Where to start?

[RickB]

Hi everyone.

I stripped down my roma 200 as things were really going south, rehomed my plec.

Now im looking at converting the tank into a vivarium for a lizard, not sure yet which one.

I was going to try my hand at just plants to start with and try to get that whole side of things right first, the gf likes the idea of a desert biome.

Currently got organic top soil, play sand and some gravel to throw on top of the substrate.

how do I build a desert substrate that is suitable for smallish lizards such as leopard gecko?

Ive done some reading regarding heating etc, still not sure yet, I read heat mats are useless when using a substrate as the substrate absorbs the heat?

Basically looking for advice from anyone with experience.

 

[mrhoyo]

I don't think many people on here keep reptiles but this video may be of interest

 

[seedoubleyou]

Before you commit make sure you have a good plan and that your tank is compatible for creating a vivarium, whether it be desert or jungle. Ventilation is key in bith and that can be hard to achieve in a glass box that wasn’t designed to be anything more than an aquarium.

 

[seedoubleyou]

Heat mats can work in certain applications but they can also be detrimental as they can heat the entire vivarium meaning certain animals can’t regulate their temp by seeking cooler spots.

I’m no expert and haven’t kept lizards of any sort before, so please do your own research.

 

[Tyko_N]

Ventilation is key in bith and that can be hard to achieve in a glass box that wasn’t designed to be anything more than an aquarium.

Very true, and in an aquarium one would probably have to use at least one fan to get a temperature gradient, carefully adjusted so as to not create a cold draft during winter. Honestly, it might be easier to try and find a second hand terrarium.

Ive done some reading regarding heating etc, still not sure yet, I read heat mats are useless when using a substrate as the substrate absorbs the heat?

Depends on the substrates thickness, if you can create some caves in it then there'll be a nice and cozy microclimate in them. You could also place a heat mat on one of the sides if you want to.

Basically looking for advice from anyone with experience.

I've kept a leopard gecko for years, but not sure how much experience I have. I just figured that if I can make things natural then the rest will sort itself out, which has worked pretty well so far. Here's an old picture of my terrarium:

The whole setup is about 100x60x60cm, ventilation openings are along the front top and hidden at the back left corner, heating is via a heatlamp and a mat at the front right corner. The trick is to create as many different hiding places with various temperature and humidity that the lizard can choose for itself. For substrate I've used a mix of sand and unfertilized potting soil, making it a bit more stable and better at holding water than pure sand. The plants have been changed around a bit since this photo, my lights weren't strong enough for some of them, and if you want some true desert plants you'll need brutal lamps. Keep in mind that leopard geckos aren't from the desert though, so they'll need a bit more humidity.

 

[RickB]

Thanks for all the input.

Done alot more reading too.

Plan is to put the drainage layer down with a mesh cover, then make the substrate mix using organic topsoil, sand and excavator clay, going to order some gobi stones and a nice piece of wood, a few hides and get that part done.

Then I'm going to find some lighting, I'm debating using the led strip light on the tank for daytime lighting and using a ceramic heater and finding a suitable basking light.

I'm not going to get any lizard until I know temps are stable in the right places, we are going to try get a colony of dwarf white isopods going though while we dial it in.

 

[seedoubleyou]

I think for longevity and piece of mind that a proper enclosure designed for the job would be best. That’s what I’d do.
I too was setting up a vivarium using an aquarium (for dart frogs). But the work involved in creating proper ventilation will be too much. So I’ve had to stop.

 

[RickB]

So more research done, Do I need a separate heat bulb and uvb bulb?

The lighting is still throwing me off, no idea what wattage bulb I need I have seen some that seem ok but is uvb 3.0 ok? The bulb I've seen is a uva + uvb 3.0 basking/heat bulb that is 25 - 35c temp.

these are what we are thinking about:

bulbs

fitting

 

[Tyko_N]

Do I need a separate heat bulb and uvb bulb?

Probably not, but it might be a good idea to have a cave underneath the basking spot, allowing the lizard to heat up in shade if needed. I use a 50W lamp, but even that might be excessive in your case depending on room temperature. As long as there is a temperature gradient exact numbers doesn't really matter though, my terrarium ranges from above 40C beneath the heat lamp down to about 20-25C at the other end.

The bulb you were looking at had an interesting warning:

1. It is advisable to shine 3-5 hours a day, as long working hours can easily shorten the lifespan of the lamp at high temperatures.

Considering you'll probably want to keep it on for 10-14 hours a day, you might want to look at other ones.

 

[RickB]

Probably not, but it might be a good idea to have a cave underneath the basking spot, allowing the lizard to heat up in shade if needed. I use a 50W lamp, but even that might be excessive in your case depending on room temperature. As long as there is a temperature gradient exact numbers doesn't really matter though, my terrarium ranges from above 40C beneath the heat lamp down to about 20-25C at the other end.

The bulb you were looking at had an interesting warning:

Considering you'll probably want to keep it on for 10-14 hours a day, you might want to look at other ones.

Yeah, I read that too about them and the warning that the seller knows they won't last long and to contact them for replacements.

So many bulbs available it pickles my head a bit.

The basking spot is planned to be right above a cave in the layout I'm considering, although I wasn't sure if to use that cave as a humid cave with sphagnum moss inside or to add another cave for the humid cave, I might need to get most of it set up and then use a hygrometer to see where the best spot for the humid cave is.

 

[seedoubleyou]

Yeah, I read that too about them and the warning that the seller knows they won't last long and to contact them for replacements.

So many bulbs available it pickles my head a bit.

The basking spot is planned to be right above a cave in the layout I'm considering, although I wasn't sure if to use that cave as a humid cave with sphagnum moss inside or to add another cave for the humid cave, I might need to get most of it set up and then use a hygrometer to see where the best spot for the humid cave is.

Might be best to visit an actual store selling the animals you’re interested in and get some advice in person.

 

[mrhoyo]

So more research done, Do I need a separate heat bulb and uvb bulb?

The lighting is still throwing me off, no idea what wattage bulb I need I have seen some that seem ok but is uvb 3.0 ok? The bulb I've seen is a uva + uvb 3.0 basking/heat bulb that is 25 - 35c temp.

these are what we are thinking about:

bulbs

fitting

I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
I currently keep over 20 reptiles and all the UVB I use are Arcadia. I have looked at LED but ZooMed are the only big brand to offer them which makes me quite wary.
The problem with UV bulbs is too much UVA or UVB is problematic and I believe all UVC is dangerous. The last thing anyone wants is an animal with cancer or blindness due to saving a few quid on the bulbs.
Have a look at the Arcadia website and they have guides for which bulbs suit which species.

For heat I use either Deep Heat Projectors, ceramic trough heaters, Reptile Radiators or halogen bulbs.

 

[RickB]

I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
I currently keep over 20 reptiles and all the UVB I use are Arcadia. I have looked at LED but ZooMed are the only big brand to offer them which makes me quite wary.
The problem with UV bulbs is too much UVA or UVB is problematic and I believe all UVC is dangerous. The last thing anyone wants is an animal with cancer or blindness due to saving a few quid on the bulbs.
Have a look at the Arcadia website and they have guides for which bulbs suit which species.

For heat I use either Deep Heat Projectors, ceramic trough heaters, Reptile Radiators or halogen bulbs.

I'm inclined to agree with you, is the fitting suitable? I can get a second one for heat and use the other for uvb.

On uvb is it right that I need between 2% and 5% uvb?

 

[Tyko_N]

On uvb is it right that I need between 2% and 5% uvb?

You don't need uvb, provided you feed it a diet with some vitamin D, but if you're unsure about the quality of the feed then it's worth considering. With percentages, uvb values then depend on the strength of the bulb and how much of the output is light/heat, with desert type plants you'll need strong lights meaning that the % uvb won't have to be that high, as long as the gecko has some warm shaded spots it can retreat to strong uvb shouldn't matter much though.

 

[seedoubleyou]

You don't need uvb

This is true of dart frogs but only because they realised much later on that UVB was beneficial to the frogs.

It was always assumed that due to them living in dense forestry they wouldn’t receive much light.

It is still widely practiced to supplement their diets.

I didn’t know this was true with certain lizards too.

 

[RickB]

Got a few more plants to plant and I need to fit the t5 and a ceramic heater then it's dialling the temps in and watching for a bit, humidity on left is between 20 and 35 it varies slightly but no massive swings, the right is sitting between 35 and 45.

 

[RickB]

Just wanted to share an update on this.

After getting temps stable and getting suitable lighting and making sure the mesh at the top provided enough ventilation the vivarium was fully planted and we now have a leopard gecko named Gex.

Had him a few weeks and he seems really settled.

Feeding dubia roaches daily at the moment, mostly one a day sometimes 2.

He has shedded once which was over in 24 hrs with no issues.

The Isopods are doing a good job too, woke up the other night to find a pile of them cleaning Gex's toilet area.

 

[RickB]

Hey everyone!

So Gex is still going strong, no problems, normal sleep patterns and feeding ok etc.

I was considering trying to establish a Dubia roach colony in the same enclosure to help with the bio active, would this work/ is it possible?