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What's wrong with my Anubis?

Matti

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Helsinki, Finland
What's wrong with my Anubias? New leaves twisted with light veins, something sort of nutrient deficiency but what?

Matti
 

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John q

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Hi Matti, if this is the same tank that had the problems with the alternanthera melting I'd assume the problems are the same.

Are you still limiting fertiliser dosage in fear of algae? If so then you probably need to start adding some. In the other thread it was suggested you dimmed the lights a bit, did you do this?

Also Geoff mentioned the flow/C02 distribution around your tank maybe need improvement. The anubias would be the point where flow would be the least, this picture maybe reinforces his concerns, especially considering the bucephalandra is covered in bba.

I'd suggest as a start you stop listening to the lfs and start adding some fertiliser, I'd also suggest you lower the light intensity a tad, finally is there any improvement that could be made regards flow.
 

Angus

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My anubias new leaves are a dead giveaway for lack of ferts, almost as good a canary as the duckweed index.

Just an aside, i have experienced BBA not just as a result of not enough ppm co2, variable co2, inadequate circulation, but also too much circulation and crazy build up near filter outlets and high flowing areas.
 
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Matti

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Hi Matti, if this is the same tank that had the problems with the alternanthera melting I'd assume the problems are the same.

Are you still limiting fertiliser dosage in fear of algae? If so then you probably need to start adding some. In the other thread it was suggested you dimmed the lights a bit, did you do this?

Also Geoff mentioned the flow/C02 distribution around your tank maybe need improvement. The anubias would be the point where flow would be the least, this picture maybe reinforces his concerns, especially considering the bucephalandra is covered in bba.

I'd suggest as a start you stop listening to the lfs and start adding some fertiliser, I'd also suggest you lower the light intensity a tad, finally is there any improvement that could be made regards flow.
Yes, the same tank. Yes, there is a fertilising problem. But, my BBA is vanishing and my Alternanthrera is not melting anymore. And I would like to understand what is happening. For me one thing in this hobby is about learning, if I solve the problem just by adding more fertilisers without understanding what is happening, that's not learning.
 

MichaelJ

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What's wrong with my Anubias? New leaves twisted with light veins, something sort of nutrient deficiency but what?

Matti
Hi @Matti What @John q and @Angus Says above. If you don't dose, get it going... and dose consistently - you will have to dose wildly over the recommended dosing to get into trouble with livestock.

I have a lot of different sorts of Anubias in my tanks. I dose a ton of fertilizer and occasionally see Anubias leaves coming out like what you show in the picture and I don't worry about it. I would be much more worried about the BBA.
Yes, the same tank. Yes, there is a fertilising problem. But, my BBA is vanishing and my Alternanthrera is not melting anymore. And I would like to understand what is happening. For me one thing in this hobby is about learning, if I solve the problem just by adding more fertilisers without understanding what is happening, that's not learning.
If you want to approach this in a more educational manner, that is an honorable choice of course... Change one thing at a time and see what happens... Alternatively, you can go with improved flow / CO2 distribution / fertilizer / lower light intensity all at once and get results sooner. The solution to these issues are often a combination.

Cheers,
Michael
 

Angus

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If you want to approach this in a more educational manner, that is an honorable choice of course... Change one thing at a time and see what happens... Alternatively, you can go with improved flow / CO2 distribution / fertilizer / lower light intensity all at once and get results sooner.
For me lowering lighting intensity via a dimmer or increasing the distance between the light unit and the substrate is the number one thing that helped greatly with any algae issue i have had in the past,
Not in regards to stopping any bloom, but just in regard to slowing the whole problem down and giving me time to react or change conditions appropriately, when in a high metabolism system it can all too quickly get ontop of yourself and you are fighting a losing battle before you know it.

Obviously i am mostly a non-co2 user but have used in the past and did the same alongside trying to hit my optimum injection levels and having good flow.
 

John q

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. For me one thing in this hobby is about learning, if I solve the problem just by adding more fertilisers without understanding what is happening, that's not learning.
Well, if that's the only change you make and see improvements then I'd suggest you've learnt a lot.

If you do nothing and the tank crashes then you've also learned something, life is all about learning.
 
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Geoffrey Rea

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What's wrong with my Anubias? New leaves twisted with light veins, something sort of nutrient deficiency but what?

Simple answer, it’s not happy.

More complex and involved answers require more information. Diagnostics are a matter of gaining as much evidence as possible, then finding an appropriate fit. Narrow down the options.

For me one thing in this hobby is about learning, if I solve the problem just by adding more fertilisers without understanding what is happening, that's not learning.

Yup 👍🏽

Details matter about the setup. For example, you could have gone on holiday for two weeks and ran an auto feeder that went haywire and over fed. How would we know? Has anything outside of the usual routine happened of late?

Seen the other picture from the AR thread. You’ve likely got Co2 misting over your slow growing epiphytes. If the Anubias has spread its roots down into the soil it might do well under the misting scenario. The BBA on the Bucephalandra next to it sort of says this isn’t happening or the Buce hasn’t got good adhesion to whatever surface it’s attached to.

How well attached your epiphytes are matters, it’s a factor. If you glued the rhizome rather than the side rooting, it’s a factor. If you used cotton thread and it disintegrated before it got a good hold, it’s a factor. All these nuances play in even before getting to lighting/Co2/ferts. It likes being attached so it isn’t wasting energy on that procedure and can focus on leaf growth and nutrient uptake. You can notice this change coming to its conclusion as the roots stop growing in any meaningful way (take weekly pictures and compare).

Are those epiphytes a recent addition or have they been there for a while?

Are they attached to the point you couldn’t remove them without force or cutting them away?
 

Matti

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12 Aug 2021
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Location
Helsinki, Finland
Simple answer, it’s not happy.

More complex and involved answers require more information. Diagnostics are a matter of gaining as much evidence as possible, then finding an appropriate fit. Narrow down the options.



Yup 👍🏽

Details matter about the setup. For example, you could have gone on holiday for two weeks and ran an auto feeder that went haywire and over fed. How would we know? Has anything outside of the usual routine happened of late?

Seen the other picture from the AR thread. You’ve likely got Co2 misting over your slow growing epiphytes. If the Anubias has spread its roots down into the soil it might do well under the misting scenario. The BBA on the Bucephalandra next to it sort of says this isn’t happening or the Buce hasn’t got good adhesion to whatever surface it’s attached to.

How well attached your epiphytes are matters, it’s a factor. If you glued the rhizome rather than the side rooting, it’s a factor. If you used cotton thread and it disintegrated before it got a good hold, it’s a factor. All these nuances play in even before getting to lighting/Co2/ferts. It likes being attached so it isn’t wasting energy on that procedure and can focus on leaf growth and nutrient uptake. You can notice this change coming to its conclusion as the roots stop growing in any meaningful way (take weekly pictures and compare).

Are those epiphytes a recent addition or have they been there for a while?

Are they attached to the point you couldn’t remove them without force or cutting them away?
Hi, epiphytes have been there already for months so I don't want to mess up everything by removing them. If I could remove them I would soak them in bleach, which would kill all the BBA instantly. What I am now trying to find is to find a simple way of running the tank in balanced way. I don't want to use glut anymore, I rather have some BBA instead of the problems I faced with glut.

Matti
 

Geoffrey Rea

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Hi, epiphytes have been there already for months so I don't want to mess up everything by removing them.

Definitely not suggesting that @Matti as it will undo any adhesion to surfaces the Anubias has established in those months.

What I am now trying to find is to find a simple way of running the tank in balanced way.

Well, are the epiphytes the exception? Meaning, is everything else doing well?

If it is just the epiphytes (Anubias, Bucephalandra) suffering with BBA, with the Anubias displaying twisting and light veins, you have a very localised issue.

I rather have some BBA instead of the problems I faced with glut.

Well let’s see if we can cater to both before conceding. No BBA no glutaraldehyde.

Here’s an appraisal of the situation with the proviso that there’s still limited information about the area these plants sit. (Nudge… more photos and details of the affected area please 🙏🏽 What is the condition of the plants surrounding this area?)

Anubis is the name for the Greek god of death. Anubias sp. are usually placed in very dark, shaded spots in a tank with minimal light. Your photo:

1638090491193.jpeg


Your tank:

1638090747661.jpeg


Very nice scape by the way 👍🏽

Assuming that the first photo is the left mid ground area?

Path of your Co2 distribution in the foreground:

1638090893827.jpeg


If it is the area on the left, your plants are positioned towards the middle line and half way up towards your light fixture. They are also next to your bazooka diffuser, the highest localised area of Co2 compared to the rest of the tank.

So… higher than desirable lighting for slow growers and abundant co2. Where are the nutrients to match the light and Co2 driving growth?

You can workaround this scenario if the roots of your epiphytes extend into the soil. High light/Co2/nutrient availability. Just non-mobile nutrients like iron to get to the plants and they’re in a high flow area. Water column dosing should take care of that.

Proof of concept:

1638094482726.jpeg


The Buce and Anubias in the above photo are under two ONF Flat One units at 100% intensity. The Co2 mist from an in-line diffuser was directed from the outflow so that the area received a lot of Co2 mist. High light/Co2/nutrient availability. We can bend the rules for scaping purposes sometimes.

Your photo again:

1638090491193.jpeg


The leaf fringes are disintegrating. The high Co2 availability, plus this decay, makes it ideal for BBA to take advantage. It’s existing in this plants imbalance.

Advice so far would solve the issue with the Anubias; more ferts, lower the lighting, improve distribution. However, you would be affecting the whole system to deal with a potentially localised problem.

This is why it is important to understand what is going on more widely with your system. It becomes troublesome to offer suggestions without adequate information. Your wants for the system are also a component. It’s important that these are explicitly expressed.

Assuming this is a localised issue…

You may laugh at this @Matti but a possible fix could be as simple as checking if there’s some longer roots available and just tucking them into the soil. Then wait. A month goes by, more leaves start being produced, nip off the BBA affected leaves, let the new ones grow out.
 

Geoffrey Rea

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For me one thing in this hobby is about learning, if I solve the problem just by adding more fertilisers without understanding what is happening, that's not learning.

Amano understood how to locally solve problems for specific species. Anticipate that for him, this knowledge was expressed through artistic merit, underpinned by understanding the patterns he saw in nature when out there enjoying his photography:

1638103429885.png


Regardless… As a result, he shaded his Anubias, lowering the demands. Smart guy, he was awake to what works. When you begin to understand the hundreds of decisions required putting an aquascape together, it makes you appreciate his big works, with happy plants everywhere you look. Mastery of the planted aquarium.
 
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