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Yet another newbie

PedroMartins231

PedroMartins231

Seedling
Joined
4 Oct 2020
Messages
8
Location
London
Hey guys! Let me begin by saying this is technically not my first tank. I did have a small 20l one before but can't really say it was worth showing so I'm considering this my first aquascaping attempt.

Technical stuff
Fluval Roma 125
16.5w + 26w LED
Fluval 307 external filter
No CO2 injection
Tropica soil

Hardscape is basically just Seiryu stone. I was, unfortunately, unable to get any wood to go with it in time and I do think it is not enough but this is what we have for now.

Flora
Foreground: Eleocharis parvula, Marsilea hirsuta
Midground: Staurogyne repens, Cryptocoryne x willisii
Background: Heteranthera zosterifolia, Rotala rotundifolia, Limnophila heterophylla
Epiphyte: Java Fern, more soon (anubia/bucephalandra)

Fauna (all moved from my previous tank)
6x glowlight tetras
4x red shrimp

The tank has been running for 2 weeks. No signs of algae just yet.
I've just turned both lights to 100% yesterday and they are ON for 6 hours a day (will increase soon).
For the 2nd week I've been changing 50% of the water every other day and for the 3rd week I'll do it every 3 days.
No liquid fertilisers just yet but I plan on using some soon.
Gonna need to trim it very soon.

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Day 1

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Day 14

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3.jpeg


Future plans
Will definitely be adding more epiphyte plans, the rocks look naked at the moment. I'm not a huge fan of the java fern.
I wanna add more shrimp (amano and reds), some otocinclus, add more glowlight tetras and add a feature fish (maybe a couple of german blue rams).
Any tips will be appreciated!
 
Update after a month.
Plants are growing like crazy (background ones at least), had to trim them a couple of times already.
Fish are healthy and active. Added 6 amano shrimp, 2 nerite snails and 6 ottos.
Lights are now at 100% for 7h a day.

Have algae on the rocks which is almost impossible to remove with a toothbrush. Cleaning crew seems to hover around it a lot but they haven't been able to remove it either. No other type of algae so far.
Any tips?

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Personally, I like it. Gives the rock a more natural, weathered look.
Do you have any algae anywhere else? plants, substrate, glass etc?
Any other types of algae anywhere?

If not and you really don't like it I would try a toothbrush or plaque tip first, then a harder small brush like the bronze- looking toothbrushes. Either before a water change to remove it and prevent it from locking on elsewhere.

You could go to a VERY small, targetted test attack with 3% hydrogen peroxide (h2o2) either submerged via a pippette/syringe or on exposed rock/removed rock with the filter off until there are no more bubbles if in situ. Don't blast any of the critters with it directly or in close proximity if you can avoid it. Use very sparingly. Info on dosage is all over UKAPS and elsewhere.

The tank is still 'young' and evolving. Some epiphites and floaters should help to bring the tank into balance along with a bit of patience. The mechanical solutions trump chemical interventions and time/balance solutions trump mechanical imho.

The tank looks very healthy so I think you're not looking at launching the big guns. One of the advantages of no co2 is that a small problem doesn't get amplified into a crisis as quickly. You get more headspace to plan rather than fire fight.

A few months ago I was worried about BBA and hit it with H2O2 & Gluteraldehide. It laughed at the hydrogen and was a bit 'meh' at my attempts with glute but glute did restrain it. I wasn't happy with addressing the symptom rather than the root cause I remember thinking. In the end I just removed any leaves that were infected providing it wouldn't leave the plant bare. The BBA sort of.... gave up (for now).

I've still got a persistant green hair issue in that tank but I can be a bit more laid back about it until I work out what's going on. Small tweak. Reflection over weeks. Study more. Maybe put it up here for help. Small tweak etc.

I'm a beginner myself so would also take what I'm saying from only my own short time in the hobby.

Might be talking out of my hindquarters and someone will sort it for you better.

Nice tank

Good luck

Bg
 
There seems to be a bit more brown algae on the rocks now and the plants do not look great anymore.
I've been dosing Tropica Premium (1 pump per day) but plants are starting to go brown (it's not algae), the leafs seem to just be dying. From what I could gather this can be happening because it's lacking nitrogen (I don't have a way to test it at the moment). But since I do not have that many fish I guess it'd make sense. I'll probably gonna start dosing Tropica Specialised instead and see what happens. This started happening after I trimmed the plants last time and cleaned some algae that was between the substrate and the glass (brown algae) but I don't believe is related.

Some general info that might be relevant:
6 glowlight tetras, 6 ottos, 6 amano shrimp and 2 nerite snails
7h/day light (16.5w + 26w LED)
50% water changed every week
1 pump/day of Tropica Premium nutrition
Tank has been running for 5 weeks

If you think something else is the problem please let me know.

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A week has passed since the last update. I started changing 50% water twice a week and dosing 1 pump of Tropica specialised nutrition daily.
I also trimmed the top half of the Limnophila heterophylla that was looking quite brown. All the other plants were left alone but both the Eleocharis parvula and the Marsilea hirsuta are looking more and more brown.

30 min after dosing and right before today's water change I measured the water parameters and this is what I got:
PH: 7.8
GH: ~8
KH: ~8
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~100
Ammonia: 0
Chlorine: 0

So, as far as I know, this tells me 2 things:
1. I don't need to dose nitrogen as nitrates are quite high already (probably because I dosed 30 min before testing?)
2. Using the CO2 chart there's only 3.8ppm which is really low

This brings me to a couple of questions:
1. Is this all due to lack of CO2?
2. Should I stop dosing the Tropica specialised nutrition (with nitrogen) and go back to the premium nutrition (no nitrogen)?

All these pictures are right after the water change
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Last edited:
I'd also ease up on the lighting a bit mate while you work out your iron situation.
 
TSN is a fair week fert which is ammonium/urea based, if your test results are to be trusted I can see no issues with the nitrite levels all the same ;)

The standard recommend dose for TSN and TPN is 6ml/50l and the pump delivers 2ml per pump. So the advised dose for your 20l tank is 1.2 pumps or 1.2ml per week
You are dosing 1 pump a day so 14ml per week so you are dosing x11.67 above the advised dose (call it 12)

1609356901476.png


So your dosing 85ppm NO3 plus any thats in tap water which could quite easy take it to 100ppm NO3 IMO plus the Fe will be nearly 1.0ppm also.
You live in London so probably quite hard water as well.
So I think it could be a Mg/Fe deficiency, Mg can show like and Fe deficiency and iron could be due to the hard water and having a higher pH of the water and the standard Fe chelate (EDTA) becomes unavailable to plants once the water is above 7pH(ish).

The Mg is easy to fix just toss in a quarter of a teaspoon of Epsom salts (MgSO4) after water change ( you might have some Epsom salts in your house if someone uses them in the bath water).

The Fe is a little tricker as it would mean you need to get some Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA which for a 20 litre tank wont be much at all.

Another option is to mix your tap water with rainwater or RO water, this will lower the pH of the tank water and should resolve the Fe EDTA from precipitating out at higher pH

Turn light duration/intensity down
 
Zeus. said:
pump delivers 2ml per pump.
Click to expand...
Does it mate? I've seen that posted a few times but I'm pretty sure Tropica says it's 1.2ml per pump on the 125ml bottle anyway. I'll see if I can find it again, not saying that's definite though.
 
@Zeus. No idea what's going on. I think you're right though, according to tropica site 1xpump is 2ml however when you read the bottle it says 1.2ml although it might look like a comma.
Don't have the bottle with me but found this image....
Screenshot_20201230-230212.png

Reason I ask is I knocked some traces up yesterday, I'm usually a spoon man but decided to use an empty bottle of tropica I had kicking around so I can quickly just do a couple of pumps before I leave for work in the morning. I could have sworn it said 1.2ml on the bottle so based my calculations for dosing on that.
 
1609371393431.png


not very constant IMO is it 1.2ml per pump or 2.0ml per pump 🤨, either way its basically water, yet better than some commercial ferts

However the IFC fert calculator calculations for TSN and TPN are based on a lab analysis report and we have worked out the ppm yeilds from there;)
 
Zeus. said:
not very constant IMO
Click to expand...
I find you don't get as much out the first pump, it must suck a bit of air back in to the dispenser. Strange it should say that though.
I'll try a few pumps tomorrow and see what average I get, I will be shocked if it is 2ml. I've been dosing bio co2 lately at 1ml and to me there's nowhere near double that coming out the tropica bottle on a push.
Only using the bottle so when I go back to work usually in the dark I'm not clunking and banging around with lights on freaking out the sleeping fish.
Plus I'm not at my best in the morning, hands can get a bit shaky trying to sort out with spoons and lids. :D
 
Zeus. said:
However the IFC fert calculator calculations for TSN and TPN are based on a lab analysis report and we have worked out the ppm yeilds from there
Click to expand...
Yeah unlike Tropica's information yours is consistent mate ;) Tried today, curiosity got the better of me but with a 125ml bottle I get 1.2ml pretty much constantly and it does say each dose is 1.2ml on the bottle. Tried doing various pumps into a dosing lid then drawing off with a syringe 5xpumps=6ml etc and all other combinations, seems the dosing pump is actually pretty accurate! Like I said the first one can be a touch light but what I do is press until the fluid starts to appear, lift off and pump again.
Unsure why Tropica would put 2ml on their website, in my case I mixed my traces up at 2.5ml per 50ltrs 3x per week so I could give it two pumps and go, had I took notice of the Tropica website I would have been nearly half dosing. I wonder if the bigger bottle dispenses more per pump? Haven't got one so couldn't try.
 
Sorted mate, that explains everything. :thumbup: Mine's an old one I had kicking about for ages.
 
Zeus. said:
TSN is a fair week fert which is ammonium/urea based, if your test results are to be trusted I can see no issues with the nitrite levels all the same ;)

The standard recommend dose for TSN and TPN is 6ml/50l and the pump delivers 2ml per pump. So the advised dose for your 20l tank is 1.2 pumps or 1.2ml per week
You are dosing 1 pump a day so 14ml per week so you are dosing x11.67 above the advised dose (call it 12)

View attachment 159636

So your dosing 85ppm NO3 plus any thats in tap water which could quite easy take it to 100ppm NO3 IMO plus the Fe will be nearly 1.0ppm also.
You live in London so probably quite hard water as well.
So I think it could be a Mg/Fe deficiency, Mg can show like and Fe deficiency and iron could be due to the hard water and having a higher pH of the water and the standard Fe chelate (EDTA) becomes unavailable to plants once the water is above 7pH(ish).

The Mg is easy to fix just toss in a quarter of a teaspoon of Epsom salts (MgSO4) after water change ( you might have some Epsom salts in your house if someone uses them in the bath water).

The Fe is a little tricker as it would mean you need to get some Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA which for a 20 litre tank wont be much at all.

Another option is to mix your tap water with rainwater or RO water, this will lower the pH of the tank water and should resolve the Fe EDTA from precipitating out at higher pH

Turn light duration/intensity down
Click to expand...


You might be onto something there, I was dosing every other day, water change on the 4th day and was noticing stunting and yellowing, hard water etc, I dose a pump a day now on my 45f which is for the sake of argument 20l because I'd read somewhere 0.08ml per litre per day for high light tanks was the goal which by my back of the envelope calculation put me at 13ml or so a week or a pump a day. Makes me second guess myself now looking at the chart!
 
First of all thank you for all your suggestions. Not gonna pretend I fully understand all the science behind them but I'be been trying to follow it as much as possible.
I also believe my initial nitrates measurement was wrong. I was using test strips that always seem to show 100mg/l but after using a liquid test I get <5mg/l. I've been dosing TSN trying to fix it but can't say I've seen a substantial increase yet. I'm also seeing a little bit more algae specially on the Eleocharis Parvula.

So having said that and assuming things would improve if the PH was lower, would something like Seachem neutral regulator help or not really?

Who would've thought that keeping plants is much more difficult than keeping fish!? 😅
 
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