I am thinking of starting an Iwagumi style tank with high percentage of exposed rock relative to plants. I know that increasing and providing steady CO2 can make plants happy and reduce BBA attachment to plants. But will it also work to reduce BBA on rock?
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Will CO2 control BBA on hardscape
- Thread starter tiger15
- Start date
Andrew Butler
Member
Not directly relating to the BBA question but I was hell bent on an Iwagumi aquarium and have it running still now; I love the look but I wouldn't have another.
The fish just aren't happy as they haven't really got anywhere to hide, I'm sure many others will agree with me. 😉
I do question why it's a method still endorsed by some of the big names and the only answer I can conclude is they look good!
What good is an aquarium that doesn't take the welfare of the inhabitants into account?
Again not directly answering your question but my experience with Iwagumi is I've never had a problem with BBA.
I have Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo', Rotala Bonsai and Staurogyne Repens.
Inject CO2, Dose EI, regular water changes, good filtration and touch wood I have been BBA free since March.
I have a Twinstar 600S on the aquarium but it is diaed down to only 50% which is more than bright enough, both for the plants and viewing.
I have had a little algae on the stones but that's come away with a little scrub from a tooth brush.
Not an upto date pic but this is how mine looked a couple of months ago, I think you will agree nice, green growth and algae free.
Luciën
Member
For BBA if you use new rock and tissue culture only your on a good start.. I would be more concerned about green spot algae.
Your tank looks super clean btw 🙂
I started this hobby for fish keeping first so allways see aquascaping as building a super nice home for the fish, but I think if you build rock heavy you can create some hang out places or hidden caves..
Your tank looks super clean btw 🙂
Andrew Butler
Member
Thanks; it's not so good at the moment since I fitted stainless steel lily pipes (since removed) which blew the soil everywhere after a harsh cutback. 😡
You have a beautiful set up. Iwagumi style is not intent for fish, but to display rock formation in lush carpet plants setting to simulate the zen of Japanese rock garden. Most Iwagumi keep one to two species of schooling fish to lightly complement the zen garden.
I have been a fish focus hobbyist for many years before trying plants recently. After some initial struggle during the learning curve, I finally succeeded in converting my 75 gal cichlid tank into a planted cichlid tank. This tank has high plant mass and heavy stocking, but no rock exposed to BBA attack.
My next project is to plant my 125 gal, but still maintain the rock piles as stand out features for fish to hide. It's not truly a Iwagumi style as fish is the focus and rock piles are unnatural. I understand the challenge of high fish load and destructive cichlid behavior. So my plan is to plant tough Java fern on rock to carpet the rock piles initially before trying other epiphytes. I have unlimited supply of Java fern and other epiphytes from my high tech 75 to experiment. With so much exposed rock, my initial thought is will I be struggling with BBA on rock and how to deal with?
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Edvet
Member
Good emotion. Often scapers forget about their inhabitants.
I’m also not much of an Iwagumi fan re apparent inhabitant stress (though I also often observe fish stress in heavily planted tanks - I suspect this is mostly CO2 related as fish appear very lethargic and slow motion swimming)
BUT
I have seen some very successful Iwagumi tanks with apparently thriving fish ... these seem mostly to be larger tanks where there is lots of front to back space and height space for fish movement, also a large shoal of fish
With lots of rock rather than (traditional) limited rock numbers Iwagumi, I suspect it’s also more inviting to fish
Sorry not much of a BBA comment 😳
If you’re planning mostly java fern that’s also a factor as it’s relatively slow growing compared to most Iwagumi layout plants, H pinnatifida would be a much faster epiphyte
Also lots of moss, eg, attached to small stones for a carpet effect (easy to remove for trimming)
I think daily (should be quick) attention with an electric toothbrush would limit rock algaes, also suitable snails, shrimp, algae eating fish ... selection depending on your current fish species
Limit dissolved organics by keeping tank and filter ultra clean - obviously much more work with larger fish than the small slender inhabitants most often seen in Iwagumi tanks
I suspect type of rock also impacts algae desirability
BUT
I have seen some very successful Iwagumi tanks with apparently thriving fish ... these seem mostly to be larger tanks where there is lots of front to back space and height space for fish movement, also a large shoal of fish
With lots of rock rather than (traditional) limited rock numbers Iwagumi, I suspect it’s also more inviting to fish
Sorry not much of a BBA comment 😳
If you’re planning mostly java fern that’s also a factor as it’s relatively slow growing compared to most Iwagumi layout plants, H pinnatifida would be a much faster epiphyte
Also lots of moss, eg, attached to small stones for a carpet effect (easy to remove for trimming)
I think daily (should be quick) attention with an electric toothbrush would limit rock algaes, also suitable snails, shrimp, algae eating fish ... selection depending on your current fish species
Limit dissolved organics by keeping tank and filter ultra clean - obviously much more work with larger fish than the small slender inhabitants most often seen in Iwagumi tanks
I suspect type of rock also impacts algae desirability
Alto, thanks for the suggestions.
I agree with everything you said, but can’t implement many of your good suggestions because I am not starting a new set up from scratch. I am converting a heavily stocked cichlid tank to a planted cichlid tank, and until the inhabitants pass away from old age, I have to accommodate them for some time.
First, there will be high organic waste production, which I will mitigate by doing 75% WC weekly as I have always been doing.
Second, I will stick with Java ferns because of their toughness and distasteful to fish. I know they are slow grower susceptible to algae attack, and I will combat them with Glut and peroxide treatment. The remaining question I ask is whether CO2 will control bba on rock. I don’t plan to use CO2 if I can avoid.
Third, your suggestion for moss to cover rock is great, but my cichlid will tear them and make a mess, not to mention moss doesn't like Glut.
Forth, I really like the look of H pinnatifida, but last time I tried it in my planted 75, it died slowly. My water is slightly alkaline and light intensity under 50PAR, so apparently it doesn’t like the condition. I may try again in the future, but Java ferns are tried and true in my 75, which I have unlimited supply to fill my 125. 125 gal is 475 liters, a big tank to fill up with plant mass.
My goal is not really Iwagumi style, but heavy rock scape, modest plant mass, and heavy stocking of cichlid fish. I have already had the rock lay out as shown waiting. I will glue plants onto the larva rock and expose the rainbow rock piles that form caves for fish to hide.
Yes, most scalpers care more about plants than fish. Amano nature aquariums have few and tiny fish that appear to be fishless. On the other hand, most cichlid keepers don’t care about scape and will be fine with a few ugly, broken flower pots to house the inhabitants. I was like that before, but only recently discovered the joy of aquatic gardening and evolved into equal opportunity focus on fish, scape and plants.
I agree with everything you said, but can’t implement many of your good suggestions because I am not starting a new set up from scratch. I am converting a heavily stocked cichlid tank to a planted cichlid tank, and until the inhabitants pass away from old age, I have to accommodate them for some time.
First, there will be high organic waste production, which I will mitigate by doing 75% WC weekly as I have always been doing.
Second, I will stick with Java ferns because of their toughness and distasteful to fish. I know they are slow grower susceptible to algae attack, and I will combat them with Glut and peroxide treatment. The remaining question I ask is whether CO2 will control bba on rock. I don’t plan to use CO2 if I can avoid.
Third, your suggestion for moss to cover rock is great, but my cichlid will tear them and make a mess, not to mention moss doesn't like Glut.
Forth, I really like the look of H pinnatifida, but last time I tried it in my planted 75, it died slowly. My water is slightly alkaline and light intensity under 50PAR, so apparently it doesn’t like the condition. I may try again in the future, but Java ferns are tried and true in my 75, which I have unlimited supply to fill my 125. 125 gal is 475 liters, a big tank to fill up with plant mass.
My goal is not really Iwagumi style, but heavy rock scape, modest plant mass, and heavy stocking of cichlid fish. I have already had the rock lay out as shown waiting. I will glue plants onto the larva rock and expose the rainbow rock piles that form caves for fish to hide.
Yes, most scalpers care more about plants than fish. Amano nature aquariums have few and tiny fish that appear to be fishless. On the other hand, most cichlid keepers don’t care about scape and will be fine with a few ugly, broken flower pots to house the inhabitants. I was like that before, but only recently discovered the joy of aquatic gardening and evolved into equal opportunity focus on fish, scape and plants.
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Konsa
Member
Hi
I have Brichardi colony(atm 5 generations) going in my 125l tank.Low light 2 T8 18w no CO2.Mild ferts.Focus especially on micros and Mg and K as loads macros(N and P) from fish waste.
The way forward is to get floaters and try any other fast growing weed U can think of to see wich will work for your setup and increase the plant mass. The algae will go away slowly with scrubbing and regular husbandry
Regards Konsa
I have Brichardi colony(atm 5 generations) going in my 125l tank.Low light 2 T8 18w no CO2.Mild ferts.Focus especially on micros and Mg and K as loads macros(N and P) from fish waste.
The way forward is to get floaters and try any other fast growing weed U can think of to see wich will work for your setup and increase the plant mass. The algae will go away slowly with scrubbing and regular husbandry
Regards Konsa