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Hi ! newbie with new tank and confused !

P

Pysgodyn

Member
Joined
20 Jun 2017
Messages
35
Location
South Wales
Hi All,

I'm new to all this, so while I've read stuff (books & online), I'm unsure of a few things. Advice would be great ! I'm Trying for a low tech planted temperate community tank, so no CO2 injection, and fish like WCMM, zebra danios etc.

I have a stock Juwel 110L tank (80*30*40), so it has the glued-in internal filter (with new filter media) and a 400 l/m pump. Stock 100W heater and dual T8 lighting (1 daylight, 1 warm; 18W).

So I've put in some tropica clay substrate (1cm) with a black small gravel covering (3cm ish), some Mopani wood (soaked in warm water only for a day, so still leaching tannins) and a small bit of (washed) slate that I had knocking around.

I've zip-ted the wood together (not 100% sure if that plastic is aquarium safe) and ziptied(!) some anubius to it.
I filled it (with tap conditioner) and planted a few bits and pieces on Friday and have been dosing with fluval cycle stuff. Other plants include vallis, cabomba and bacopa at the back. then 2 things I forgot the name of !

So I'm 4 days in. The tank is nearish a shady north window. I don't have any plant specific fert's or other chemicals.
I measured a 7.6 ph, medium ish hardness, a little nitrate.
No fish yet, but I have 4 young white cloud minnos in another tank waiting to go in asap (along with the tiny filter and probably at least the top layer the substrate of their current little tank.)

Questions...

(1) The water circulation from the filter pump isn't very strong.... should I put a power head in, if so where in the tank ? (maybe a koralia nano 600 or a ehiem 650, the latter could be more flexible, but a harsher flow?)
I think the fish would enjoy more current.
I believe that the plants may need more current too ?

(2) Do I need to go buy plant ferts now ? if so what ?

(3) It seems that I may not want to have strong oxygenation given the plants, so no venture or air stones ?

(4) should I expect plants to re-adjust and thus look a bit ill ? (ie lose some leaves)

(5) Could I put the WCMM in early to help the filter cycle ? they seem to me to be a fairly low bio load ? they seem quite hardy so should survive the cycling ?

I'd try to post a picture of the setup later !

Any answers to any of these questions much appreciated. (I fear I will end up with a tank of dead fish and rotting vegetation as I'm so clueless. )

G.
 
Hi and welcome to UKAPS;)

1. You could put a powerhead in to increase circulation and if you position it appropriately it could also help with surface agitation to increase oxygenation.

2. I always recommend using fertz with soil since plants can folia feed as well as uptake nutrients through their roots; it makes horticultural sense to feed both sites.
You can use dry salts or ready mixed products. Your tank is small enough to make it economically sensible to use ready mixed. Use about 1/10 to 1/5 the recommended dose. TNC Complete is good value for money.

3. See 1 above.

4. There usually is some melt while plants get used to new conditions, just stay on top of tank husbandry and remove DOM to help prevent organic build up and algae.

5. Don't put any fish or critters in until your nitrites and ammonia are reading pretty much zero. The ammonia given off by the substrate, and the bacteria on plant roots etc will be enough to inoculate your tank and filter, and start the cycling process.

Planting as densely as possible will make your life easier especially whilst the tank matures. Floating quick growing stems will also help, as will using floaters.

If you haven't already, check out the Tutorials section for more info and ongoing reference.
 
Only to add, if low tech planted is your goal don't be afraid of reducing the amount of time the lights are on either. Most people think light is the key and plants love lights but so do algae. Start of with maybe 5-6 hours if you're getting some sunlight and slowly raise if no problems rear their heads. Timers are handy because you can usually raise the timing quarter of an hour at a time.
 
Hi and welcome!

I second @Tim Harrison 's answers.

Also, I wouldn't add any creatures to the tank for at least 6 weeks. After that you should add fish slowly to allow the bacteria in the filter to adapt to the new bio-load.

Cycling in planted tanks is a bit different from what we usually read in most websites/books, as plants can absorb a lot of ammonia & nitrites present in the water. This means you may not see high levels when testing the water (specially if you have fast growing plants), but they will still be present in the water and can stress (if not harm/kill) the fish.

One of the most important things to learn in this hobby is patience...
 
Hi and welcome :) look forward to your pics ... from your post you have already been doing your research which will always make it easier in the long run, great advice already here, so I would just second the wait to add live stock until the tank is cycled.
 
Thanks for the advice and welcome All !
I'll try to post a picture tonight. You can help me identify a few plants......

I'll look to get some liquid fert. and give low doses.
Do any of these 'liquid carbon' formulations make a difference for a low tech tank?

Would fewer water changes help the tank mature/cycle in it's plants but no fish phase ?
Seems 10-15% a week is recommended for a planted tank, unless water tests etc. suggests more is needed.
Would larger water changes (25%) be an idea when I first add fish ?

The filter has a small carbon element in it at the moment, partly to see if it might help the water colour (tannins) stay fairly clear - I don't mind it being slightly coloured, but don't want it to look like tea !
Would the Carbon tend to strip the water of plant nutrients ? esp. if I use a liquid fert ?
I read that you should replace carbon regularly as it can start to release trapped matter when old.
I partly hope to not need to use it.

I already have been keeping lighting very low, (a few hours in the evening) as I'm very wary of algae blooms, especially at the start while the tank is settling in. My little tank with the 4 WCMM had a full on algae bloom a little while ago. (I may buy some algae scraper tools)
Would these liquid carbon additives help moderate algae in the first weeks ?

G.
 
Hi
Liquid carbon is an effective algae killer.But having said that is not a miracle additive and not effective against all.It does the job when spot treating hardscape and some plants but there are some plants that are sensitive towards it and will melt.Adding liquid carbon also changes the tank to not being not so low tech as the demand for nutrients increases.I will stay away from it till U get more experience.
The water change regime for planted tanks is actually 50%plus per week.The 10 -15% is more for shrimp only tanks.Having said that 25% is not enough volume to change for a new tank.U shold go for 50% plus per week as a minimum.More frequent the better .Good cleaning of debris and large wc is the best way to keep algae at bay.
Regards Konsa
 
I have never had a low tech tank, but I would advise to do a bit of research about "light period siesta" and it's benefits regarding CO2 in low tech tanks.

Also, water change (WC) schedule in a planted tank should be something like this:
  • Week 1
    • 50% WC daily
  • Week 2
    • 50% WC every other day
  • Weeks 3 & 4
    • 2 weekly x 50% WC
  • Week 5 & after
    • 1 weekly 50% WC

As for the Juwel internal filter, I got a Juwel Rio 240 this week and I'm already trying to find the best way to remove it... from a few reviews I've seen, it can get pretty messy and it's really hard to clean the casing properly.
 
Last edited:
kadoxu said:
As for the Juwel internal filter, I got a Juwel Rio 240 this week and I'm already trying to find the best way to remove it... from a few reviews I've seen, it can get pretty messy and it's really hard to clean the casing properly.
Click to expand...
Cut off using a knife blade inserted between the glass and filter.

Remove as much as possible silicone using a knife then use silicone eater to remove the left over silicone. Rinse thoroughly...add fish...done.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-sealant-remover-100ml/88987

Leaves the glass & plastic spotless.

I glued mine back in using JBL aquatic silicone. That was in 2003 odd. Only on last year or two has it come loose, glue stuck to glass but not plastic.
 
Hi all.
I am running couple of low techs for a while.
I will advice against a siesta as this may has its advantages as CO2 is conserned but also causes constant fluctuations in CO2 and all the algae related problems like bba and staghorn.In my oppinion there isn't much point to flap about CO2 thats why is low tech.One continous light period with sufficient surface agitation providing good gas exchange with low but constant CO2 levels is much easier manageable for unexperienced aquarist.
Regards Konsa
 
hi again,

OK so maybe change more water than i thought.

I intend to keep the internal filter. i might consider a slightly larger impeller.
i do want more water movement in the tank, but hard to know how much and what type of pump.

i have poor pictures, what do you think the two plants are in the close up ?

also given the photo, where might you suggest i locate an extra pump ? i've read that flow through plants might help them, if not too fierce.

i don't know if any local shops have any different plants, i might have a look again friday.

g.
 

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following up from tim's post, any advice about floating plants ? i'd want hardy and ok at 18-20 deg with low co2.

if i've understood things, less light = less growth = less nutritional demand = less co2 needed ?
Also, fluctuating co2, high nitrates/phosphate + lots of light / sunlight = algae ?

cheers all, time to go back to the garden with beer and snooze in the sun.

g.
 
Pysgodyn said:
if i've understood things, less light = less growth = less nutritional demand = less co2 needed ?
Also, fluctuating co2, high nitrates/phosphate + lots of light / sunlight = algae ?
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much. Have a google for koralia for water movement, cheapers versions are available on online auction sites. Pretty much any floating plants will do ok at those temps but they are notorious for sucking ferts out of the water so keep them in check. Unfortunately it looks to me like some of the plants in your tank are land plants and will dissolve and die eventually. They only live under water for a certain amount of time.
 
AWB, Thanks for the tip. I think I discovered that at least the very small spiky plants in the foreground are likely to not last (no thanks maidenhead aquatics) can't remember the name at the moment.
Do you know what the plants actually are in the 'what' picture ?

I don't seem to have a wide range of plants available locally, so I'll need to investigate further.

Yes, koralia nano's seem to get a good press. My other thought was somthing like an ehiem 650, it will have a harsher flow (no idea if you can put a spray bar on I ?). but I could also add a filter easily to it if I think I need more mechanical filtration.
 
No problem buddy, a lot of fish stores do it because they look nice and some people buy them because they grow them sticking out the water. I would like to think the store sells them with good intentions but the cynic in me says they should tell you when you buy. Not 100% but I'm pretty sure the two circled are spider plants of some description. Better getting them out sooner rather than later, when they start to fall apart they add unnecessary waste to the tank.

For sure if you're going to pump some water might as well be something with a sponge in it and benefit from the extra bio filtration. Obviously this adds a bit of work cleaning it every now and again and adds bulky equipment to the tank. People tend to use Koralia or similar because they are small and easily hidden behind tall plants and only need the impeller cleaned every few weeks.

Selection_002.png
 
Konsa said:
Hi
the fern looking ones behind the plant in the sircle on left is terrestrial too and also is better taken out or get a hanging baskets to grow them above water.
Regards Konsa
Click to expand...

Yeah, wasn't sure about those. They look very similar to some aquatic plants I've seen before but the picture wasn't clear enough.
 
Hi Both,

OK, so the one's I wasn't sure about are probably doomed if left underwater ?!

might they be OK with leaves out in the air, but roots in water (in a suspended pot even ?) - because the smaller tank I have with the WCMM in could be converted to a shrimp tank with these plants 'sticking out' ?

I'll try to take a better picture of the fern like thing.

I'll need to be more careful tomorrow when I'm keen to buy a few more plants, including some to swap out !
Crypts and java ferns were noticeably not in the two shops I looked in, and seem to be classic low light low tech plants.

Anyone know of a good place for plants south east wales ? Cardiff, Newport-ish area. (or towns in the valleys above)

not keen on mail-order as I can imagine a missed delivery being stuck in a delivery office for days and I end up with a box of twigs and rotten leaves.

G.
 
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