Which deficiency?

[Sanniejop]

Hi,
Recently (two months ago) I switched from EI with CO2 to PPS pro daily dosing without CO2. All seems to go well (plants are growing quite well) but last days I start to observe brown or burnt(?) edges on the leaves of crypto's and new leaves of anubiases. See pictures.
I was wondering if this could be a pottasium deficiency?
Sorry for not sharing more info. If more info is needed I can provide.

Regards,
Sandor

 

[hypnogogia]

Thread 'Please read the guidelines for plant help!'

27 Apr 2020

Dear Member

Please give as many details as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help!

The above should be posted at the start of each help request.

Why do we ask these questions?
It will reduce posts by members asking for the information below, also advisers don't need to scroll through a whole thread to find them.

Copy and Paste the list below...and add your answers to each number on the list!
@13 Please upload photographs/images if possible.

1. Size of tank.
2. Age of the system approximately.
3. Tap water parameters.
4. Filtration and Media.
5...

• G H Nelson

• 

 

[MrClockOff]

Hi there, more info will help get better diagnosis. But from the pics it looks like the beginning of black beard algae.

 

[Sanniejop]

So here the details of my tank.
Picture and tapwater data.

1. Size of tank.
175L 45 Gallon

2. Age of the system approximately.
8+ years

3. Tap water parameters.
See attachment

4. Filtration and Media.
Currently two filters, one running in for new aquarium.
Eheim experience 150, sponge and Sera siporax
Eheim 5e 700 completely filled with siporax

5. Lighting and duration.
2x 24W T5, starts on 13pm, off 11pm.

6. Substrate.
Inert black painted quartz gravel with Colombo nutribase underneath.

7. Currently no CO2 dosing

8. No Drop Checker.

9. Fertilizers used + Ratios.
PPS pro reciept


10. Water change regime and composition.
Decided recently to do less water changes because it seems to go less well directly after a water change. Water becomes misty. I think because of higher KH of tap water causing a slightly higher ph which causes less stable iron causing reaction with phosphates?

11. Plant list + Invitro/Emersed.
Crypto's, hygrophyla polysperma, anubias, hydrocotyle, elodea densa
All longer than a year in tank.

12. Inhabitants.
some platys, 3 oto's, 3 small siamese algea eaters, 1 ancistrus, 4 Trigonostigma heteromorpha, lots of small snails.

13. Full tank shot and surface image.

 

[Sanniejop]

Hi there, more info will help get better diagnosis. But from the pics it looks like the beginning of black beard algae.

Hi MrClockOff,
I sure dont hope so. It has been a long time since I had that. To me it does not look like it. But I will keep an even better eye on it know you have said this. 🧐

 

[hypnogogia]

Have to say, it looks like BBA to me as well. What’s your water change routine - % and frequency?

 

[Sanniejop]

Normaly i did weekly 50% tapwater.
Now it is almost a week ago.
Last days by experiment i started with only 3 liers of rainwater in total. Dont know if that has to do sometbing with this. I would not think so.

I know my no3 is alao quite low. Maybe this is also comprimising the health of the plants.

What is not clear to me with the pps pro regime is if you first have to prepare your water to certain base values or not?

 

[Wookii]

So you've switched from full fat EI and CO2 injection to lean dosing and no CO2 - how gradually did you make that change?

To be honest, if the change was fairly fast - i.e. over a period of less than three months with a no gradual reduction in CO2 and fert dosing - then that is absolutely the cause of the decline in plant health as they are struggling to transition to the new regime particularly the reduced CO2 levels, which is causing BBA to form on the weakened leaves.

Unfortunately you're just going to have to try and ride it out and wait for the plants to adapt. You might also want to try and reduce the lighting a bit if you can, as that is running in excess is will drive demand for CO2 and nutients.

 

[Sanniejop]

Unfortunately you're just going to have to try and ride it out and wait for the plants to adapt. You might also want to try and reduce the lighting a bit if you can, as that is running in excess is will drive demand for CO2 and nutients.

It was not a gradual reduction in CO2. The CO2 bottle was sooner empty than I expected. It suspect I had a leakage.
Any how I did not really like the growing speed of the stem plants (lot of pruning) and the appearance of them (long distance between leaves) with the high tech approach. So I was already experimenting with lowering the fertilization levels. To my surprise it looked like some plants, especially Anubiases, seemed to like this and started to grow faster and look much more "fresh". Also older leaves on stem plants stayed longer green and attached to the stem. The slower growth and more compact growth of the stem plants are also more to my liking.

So while using no CO2 and limited fertilizers for two months now, it all looked to go quite well. But now suddenly those brown edges, which probably will turn into BBA, are appearing. I had the feeling this was caused by a deficiency because of the surprisingly rapid growth of the plants. Especially the Edolea grows bigger and faster then with EI CO2? Those PPS daily doses of 1 ppm N and 1.3 ppm K seems so low to me compared to what I was used to with EI.

Could the rise of BBA be related to a too low level of NPK fertilizers?
Maybe also an important detail. I was increasing the fish feeding from once in three-four days to daily. I thought this was helping to supply N and P.

I will limit the hours of lighting, this will also limit the need of ferts

 

[hypnogogia]

I think as @Wookii has suggested the cause of this is that there was NOT a gradual transition to different fertiliser regime and no CO2. It seems you made a sudden change.

 

[Sanniejop]

So, just wait and hope it will not become to bad? Or immediately remove leaves that are infected?

 

[hypnogogia]

Immediately remove affected leaves, because as they die they release organics into the water which will encourage more algae. I'd also increase the water changes again.

 

[ElleDee]

To be honest, if the change was fairly fast - i.e. over a period of less than three months with a no gradual reduction in CO2 and fert dosing - then that is absolutely the cause of the decline in plant health as they are struggling to transition to the new regime particularly the reduced CO2 levels, which is causing BBA to form on the weakened leaves.

Unfortunately you're just going to have to try and ride it out and wait for the plants to adapt. You might also want to try and reduce the lighting a bit if you can, as that is running in excess is will drive demand for CO2 and nutients.

This was my first thought as well, though it is also affecting new anubias leaves. Usually this kind of adjustment hit the older leaves while the newer leaves are clean. I know it's a slow grower though, so maybe it's slow adapting?

So, just wait and hope it will not become to bad? Or immediately remove leaves that are infected?

Is it just a few leaves? Then go ahead and remove it. If the whole plant is being affected you'll need to do triage and remove the worst bits until you have clean new growth you can replace it with. I've only had bba in one of my low tech tanks and it grew very slowly, so it wasn't in danger of suddenly covering everything all at one. If any leaves start melting, remove those ASAP, even if it takes a whole plant.

 

[Sanniejop]

Is it just a few leaves?

In fact I only see it on the new Anubias leafs.
Thats why I thought it was an deficiency.
But I also see it on older crypto leaves. Not sure if it is exactly the same thing on both plants. On the crypto it is realy a sharp black edge ON the leaf. On the anubias it seems discoloring of the tissue itself.