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What deficiency is causing this? Potassium?

tyler138

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I have been struggling with holes in my ferns and crypts for a while. Not sure if it's the RCS eating them or just a deficiency. Also any s repens leaves just go very quickly.

Could the holes be caused by a potassium deficiency or something else?

Thanks
 

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GHNelson

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tyler138

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More I do on the tank.
Size of tank. - 45l
Age of the system approximately. - 2 years
Filtration. - Tidal 35
Lighting and duration. -
Substrate - Tropica
Co2 dosing
Fertilizers used - Tropica Specialized. One pump on water change, Premium mid week one pump
Water change - 50% per week
 

JoshP12

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Did you ever not have this issue in the past two years?

And how hard is your water and do you remineralize?
 

tyler138

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Did you ever not have this issue in the past two years?

And how hard is your water and do you remineralize?
It's been an ongoing issue. Most plants end up getting a trim before it's to bad, but the ferns are a slow grower and have just gotten worse. And have always struggled with stem plants.


Not tried remineralized before.
Kh is 4 and GH is 10
 

JoshP12

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It's been an ongoing issue. Most plants end up getting a trim before it's to bad, but the ferns are a slow grower and have just gotten worse. And have always struggled with stem plants.


Not tried remineralized before.
Kh is 4 and GH is 10
If it was me, I’d start now with co2.

If co2 were correct, all plants would be absolutely gorgeous for about a month after being freshly planted. (Given a meticulous water change routine at startup).

We will need a full tank shot and run down of your entire filtration and co2 implementation.

Going to take at least a week and probably a month to get sorted then a month or three to get the proper results you want.

Keep everything consistent outside of co2.

Without any additional data, my first step would be this:

Leave co2 injection rate as is. Turn it on 1 hour before lights on and off 1 hour before lights off.

If that is not your current set up, you need to watch for 1-2 days. Then slowly turn up the needle wheel on your injector a micro turn. And watch the plant and fish response closely during that day.

If you overshot (the fish will look lethargic maybe at the top and it’s possible if you do this while you are not home, they will be dead- so you must be very careful).

If the fish are healthy and the plants perk up we are great.

If the fish don’t look good and your plants don’t look any better, we turn to overhauling the distribution method of your water.
 

tyler138

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If it was me, I’d start now with co2.

If co2 were correct, all plants would be absolutely gorgeous for about a month after being freshly planted. (Given a meticulous water change routine at startup).

We will need a full tank shot and run down of your entire filtration and co2 implementation.

Going to take at least a week and probably a month to get sorted then a month or three to get the proper results you want.

Keep everything consistent outside of co2.

Without any additional data, my first step would be this:

Leave co2 injection rate as is. Turn it on 1 hour before lights on and off 1 hour before lights off.

If that is not your current set up, you need to watch for 1-2 days. Then slowly turn up the needle wheel on your injector a micro turn. And watch the plant and fish response closely during that day.

If you overshot (the fish will look lethargic maybe at the top and it’s possible if you do this while you are not home, they will be dead- so you must be very careful).

If the fish are healthy and the plants perk up we are great.

If the fish don’t look good and your plants don’t look any better, we turn to overhauling the distribution method of your water.
Yes, I have co2 and it comes on an hour, maybe 2, before the lights, and off before.

I will get a picture of my setup soon.

By water distribution do you mean the flow in the tank? I have been thinking this might be a problem as I only have a HOB filter, Tidal 35, and don't see the co2 bubbles all over the tank.


I have been thinking of upgrading to something like the Oase 100 to help with flow.
 

Ginkgo

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@JoshP12 I don't think Co2 is the issue here, none of those plants pictured even need Co2 injection to thrive, aside from the s repens he mentioned. IMO this is much more likely a nutrient issue, judging from the yellowing and pinholes present in the leaves.

@tyler138 I've found the pre-made fertilisers like Tropica or TNC at their recommended doses just doesn't provide enough in a heavily planted tank, especially if you're using injected Co2. I was required to dose way over the recommended levels to meet the sufficient nutrient levels I required, and it just wasn't very cost effective. Have you thought about making your own fertilizers with dry salts? It's cheap, easy and there are even calculators on ukaps to help figure out what levels your aquarium needs. My aquariums have been thriving since I've been making my own ferts, and it's sooo much cheaper. Also, some of your plants might benefit from root tabs if you could get them.
 

JoshP12

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By water distribution do you mean the flow in the tank? I have been thinking this might be a problem as I only have a HOB filter, Tidal 35, and don't see the co2 bubbles all over the tank.

Need to know where diffuser is. But without that detail put HOB in centre and try first. Should flow down to front and back around like a pseudo spraybar.

Reposition will actually help a lot of things
 

JoshP12

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@JoshP12 I don't think Co2 is the issue here, none of those plants pictured even need Co2 injection to thrive, aside from the s repens he mentioned. IMO this is much more likely a nutrient issue, judging from the yellowing and pinholes present in the leaves.
Appreciate it - I’d still start there. those epiphytes also may not have soil so they will need richer water column. Truth is I’d do a lot
Of things all at once if it was me doing it … but it’s not … I’d start with co2 and flow.

If “the ability to get co2 right” was there - at startup it would have been perfect.
 
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GHNelson

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Hi Tyler
Drop checker....do you have one?
Move your diffuser near to the Tidal outflow, you don't need to purchase a new filter!
I would trim all the damaged leaves away from all the plants....to open up the flow to the affected plants.
Java Ferns like flow and extra Potassium!
Clean the filter regularly to keep up maximum output!
hoggie
 

tyler138

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Hi Tyler
Drop checker....do you have one?
Move your diffuser near to the Tidal outflow, you don't need to purchase a new filter!
I would trim all the damaged leaves away from all the plants....open up the flow to the affected plants.
Java Ferns like flow and extra Potassium!
Clean the filter regularly to keep up maximum output!
hoggie
At the moment I have the filter going length wise with the diffuser at the other end. I will give it ago moving the diffuser around the outflow or underneath maybe.

My thinking with the flow of the filter is, as it's a HOB, a lot or most of the flow is at the top.

I have a drop checker yes, currently next to the filter. I can struggle with keeping it the same through out the week, as water evaporates the flow changes with the filter. (try to top it up when I can)
 

tyler138

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Full shot of the tank.

Filter on the right, diffuser left.
 

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tyler138

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@JoshP12 I don't think Co2 is the issue here, none of those plants pictured even need Co2 injection to thrive, aside from the s repens he mentioned. IMO this is much more likely a nutrient issue, judging from the yellowing and pinholes present in the leaves.

@tyler138 I've found the pre-made fertilisers like Tropica or TNC at their recommended doses just doesn't provide enough in a heavily planted tank, especially if you're using injected Co2. I was required to dose way over the recommended levels to meet the sufficient nutrient levels I required, and it just wasn't very cost effective. Have you thought about making your own fertilizers with dry salts? It's cheap, easy and there are even calculators on ukaps to help figure out what levels your aquarium needs. My aquariums have been thriving since I've been making my own ferts, and it's sooo much cheaper. Also, some of your plants might benefit from root tabs if you could get them.
Is this the one you mean?

 

Ginkgo

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@tyler138 That's the one I use because it's a little more simple. You might want to use the IFC aquarium fertilizer calculator though to really figure out what your aquarium needs. There's a download link and guide on how to use it over in the Aquarium Fert Dosing section. But it does seem like Co2 levels and flow are the first issues you need to address, hoggie gave great advise. Maybe rule out the Co2 and flow issues first, then you could have a look at DIY ferts.

@JoshP12 you're right, I was wrong to assume the Co2 levels would be consistent enough not to cause issues. I haven't used Co2 all that much, but I do know fluctuating levels wreak havoc on a system. I apologise, I'll try to avoid jumping to conclusions in the future, especially when trying to provide advise to someone needing it. Maybe I'm a little too eager to help, as I know the pain of not being able to grow plants 😅
 

GHNelson

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erwin123

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Fertilizers used - Tropica Specialized. One pump on water change, Premium mid week one pump
Water change - 50% per week


The thing that caught my attention is that you are dosing 1/3 of Tropica's recommended dose for TSN - i.e. 1 pump per week whereas Tropica's website says 3 pumps of TSN a week for 50l. And no, you cannot compensate under-dosing TSN by adding 1 pump of TPN as TPN doesn't contain N / P. After 2 years, the aquasoil has probably been depleted of nutrients as well.

One pump (2ml) of TSN weekly equals to about 2.37ppm NO3 and 0.12ppm PO4
One pump (2ml) of TSN+ One pump of TPN weekly equals to about 0.73ppm K

Experts can correct me if my figures are wrong, but they look correct to me.
 

plantnoobdude

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The thing that caught my attention is that you are dosing 1/3 of Tropica's recommended dose for TSN - i.e. 1 pump per week whereas Tropica's website says 3 pumps of TSN a week for 50l. And no, you cannot compensate under-dosing TSN by adding 1 pump of TPN as TPN doesn't contain N / P. After 2 years, the aquasoil has probably been depleted of nutrients as well.

One pump (2ml) of TSN weekly equals to about 2.37ppm NO3 and 0.12ppm PO4
One pump (2ml) of TSN+ One pump of TPN weekly equals to about 0.73ppm K

Experts can correct me if my figures are wrong, but they look correct to me.
tropica is already quite lean, I would recommend dosing at or slightly above tropica recommendations! @tyler138
 

JoshP12

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@JoshP12 you're right, I was wrong to assume the Co2 levels would be consistent enough not to cause issues. I haven't used Co2 all that much, but I do know fluctuating levels wreak havoc on a system. I apologise, I'll try to avoid jumping to conclusions in the future, especially when trying to provide advise to someone needing it. Maybe I'm a little too eager to help, as I know the pain of not being able to grow plants 😅
No problems at all mate!! You were also correct … in that it is also likely related to a lack of nutrients … hence the substrate and epiphyte comment I made above.

:)
 

tyler138

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The thing that caught my attention is that you are dosing 1/3 of Tropica's recommended dose for TSN - i.e. 1 pump per week whereas Tropica's website says 3 pumps of TSN a week for 50l. And no, you cannot compensate under-dosing TSN by adding 1 pump of TPN as TPN doesn't contain N / P. After 2 years, the aquasoil has probably been depleted of nutrients as well.

One pump (2ml) of TSN weekly equals to about 2.37ppm NO3 and 0.12ppm PO4
One pump (2ml) of TSN+ One pump of TPN weekly equals to about 0.73ppm K

Experts can correct me if my figures are wrong, but they look correct to me.
Good catch, I will up the dosing for now.

Thanks all, I will try a few of these changes slowly and hopefully see some improvements.
 
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