]

I'm looking at getting a 6ft x 2ft x 2ft tank very soon and I have been planning to go medium light this time with CO2 and diy ferts (you can see more details here) but... I'm no longer sure it's going to be the right way to go so I'm looking for input to help me decide if it is or not.

For reference I'm adding a pic of my last 2 tanks (a Fluval Flex 32 Gallon and a 30cm Betta cube), before they were taken down. In the tanks below I was dosing TNC Lite with no CO2.



In the new tank I am wanting to have 99% slow growing, low to medium light plants - swords, crypts, loads of Anubias, ferns, loads of Bucephalandra with maybe the odd small group or two of low-medium light stems.

The tank will be very heavily planted, similar to the one above but on a bigger scale, and will also have a heavier fish stock than most aquascapers have in their tanks. I also feed them well.

I just want the plants to be healthy and am not bothered about growth, so very slow growing is fine by me. The tank will basically be fully stocked with plants from the outset anyway.

I've recently read that it is thought that, where low light tanks are run without CO2, regular weekly water changes are not only not needed but they could actually cause algae by adding CO2 and you should rarely do water changes (twice a year at most).

So now I am thinking maybe I would be better off just going back to how I kept my previous tanks, keeping it simple (stupid) by just using low-med light, no CO2, minimal ferts and barely any water changes. Maybe a bit of EasyCarbo now and then to provide a little carbon.

The plants will obviously grow more slowly, which is fine by me, less pruning. My only concern is them remaining healthy and looking good and keeping algae at bay. I actually like to see some of the green, mossy algae here and there, I think it looks natural but I don't want 'nuisance' algae or for it to get out of control.

This way is going to be cheaper (though that's not really an issue) and much less work (which is better for me). I have bad leg joints and bad back so the less work I have to do on the tank the better. I just want to be able to enjoy watching the tank and have it remain looking good.

So I guess my main question is - is there a good reason for me to go with with the medium light and CO2 with full ferts? ...or is it just a case of wanting too much tech and adding extra work that I don't really need too?

Personally I'm now thinking more along the lines of just sticking with what I know and doing low-med light, low tech and just enjoying the slow growing plants.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

For reference I'm adding a pic of my last 2 tanks (a Fluval Flex 32 Gallon and a 30cm Betta cube), before they were taken down. In the tanks below I was dosing TNC Lite with no CO2.

They look great.

In the new tank I am wanting to have 99% slow growing, low to medium light plants - swords, crypts, loads of Anubias, ferns, loads of Bucephalandra with maybe the odd small group or two of low-medium light stems.

I don't think you need CO2. Not using CO2 is also a <"lot safer for the fish">, as well as one less expense etc.

...or is it just a case of wanting too much tech and adding extra work that I don't really need too?

That one.

A big tank allows you to grow plants - <"Mangroves and More"> you couldn't in a smaller tank - <"400 gallon."> & <"Big plant suggestions needed please">

cheers Darrel

 

[Mattant1984]

Hi all,

They look great.

I don't think you need CO2. Not using CO2 is also a <"lot safer for the fish">, as well as one less expense etc.

That one.

A big tank allows you to grow plants - <"Mangroves and More"> you couldn't in a smaller tank - <"400 gallon."> & <"Big plant suggestions needed please">

cheers Darrel

I previously had a 6x2x2 fully planted and it was low tech. I only used a sand substrate with root tabs, basic cheap lighting and TNC complete daily.

I got really good growth and it looked good however I did only keep easy plants.

The 2 biggest issues I found was stocking the tank with plants as you need a HUGE amount for a tank that size and getting enough flow around the tank was a little tricky

 

[Mark.A]

A big tank allows you to grow plants that you couldn't in a smaller tank - <"400 gallon."> & <"Big plant suggestions needed please">

Yeah, I'm looking forward to having bigger swords. I plan to have a mix of red diamond and red flame swords at the back.

Thanks for the input.

If I do go the low-med light, low tech route then the next thing I need to consider is how much light is enough and not too much on that size tank.

The substrate will be built up to the back, so the back will be about 10 inches deep and only a thin covering across the front. Hardscape will hold back the majority of the substrate from the front.

I'm thinking of using four of the 46w Fluval Plant lights, two across the back and two across the front. They are controllable so I could dim them down as much as I needed to. I've used them before (that's what is on the tank above) and I do like them.

I'm not sure that will be enough light. The coverage would be fine though. I know the tank is 60cm deep but I don't plan to have any carpet plants in this one (open front) but I will have Anubias and Crypts low down. The only reference I've been able to find has the Fluval Plant 46w light at an estimated 25 par at 24 inch deep, but that is on full power in the hot spot, so it will be a lot less than that if I turn the lights down to something like 30%-50%. I am guessing around 10 par.

What does everyone think?

 

[Mark.A]

I previously had a 6x2x2 fully planted and it was low tech. I only used a sand substrate with root tabs, basic cheap lighting and TNC complete daily.

I got really good growth and it looked good however I did only keep easy plants.

The 2 biggest issues I found was stocking the tank with plants as you need a HUGE amount for a tankTNC that size and getting enough flow around the tank was a little tricky

I'll be using a dirt/peat mixed substrate capped with gravel. I can then top the nutrients up with root tabs if needed.

As for ferts I'd probably go with the TNC Lite as I used that before. I used the TNC Lite because of the heavy fish load and feeding, so I didn't really need added nitrate/phosphate.

It is going to require buying a lot of plants up front in order to have it that heavily planted from the start. I am currently looking at a cost of nearly £800 for the plants.

I'm not sure about the flow. I am going to be using two of the Oase BioMaster 2 Thermo 600 filters. Does anyone think they would provide enough flow? If not then I can look at adding flow pumps but I don't want the flow to be too strong as I want a large group of Angelfish.

 

[Mattant1984]

I'll be using a dirt/peat mixed substrate capped with gravel. I can then top the nutrients up with root tabs if needed.

As for ferts I'd probably go with the TNC Lite as I used that before. I used the TNC Lite because of the heavy fish load and feeding, so I didn't really need added nitrate/phosphate.

It is going to require buying a lot of plants up front in order to have it that heavily planted from the start. I am currently looking at a cost of nearly £800 for the plants.

I'm not sure about the flow. I am going to be using two of the Oase BioMaster 2 Thermo 600 filters. Does anyone think they would provide enough flow? If not then I can look at adding flow pumps but I don't want the flow to be too strong as I want a large group of Angelfish.

I actually had 2 biomaster 600s running on mine and the flow was pretty decent I just ended up with a few dead spots.
Oddly enough I also had a large group of angels and they were fine with the flow, they seemed to swim about naturally and would regularly spawn

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am currently looking at a cost of nearly £800 for the plants.

You may be able to get a bulk order via a wholesaler?

cheers Darrel

 

[Mark.A]

I actually had 2 biomaster 600s running on mine and the flow was pretty decent I just ended up with a few dead spots.
Oddly enough I also had a large group of angels and they were fine with the flow, they seemed to swim about naturally and would regularly spawn

Yeah, I figured they would be okay with the Biomaster flow, it's more if I have to add flow pumps as well that it would concern me.

 

[Mark.A]

Hi all,

You may be able to get bulk order via a wholesaler?

cheers Darrel

Yeah, I'm going to try and bulk order what I can but it's getting all the plants I want all at the same time.

 

[Andy Pierce]

With a big tank like that I would go with injected CO2. You don't have to drive it all the way to 30ppm - even boosting a bit to 10ppm will take the growth difficulty edge off your plants. EasyCarbo is a nice algaecide but doesn't add any meaningful amount of plant-useful carbon so isn't really a substitute for injected CO2 gas.

 

[Mark.A]

With a big tank like that I would go with injected CO2. You don't have to drive it all the way to 30ppm - even boosting a bit to 10ppm will take the growth difficulty edge off your plants. EasyCarbo is a nice algaecide but doesn't add any meaningful amount of plant-useful carbon so isn't really a substitute for injected CO2 gas.

That would be another option. I could get a CO2 bottle, reg, etc. and just dose a very low amount. The bottle would last a good while that way. It is still adding in a little extra cost and a CO2 bottle to get re-filled or replaced. The question is would it make enough difference to using some EasyCarbo to make it worth it? The EasyCarbo also provides the anti-algal function as well, so unless you do both then you'd lose that.

 

[Andy Pierce]

You can do both if you feel you have an algae problem that benefits from EasyCarbo. Most people here would tell you to fix the underlying problem causing algae though and not use EasyCarbo at all.

 

[Mark.A]

What flow pump (or pumps) would people recommend to run alongside the two filters to provide enough flow without making it too much for the Angelfish? ...or do you think just the two filters would be enough?

 

[Mark.A]

I was going to go with two of the AI Nero 3 pumps. They are controllable so I can turn them right down and only turn them up as high as the Angelfish are okay with. I can have them vary in power as well so they're not always going to be a lot of flow for the Angelfish. Hopefully that would be okay.

 

[DioramaDieHard]

I personally would go for a low tech tank - I always find them easier to maintain and also more connected to nature in some ways as well. In terms of filtration, I wouldn't worry much at all. You seem to already have enough filtration capacity, plus heavy planting and a deep substrate layer and beneficial bacteria for nitrogen cycle is not a problem. In terms of actual higher water flow, I have found it not to be particularly essential in low tech tanks. In fact, it can actually have negatives - since it stirs up collected detritus(which you want to keep) and can disturb the stratification of the substrate over time, hence more pumps would not be necessary. As long as there is some surface agitation of the water and slow flow around the aquarium all is well. Have you considered including a few fast growing stem bunches such as limnophila sessiliflora or perhaps placing some house plants like pothos on monstera with roots dangling into the aquarium? It seems that a fast growing nutrient absorbing plant like one of these would help. Majority of plants you suggested(Echinodorus, Crypts) are all heavy root feeders but slow growing and so after locking down a nutrient rich base layer with sand or aquasoil powder it seems your next priority would be to keep nutrients in the water column to a minimum. Thats where a temporary fast growing stem or houseplant could really help absorb excess nitrates etc, thus preventing algae that would otherwise take hold in a low tech environment. Furthermore, for nutrients I would only regularly dose micronutrients and maybe phosphorus. Nitrates would only be dosed if you spot a clear nutrient deficiency in that aspect. Hope that helps! Great looking tanks by the way!

 

[JohnCooke]

Unless you decide to keep difficult plants, I doubt whether you need CO2. My experience of keeping a 4 foot heavily stocked tank, albeit with easy plants, suggests otherwise. A good substrate, plenty of fish feeding, and something like TNC light will let you do well. You can regulate the lighting intensity via floating plants of course!

Not sure about water changes adding CO2. I do 25-50% water changes each week, because of my heavy stocking, and not seen bursts of algae growth.

 

[JohnCooke]

 Sorry- meant to add these as well. Doesn't look heavily stocked but has 85 to 90 fish!

 

[Oldguy]

I'm looking at getting a 6ft x 2ft x 2ft tank

Tanks look good. DIY ferts are the way to go, over the counter are a rip off. Look up Estimated Index. Low Tech with heavy planting may result in plants melting as they run out of CO2 (plants turning CO2 into leaves and stems faster that the gas can be replaced from the atmosphere. Bottled CO2 is not expensive if you buy cylinders for the hospitality trade. High Tech does not mean expensive lights. Several good hydroponic LEDs on eBay, choose those with narrow beams so the light can hit the substrate. Amazon Sword plants are thugs.
Good luck with your new tank.

 

[Mark.A]

Tanks look good. DIY ferts are the way to go, over the counter are a rip off. Look up Estimated Index. Low Tech with heavy planting may result in plants melting as they run out of CO2 (plants turning CO2 into leaves and stems faster that the gas can be replaced from the atmosphere. Bottled CO2 is not expensive if you buy cylinders for the hospitality trade. High Tech does not mean expensive lights. Several good hydroponic LEDs on eBay, choose those with narrow beams so the light can hit the substrate. Amazon Sword plants are thugs.
Good luck with your new tank.

Thanks. I have looked at doing the EI Ferts, you can see the discussion here.

The plants suffering as they run out of carbon happens because the plants are faster growing and/or have too much light so they are trying to grow more leaves but there is not enough carbon for them to grow them with. It's nothing to do with low tech and being heavily planted. It's too much light and/or the wrong plants in low tech that causes it.

The idea with the low-med light, low tech approach is that the light is kept low enough and the plants are slow growing enough that they use very little carbon and other nutrients. The low dosing of the TNC Lite should be enough to cover the minimal needs of the slow growing plants and there may already be enough carbon in the water (from waste, etc.) for them as well or you can dose the EasyCarbo to give them a little bit more carbon if needed. You could just dose a minimal amount of actual CO2 instead of using the EasyCarbo to provide a small boost of carbon to the plants. Either way should work, so long as the plants are slow growing and the light is low enough so that there is nothing growing fast enough to use up all the minimal available carbon.

This is the balance that you see loads of people talk about in planted tanks - the balance between the light, nutrients and the requirements and growth rate of the plants. Where I see people often go wrong is they try to have low tech tanks that have med-high lights over them, med-high light plants and/or fast growing plants. The plants then suffer because there is nowhere near enough carbon for that.

What do you mean about the Amazon Sword plants? Do they go round in gangs beating up the other plants? 😁

 

[JohnCooke]

Low tech with heavy planting may result in plants melting as they run out of CO2 (plants turning CO2 into leaves and stems faster that the gas can be replaced ...

Hmm... yes, "may" do so, but as suggested just above, unlikely to happen with non-difficult plants.

For any beginners reading this thread, heavily planted low tech tanks are very easy, if you select straightforward plants. You'll still need to think about lighting and fish feeding, but CO2 isn't needed for heavy planting.