Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

[Gfish]

Hi all,

Well, ive had my CO2 up and running for 3 to 4 weeks now and dosing dry ferts for 2 to 3 weeks.

I gradually accustomed my fish to CO2 and have more than double the plants in the tank now too.
After an initial week of half dosing EI, following advised amounts on the james' planted tank guide, the levels have been brought up to me dosing 1.5tspKNO3, 0.5tspKH2PO4, 0.5tspTRACES every 3 days.
My drop checker is now reading a greeny yellow during the lit period which is a total of 8 hours with one tube, a sylvania growlux, and 6 hours with the second tube, a philips bright White.

I noticed that bits of algae which was present in the first week or so had pretty much disappeared, and this week after adding more plants it seems to have returned. It's not bad, and it's only in high areas of the tank on stems of anubias and old leaf edges, but to stop it getting worse I thought I'd pick the brains here before making a tweak of ferts after my weekly water change on Sunday.
I like to only make tweaks at the start of a new week so I can monitor it over a given period.

Overall I'm fairly happy with the plant growth, but as yet I've not seen any pearling. I think I've probably more than doubled my plants so should I up all ferts ????

The tank is 5ft x 2ft x2.5ft high and has much of the plants on bogwood (lots of it!) sitting high in the tank.

Thanks for any help and direction you can offer

Gavin

 

[chilled84]

Re: Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

Hi all,

Well, ive had my CO2 up and running for 3 to 4 weeks now and dosing dry ferts for 2 to 3 weeks.

I gradually accustomed my fish to CO2 and have more than double the plants in the tank now too.
After an initial week of half dosing EI, following advised amounts on the james' planted tank guide, the levels have been brought up to me dosing 1.5tspKNO3, 0.5tspKH2PO4, 0.5tspTRACES every 3 days.
My drop checker is now reading a greeny yellow during the lit period which is a total of 8 hours with one tube, a sylvania growlux, and 6 hours with the second tube, a philips bright White.

I noticed that bits of algae which was present in the first week or so had pretty much disappeared, and this week after adding more plants it seems to have returned. It's not bad, and it's only in high areas of the tank on stems of anubias and old leaf edges, but to stop it getting worse I thought I'd pick the brains here before making a tweak of ferts after my weekly water change on Sunday.
I like to only make tweaks at the start of a new week so I can monitor it over a given period.

Overall I'm fairly happy with the plant growth,

but as yet I've not seen any pearling

. I think I've probably more than doubled my plants so should I up all ferts ????

The tank is 5ft x 2ft x2.5ft high and has much of the plants on bogwood (lots of it!) sitting high in the tank.

Thanks for any help and direction you can offer

Gavin

but as yet I've not seen any pearling

You should not consentrate on the pearling so much. If your plants are growing fine and look good then they are healthy, They dont have to pearl to be at there best. Relax.

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

Hi Gavin,
I totally agree with chilled84. There are too many variables in the equation of pearling to worry about at this stage and it's just not that important.

The cause of the appearance of an algal species is typically determined by knowing what general species it is. Algae attack targets of opportunity. Failure of a plants health is the single biggest target of opportunity. The severity of the the algal attack is directly proportional to the level of health of the plant. That is why flow/distribution, nutrient loading, CO2 and maintenance are so important. Anything that you do in the tank that affects these factors can cause a health failure directly or indirectly. So for example simply adding more plants could easily have affected the flow/distribution or the uptake pattern of CO2 of neighbouring plants.

Adding nutrients causes plants to grow, thereby causing an increase in biomass which then blocks more flow. People operating under illusionary principles often add nutrients to a tank, the plants grow and then algae occurs either due to increased blockage or increased demand for nutrients/CO2 which go unmet. They then blame the nutrients for the algae, declaring "Oh this only happened when I started adding nutrients!" This is an optical illusion of the highest order because there is an interaction between plants and algae. Algae are the "Hall Monitors" and they indicate immediately when a plants has failing health.

This is the fundamental Catch-22 of a high tech planted tank - the fact that the plants grow actually creates problems which requires you to do more of everything, which then causes more problems due to increased growth... There is however a "sweet spot" where the combination of nutrient dosing, flow, CO2 and your maintenance/husbandry routine for that lighting condition and tank configuration creates conditions of good health with zero or minimal algae.

Some algal forms are caused by poor CO2 uptake, others by low nutrient uptake. You have to therefore identify the algae so that troubleshooting can be performed effectively. Photos would help, but you can refer to JamesC's Algae Guide

Cheers,

 

[Gfish]

Thanks Gents,

I don't know why I mentioned the lack of pearling but to be honest its not really worrying me, it was more about the algae creeping back in.
The algae is like the first pic on 'Hair, Thread, fuzz' on James' guide as well as looking like 'Oedogonium' on the same page.

What you said makes total sense Clive. And now that I have more plants in the tank, I guess I can be quite harsh and I can afford to remove leaves that appear less than 100% healthy. Its hard to do though when ive been hell bent on increasing leaves in there and things have been starting to look good just recently. I may just remove the really bad leaves and do manual cleaning where there's hope of recovery, but also thin down the the bolbitus I have around the edges that are perhaps blocking a little flow. I'm not sure this is a problem but a little thinning down won't harm the huge plant I have at one end of the tank.
Flow is good I think and I can see about 90% of the leaves moving constantly. Only a few stiff large anubias leaves that don't move.

So you think my dosing of ferts sounds like enough? And the lighting sounds ok?

Cheers

Gavin

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

Hi Gavin,
Well, looks like you need more of everything mate. If it's filamentous then it's likely a CO2 shortfall. If it's Oedogonium then it's both low CO2 and low nutrients. It's entirely possible that you have two problems which would mean that you need more CO2 + nutrients or that you need to lower the light or a combination thereof. 95% of tanks suffer poor CO2 so if you are certain that your flow is good then slowly increase the injection rate or shift the timing to the left.

What is the colour profile of the dropchecker? By that I mean what colour is the checker at specific times of the day, at lights ON, at the middle of the photoperiod and at lights OFF?

Also need to know exactly what the dosing is at this time. Are you still operating within the paranoia envelop or have you upped it to proper levels?

Cheers,

 

[Gfish]

Clive

I will check my colour at different times tomorrow but it's a yellowy green when I've checked it during the photo period, usually at 3 hours before lights off.

The dosing level this week has been what James advises for a tank 350-500litres. Mine is a 720 empty so I figure it holds about 570 or so. So I'm probably still dosing shy of the optimum. Paranoia has faded somewhat you'll be glad to hear, but as with most things im trying to adjust all levels gradually; plants, Co2 and nutrients. I guess the first thing I should try next week is upping my ferts about 25% starting Sunday. Does that sound a good idea?
One thing ive not mentioned is the time of day I dose because of when I come in from work. I dose at 7.30/8pm and lights go off at 11pm. Hard to avoid, I'd be happier dosing soon as lights come on, but im at work and the missus is all over the place.

I will watch the drop checker tomorrow and report, but I have a feeling this will be fine. I shall let you be the judge

Ive thinned down the bushy plant I mentioned, and removed a few dodgy leaves and anubias stumps. There's only a couple of more plants I wish to add now, a needle leaf java fern and a large anubias Azfelii if I can get my hands on one. Aside from these I just need to see some recovery of my anubias caladefolia so I can't see their roots, then I'll be a happy man.

Tanks looking great though. Compared to what I as staring at a few weeks back it's a different world in there. Have gotten rid of 3 large green, and 1 large blue phantom plecos too. And with the recent addition of a second FX5 in favour of the old pro2 I had, the tanks running better than ever.

Cheers

Gavin

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

Good stuff mate.

Remember that the dosing guides do not want you to adjust for water. If your tank is 720 then dose for 720. Your percentage increase looks fine but do it quick mate, algae have their own schedule. They're not waiting till Monday to grow, that's for sure. It doesn't matter when you dose. Do it at a time most comfortable and convenient for you.

As regards the dropchecker it's good to see the profile over the course of the day. Ideally, that yellow/green should be there at lights ON. Some people have it blue/green at lights on which means the plants struggle at lights on. The injection continues so that the yellow/green only happens near the end of the photoperiod when the plants don't need it. Optimize the injection timing for lights ON. This is a Prime Directive. Large tanks have a huge "inertia" getting saturated so you may want to think about turning on the gas earlier and shutting it off earlier as well. I also assume you are using 4dkh water in the checker?

Cheers,

 

[Gfish]

Ok, my drop checker was a strong green when the lights had just came on. Fish seemed to be breathing fine so I've brought the CO2 timer to come on now at 2.5 hours before lights on then go off 1.5 hours before lights off. I will watch the fish as well as the drop checker, and if they're breathing better in the last hour of lights on I'll be happy. They've not looked like they're gasping but when my lights went to a moonlight which is on for 15 mins after the main tubes are both off, my fish have looked like they're breathing just a little too fast, so it's made me think there's an abundance of CO2 which the plants have not used up. And yes, the drop checker has read yellowy green at this late stage which I guess would be best green or bluey green.

I will be doing a waterchange Sunday morning and dosing nutrients 25% up on what I've done last week.
Today, Saturday I don't add anything.

Cheers

Gavin

 

[ceg4048]

Re: Been running Co2 & EI for a few weeks....

OK, yeah, remember that CO2 is really really important at the beginning of the photoperiod, and it's much less important in the afternoon. Turn the gas off even earlier without penalty mate. That will give the fish a break and an extra margin of safety.

Cheers,