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Finally ... feeling happy :).
- Thread starter JoshP12
- Start date
Cait1
New Member
I think your fish and plants are feeling happy too! Lovely.
mrhoyo
Member
That looks really good, I can't tell if it's more like a garden or a coral reef!
Really beautiful tank with some very interesting fish! 😍 Would be you able to tell us about your experience with the gobies? I would love to keep some rainbow or blue gobies in my planted tank, but there isn't much info about them online in that setting. How has it worked for you?
Thank you everyone for the love and comments.
This was April 21 (prior to rescape):
Some observations of issues with form:
This was April 22 (the photos originally posted were taken may 28).
This was April 30:
Massive stunting issues in Wallichi may 2:
May 5 (realization of poor lighting spread):
+ fix: 
May 6 (ugly macrandra but response is strong to new light):
Also wallichi: 
Also Guyana:
@Alex Papp --'Guyana' Myriophyllum 'Guyana' - Tropica Aquarium Plants
Older issues with macrandra (leggy and minor stunting):
May 17 (begin to play with nutrients -- GH/KH ... N/P/K ... Micro ... timing of dosage ... acknowledge dynamic system):
May 18 (playing with spectrum):
May 26 (a new issue --- wondering the delay of a systemic response):
May 26/27 (another wrench -- lights + beam spread + distribution + spectrum fixed):
May 27 (a stunting response ... associated with phosphate? When I replanted stems I didn't get that one in the dirt ... redirection of nutrients - specifically phosphate - for root formation -- didn't react):
May 29 (light's aren't on yet, but the stunting fixed itself last night -- "de stunted" ... roots very likely hit the soil and/or adaption to new light -- this change also associated with increased coloration in the plants across the board ... white to redirection of nutrients, defense mechanism, roots, nutrient availability -- stability -- re colour up ... looked much better last night):
was able to attach two photos to show de stunting.
Gotta tell my reefer friend that ... he's convinced that salt water is more beautiful!!!!
My system isn't "for" goby's and I am sorry to admit this. Goby come from "higher KH" water ... now it's fine since these were bred locally so the people use our tap water ... so they can adapt.
The issue with the Goby in low KH I think is not AS important as low KH water WITH CO2 INJECTION. That CO2 injection takes the role of archea and bacteria in nature ... so we saturate the system shifting the actual pH of the system. pH will tell us about how "acidic/basic" the water is ... that acid-base equilibrium will dictate the efficacy of all cellular function - to some degree. So, the Goby is likely fine in any water - though maybe not happy happy to breed - but when we include CO2 injection, we have to consider the pH since their physiology has been adapted to higher KH environment. As a result, their ability to exchange O2/CO2 will likely be dependent on that "value". Some fish are "ok" with lower pH values but some species of plants really do like lower KH ... due to their evolutionary tools --- and so putting these fish in with plants that require lower KH, means that we have "less" of a buffer to drop pH (since the Goby can't handle it).
Often, people associate rainbow goby with "high oxygen" environments or rivers. But what affects the O2/CO2 exchange is pH of the outer environment and the inner. We have buffers in our blood to take care of these things, and I have some papers (and can dig them if you want) about specifics with the fish (I ended up finding this one on the web: http://brauner.sites.olt.ubc.ca/fil...l-Interaction-between-O2-and-CO2-exchange.pdf) -- but like we don't need to gas our fish for the sake of the plants. It's not so simple to say pH outside and pH inside as the dynamic nature of the system also needs to consider O2 concentrations ... and this is seemingly why systems with wet/dry filtration can use high injection rates from the get go and ignore ramps (like we sometimes do in higher KH water) --- At the same time, when we introduce ramps up and ramp down in our lighting systems we manipulate O2 production and the game of tag (CO2 consumption vs O2 production) is thrown ANOTHER variable -- and our fish suffer. So it becomes a game of economics (do fish want a 2 hour ramp up ... or is 10 minutes sufficient? Or do they even care since we may gas them if our system is insufficient).
To maximize and cater to this idea of O2 production, I would run lights at full blast from the get go (I have to do 10 minute ramp because that's what my light does minimum and I like that) that will get those plants going. So we can get to that low pH ASAP but also cater to the O2 production to help the fish and bacteria. In terms of temperature, it becomes the same -- cold temperature reduce metabolic rates -- OF PLANTS TOO -- so the metabolism of the plant drops and we lose O2 production. We need that O2 for everyone's sake - so I would run temperatures at least 25 celcius -- I think I am 26.
To maximize fish health, especially when we are doing something wrong - like putting Goby's in soft water - I think temperature, light timing are important SINCE they directly impact O2 production and that simply allows us to pump in more CO2 to cater to the plants. We also want to consider the impact that Ca/Mg/K on fish physiology as well (and also plants) -- I think this is more of a range, but these mineral are going to affect pressures: in nature, these minerals are constantly being replenished at low rates ... so even if those papers "say" 1ppm Ca in water column, it isn't the whole picture - an arboreal view tells us that it is ALWAYS 1 ppm. And so if we try our best to keep our parameters as stable as we can, everything will benefit - including bacteria and plants.
TLDR: If you keep Goby in "low KH water with co2 injection", then your "drop checker" should be green/blue as the proxy drop will be "correct" ... the fish will be fine as the efficacy of CO2 acquisition in low KH water increases immensely. (The other details are also important but I spoke to them above)
If you keep Goby in "low KH water without co2 inject", it will be fine (at least it was in my low-tech tank for a few years).
If you keep Goby in "high KH water with CO2 inject" (I have no experience doing this), I reckon it will be fine -- BUT certain plants that are not adapted to that environment may struggle ... unless - and I'm hypothesizing - you plummet your pH so low that anything but the plants will survive.
Sorry @shangman, I didn't mean to go on there for that long, but those are my thoughts 🙂.
Josh
This was April 21 (prior to rescape):
Some observations of issues with form:
This was April 22 (the photos originally posted were taken may 28).
This was April 30:
Massive stunting issues in Wallichi may 2:
May 5 (realization of poor lighting spread):
+ fix: May 6 (ugly macrandra but response is strong to new light):
Also wallichi: Also Guyana:
@Alex Papp --'Guyana' Myriophyllum 'Guyana' - Tropica Aquarium PlantsOlder issues with macrandra (leggy and minor stunting):
May 17 (begin to play with nutrients -- GH/KH ... N/P/K ... Micro ... timing of dosage ... acknowledge dynamic system):
May 18 (playing with spectrum):
May 26 (a new issue --- wondering the delay of a systemic response):
May 26/27 (another wrench -- lights + beam spread + distribution + spectrum fixed):
May 27 (a stunting response ... associated with phosphate? When I replanted stems I didn't get that one in the dirt ... redirection of nutrients - specifically phosphate - for root formation -- didn't react):
May 29 (light's aren't on yet, but the stunting fixed itself last night -- "de stunted" ... roots very likely hit the soil and/or adaption to new light -- this change also associated with increased coloration in the plants across the board ... white to redirection of nutrients, defense mechanism, roots, nutrient availability -- stability -- re colour up ... looked much better last night):
was able to attach two photos to show de stunting.
🙂
Thanks!
🙂Looking great
Gotta tell my reefer friend that ... he's convinced that salt water is more beautiful!!!!
Of course 🙂 -- these are my thoughts:
My system isn't "for" goby's and I am sorry to admit this. Goby come from "higher KH" water ... now it's fine since these were bred locally so the people use our tap water ... so they can adapt.
The issue with the Goby in low KH I think is not AS important as low KH water WITH CO2 INJECTION. That CO2 injection takes the role of archea and bacteria in nature ... so we saturate the system shifting the actual pH of the system. pH will tell us about how "acidic/basic" the water is ... that acid-base equilibrium will dictate the efficacy of all cellular function - to some degree. So, the Goby is likely fine in any water - though maybe not happy happy to breed - but when we include CO2 injection, we have to consider the pH since their physiology has been adapted to higher KH environment. As a result, their ability to exchange O2/CO2 will likely be dependent on that "value". Some fish are "ok" with lower pH values but some species of plants really do like lower KH ... due to their evolutionary tools --- and so putting these fish in with plants that require lower KH, means that we have "less" of a buffer to drop pH (since the Goby can't handle it).
Often, people associate rainbow goby with "high oxygen" environments or rivers. But what affects the O2/CO2 exchange is pH of the outer environment and the inner. We have buffers in our blood to take care of these things, and I have some papers (and can dig them if you want) about specifics with the fish (I ended up finding this one on the web: http://brauner.sites.olt.ubc.ca/fil...l-Interaction-between-O2-and-CO2-exchange.pdf) -- but like we don't need to gas our fish for the sake of the plants. It's not so simple to say pH outside and pH inside as the dynamic nature of the system also needs to consider O2 concentrations ... and this is seemingly why systems with wet/dry filtration can use high injection rates from the get go and ignore ramps (like we sometimes do in higher KH water) --- At the same time, when we introduce ramps up and ramp down in our lighting systems we manipulate O2 production and the game of tag (CO2 consumption vs O2 production) is thrown ANOTHER variable -- and our fish suffer. So it becomes a game of economics (do fish want a 2 hour ramp up ... or is 10 minutes sufficient? Or do they even care since we may gas them if our system is insufficient).
To maximize and cater to this idea of O2 production, I would run lights at full blast from the get go (I have to do 10 minute ramp because that's what my light does minimum and I like that) that will get those plants going. So we can get to that low pH ASAP but also cater to the O2 production to help the fish and bacteria. In terms of temperature, it becomes the same -- cold temperature reduce metabolic rates -- OF PLANTS TOO -- so the metabolism of the plant drops and we lose O2 production. We need that O2 for everyone's sake - so I would run temperatures at least 25 celcius -- I think I am 26.
To maximize fish health, especially when we are doing something wrong - like putting Goby's in soft water - I think temperature, light timing are important SINCE they directly impact O2 production and that simply allows us to pump in more CO2 to cater to the plants. We also want to consider the impact that Ca/Mg/K on fish physiology as well (and also plants) -- I think this is more of a range, but these mineral are going to affect pressures: in nature, these minerals are constantly being replenished at low rates ... so even if those papers "say" 1ppm Ca in water column, it isn't the whole picture - an arboreal view tells us that it is ALWAYS 1 ppm. And so if we try our best to keep our parameters as stable as we can, everything will benefit - including bacteria and plants.
TLDR: If you keep Goby in "low KH water with co2 injection", then your "drop checker" should be green/blue as the proxy drop will be "correct" ... the fish will be fine as the efficacy of CO2 acquisition in low KH water increases immensely. (The other details are also important but I spoke to them above)
If you keep Goby in "low KH water without co2 inject", it will be fine (at least it was in my low-tech tank for a few years).
If you keep Goby in "high KH water with CO2 inject" (I have no experience doing this), I reckon it will be fine -- BUT certain plants that are not adapted to that environment may struggle ... unless - and I'm hypothesizing - you plummet your pH so low that anything but the plants will survive.
Sorry @shangman, I didn't mean to go on there for that long, but those are my thoughts 🙂.
Josh
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Thank you for such a detailed response, it really useful to hear about your experiences with the gobies in a hightech planted aquarium. 😍 It's a really beautiful aquascape, amazing plants!!
One last cheeky question, I have read that people often cultivate algae-covered rocks for their gobies, or just keep rocks in general for them to eat from. What do your gobies eat, and where is their favourite place in the aquarium?
One last cheeky question, I have read that people often cultivate algae-covered rocks for their gobies, or just keep rocks in general for them to eat from. What do your gobies eat, and where is their favourite place in the aquarium?
🙂.
This lil' lady likes to dig up my HC carpet:
These guys were just in there:
Algae wafer:
Lol:
Also, on the note for Hydrocotyle ... fixed it (as mentioned in above post) --- the way was to create more concentrated CSM +B solution to make sure that my 1/16 tsp got the proper "ratio/amounts" from the plantex mix. So instead of 1/16 tsp or whatever in 3L of water, I did like 3 tsp and reduce dosage -- made huge impact across the board. Even on Downoi.
And that "old" repens was fixed upon fixing water column concentrations and implementations of fertilizer.
I will post more on the lines of food and how to feed these guys - and my general realizations soon - but wanted to get the post started.
Cheers,
Josh
EDIT: Along the lines of food, we read a lot about Urea (which is excellent fertilizer as the enzyme Urease - also found in plants - will cleave the Urea into both CO2 and Ammonia ... so the plants get CO2 for free just by sucking up some fish waste) and people worrying about "overfeeding" --- I used to worry about putting in algae wafers because they wouldn't get eaten. This was because my CO2 was too high and my fish were uncomfortable. Easing back on the CO2 - in my case - allowed my fish to feel more comfortable and to eat more ... as a result producing more waste and as a result feeding more CO2 to the plants through absorption. Further, the higher pH that I favored - due to lower CO2 in the water column - gave rise to better biological functions ... as a result again more CO2 liberated to the column by bacteria and even more symbiotic relations. Further, RuBiSco functionality is stronger at higher pH.
Now, it is important to note that my KH is 30ppm ... in a higher KH tank, it may be necessary to drive higher concentrations of CO2 to get that pH proper for your plants ... -- but then you should not have to worry about all those other factors.
I also don't want visible algae in my tanks. And I also don't think I want rocks or driftwood (unless a little chunk somewhere for Plecos to eat etc). So this strategy works for me.
I keep higher stocking levels for fish now, and feed heavy --- everyone is happier since the fish have more friends and my plants have more urea.
I will drop an algae wafer in every now and then - sometimes twice a day - as I am walking by and also feed pellets on during feeding time.
Josh
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I didn't know that RuBisCO works better at a higher pH... Will the enzyme never work optimally in a low pH slightly acid (and low kH) tank?? So when CO2 is added in the daytime, lowering pH, we denature RuBisCO slightly, and when the pH rises at
night RuBisCO could work perfectly... but there is no light so no ATP and ribulose 1,5-biphosphate synthesised nor CO2 so, no substrate made for it😭
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Well, I will share:
I let my pH swing up to 7.4/7.6 during photoperiod.
I only get this soldier look when I let this happen:
Edit this too:
The equivalent is turning off the gas at the “fill up” point of plants and letting them use up the co2.
In nature, pH is low at night and high at noon.
Josh
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