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Maq's experiment 23b
- Thread starter _Maq_
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- algae fertilization
_Maq_
Member
Here it is.
I've made two changes:
(1) I've reversed the order of tanks. It's no secret I'm biased towards "lean" and "moderate". However, it happened that I left some of the plants from previous experiment in their places, and some of these plants (namely Echinodorus cv. Reni) look discernibly better in tanks A and B than in C and D. Not to be suspected of being biased even more than I actually am, I decided to reverse the order. Tomorrow I'll take the pics and you'll see that plants in tanks A and B look a bit better. Unfortunately, I don't always have enough plants of a given species to select identical individuals.
(2) After a just criticism, I've renamed EI tank to "orange". Now the name is neutral, and anyone can judge the contents without any bias "for" or "against" anything.
The Day Zero is March 4th, tomorrow you'll see the pics and the list of plants.
_Maq_
Member
Yes. If I understand correctly, you mean that I should not limit testing to cations but to extend it to all ions.
In fact, my aim is to check all nutrients one after another. It'll take years. And in the best scenario, I'll collect photo-documentation of all nutrient deficiencies on multiple species. Well, dreams I have, indeed.
MichaelJ
Member
Could you please please change the order back to what it used to be! there are sooo many posts already in this thread that are referring to A, B, C and D - assuming the A/B are the leans and the C the "EI tank"...
Also, I think you should make the "Insane" tank similar to the "Orange tank" ... except for the NH4... I.e. Orange tank all N from NO3. ... "Insane Tank" add NH4.
Cheers,
Michael
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_Maq_
Member
You know, this has been a new and interesting experience to me. I mean, discussing the experiment with other folks. Normally, I spend a week or so contemplating the next experiment while the present one is still running. And writing an article about it (in Czech language, yes, that's my weakness). I can tell you, in spite of all method and diligence, every test is somehow surprising, and a bit unsuccessful. When looking back, I always know that I could do something better.
This time, quite a few people visited this thread and left their remarks and opinions. Any and each of them were reasoned well, logical in their lines. Yet it was no brainstorming like sitting in one room and not leaving unless we reach generally accepted consensus. People came, left a post, and left; I never knew if and when they come back (in time). And, I admit, my aims as I presented them were multiple, not focused on one and only issue. Such an approach is always risky, but it's the expression of certain economy: Each experiment occupies my workshop for approx. three months, and questions abound. At the same time - you can't completely follow - my experiments form certain line, approximation and enhancement of my previous results.
So, please accept my apology - not only you but all of you who contributed to this very stimulating discussion - that I failed to fulfill your well-intended suggestions. After all, this is the first instance we work together like this, and next time - I believe there'll be some 'next time' - we'll be a bit more experienced.
In any case, this experiment will tell us something. I strongly believe we'll get something meaningful, worthy a discussion, perhaps an argument, and leading to formulating new theories, perhaps suggestions for further experimenting.
And, who knows, maybe some of you realize that experiments of this kind are not that terribly time-consuming nor expensive and that you could join the ranks of amateur-researchers.
Anyway, this experiment has already begun, and its design is settled. I'll keep you informed, and any sign of interest from your side will be a great encouragement.
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MichaelJ
Member
Well, that is your choice. I am just saying... well, what I already said above... I don't think it will ruin your experiment by changing the Orange and Insane tanks up a bit.... its not like we're going to run out of thruster fuel before we can land on Mars or something
I don't want to be all doom and gloom about this, but I fear the lean crowd (which includes myself) will be following your lean tanks and the EI crowd wont really care and will not favor any conclusions either way... While it may stroke our egos and support our predispositions, it essentially means that the casual observer wont really be able to learn anything from this. Again, it's my fear. I hope I will be wrong. We do not have a lot of opportunities to do experiments like this.
Cheers,
Michael
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_Maq_
Member
Rational arguments are usually inefficient when you seek to change one's mind. That's the bitter truth of this world, and that's why Marcel left this hobby. People in my country were mean to him, and later just as mean to me and expelled me from their ranks. I'm more resilient than Marcel. I've realized that this hobby and my research are an amazing adventure of mine. Other people's attacks may hurt, that's true. But I'm not doing it to persuade anybody about anything, that would be wrong. I do it because I love learning and I want to know.
After all, I have noticed that in my country, having written articles and not directly arguing with anybody, my research did influence general perceptions regarding certain topics. So, even in this sense it's not completely wasted time. You simply must not expect that it works at once, during an argument.
hypnogogia
Member
That depends on the individual. Some are influenced by rationality, others when speaking to the heart.
_Maq_
Member
Monocots: Cryptocoryne wendtii Rubella, Egeria densa, Echinodorus cv. Reni, Sagittaria platyphylla, Tonina fluviatilis, Vallisneria spiralis
Dicots: Ammannia pedicellata Gold, Bacopa lanigera, Hygrophila corymbosa siamensis Brown, Hygrophila lancea, Rotala rotundifolia Orange Juice, Rotala wallichii
Dicots: Ammannia pedicellata Gold, Bacopa lanigera, Hygrophila corymbosa siamensis Brown, Hygrophila lancea, Rotala rotundifolia Orange Juice, Rotala wallichii
once you have too much evidence to prove something, it leaves no room for an arguments. I been on the same boat, I tried very hard to convince others but they didn't believe in anything until they were shown the evidence and to support that evidence, they had to do their own experiments to validate it. if for whatever reason I still couldn't convince them, it was their loss, not mine.
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
I think it is really difficult to get people to <"change their opinions">, and our best hope is to try and persuade people to try things for themselves and then make up their own minds.
I know <"we fell out with Marcel"> as a forum (and I understand why), but purely personally I think <"he had a lot to offer"> and I'm sorry that he isn't still active.
cheers Darrel
hypnogogia
Member
There’s actually evidence that some people become even more entrenched in their views when confronted with strong, rational counter evidence. It’s what makes de radicalising people so difficult.
_Maq_
Member
I think I know what you mean. Let it be. He's a good guy, but he opted to leave. God bless him. He used to be my source of inspiration, and I'll be always grateful for that.
I suggest to leave these (mostly) gloomy social observations. This thread was designed for something else.
So,
I believe you took a look at the photographs. Please note the algae - they are definitely there, but nothing to worry about. During following days and weeks, we'll observe whether an algae attack occurs.
At this moment, I wonder what pH will turn up. I'll take first measurements on Tuesday - day 3 - and then on Saturday, day before water change. I expect nitrification will scavenge bicarbonates and push pH down. The big question is the speed and volume of nitrification, esp. in tank insane, with ammonium (and bicarbonate) concentration I'm truly not familiar with. I expect remarkable pH fluctuation in this tank.
Another topic, still open for discussion, is dosing micros. I've been thinking about it and realized that I simply will have to reflect the fact that phosphate and bicarbonate concentrations in tanks A and B are much higher than I'm used to. I think I'll dose all micros except iron on Thursday, and iron on Friday. I still hesitate, how much of each of them. Perhaps pH measurement on Tuesday will offer a clue.
_Maq_
Member
NEW ORDER 📢
_Maq_
Member
Yes. You can take it for INITIAL state.
any possibility that you scrape off all the algae's from all those tanks and let the new one form ? this is just to compare the outbreak on all those tanks at different settings. thank you
Wookii
Member
+1 to @Happi’s suggestion - it’s going to be very difficult to judge new algal growth if the glass is already covered to start with 👍🏻
MichaelJ
Member
