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What causes head shrinkage in plants?

mrtank50

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6 Jan 2021
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47
Location
Türkiye
Hello friends.

All my 3 aquariums have head shrinkage. What could be the reason?

I use mgso4 and caso4 as re-min.

Tank: 125 liters
KH-0
GH-5
PH-5.5 -6
Fertilizing daily

no3: 3ppm (kno3)
po4:0ppm
k:1.5ppm
fe:iron gluconate 0.1 ppm

Soil: island amazonia 6 months old

co2 indicator yellow color

Light: osram 865 and 830 39*4

I am severely iron deficient.
 

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John q

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Lancashire

plantnoobdude

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17 Mar 2021
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Location
uk
Hello friends.

All my 3 aquariums have head shrinkage. What could be the reason?

I use mgso4 and caso4 as re-min.

Tank: 125 liters
KH-0
GH-5
PH-5.5 -6
Fertilizing daily

no3: 3ppm (kno3)
po4:0ppm
k:1.5ppm
fe:iron gluconate 0.1 ppm

Soil: island amazonia 6 months old

co2 indicator yellow color

Light: osram 865 and 830 39*4

I am severely iron deficient.
are you dosing any non fe micros?
this issue is probably an issue with Ca or B,
too much Ca can cause B uptake issues, too much B can cause Ca uptake issues.
if we could have both nutrient weekly ppms it would help thank you.
 

John q

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6 Jan 2021
Messages
1,232
Location
Lancashire
Is this the same tank that has 150 ppm co2? If it is I'd suggest dosing more of everything (ferts wise..) I'f this is a different tank, apologies..
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK

Why no KH ? having a little KH helps maintain stable CO2 levels
no3: 3ppm (kno3)
po4:0ppm
k:1.5ppm
fe:iron gluconate 0.1 ppm
Why such low levels of ferts and no PO4 ? again what about other trace elements
Soil: island amazonia 6 months old
Which may be exhausted of some nutrients as you seem to be dosing very lean levels.
I am severely iron deficient.
I doubt is Fe deficient-persa Fe deficient plants show interveinal chlorosis ( as well low as Zn and Mg)
co2 indicator yellow color
Which suggest there is a good [CO2] in some of the water near the DC for some time before the picture was taken. What is the flow like in the tank ? Do the plants wavy about in the flow ? Place a DC at bottom of tank and see what colour does it change.
A carbon deficient (CO2) plant will give leaf deformities and stunted growth. Which is what I would suspect/check first. Check flow in tank. What filter/powerheads do you have and filter outlets?

Have you done a pH profile to check if pH is stable from lights on till CO2 off ?

Once CO2 deficiency is rules out and good flow confirmed/checked. I would move on to other nutrients, dose a complete fertiliser well above the levels your dosing. EI dosing short term may be a good option and cut back nutrient levels once normal growth is resumed.
 

Hanuman

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4 Jan 2019
Messages
1,368
Location
Thailand
All my 3 aquariums have head shrinkage. What could be the reason?
I think we call that stunting.
no3: 3ppm (kno3)
po4:0ppm
k:1.5ppm
fe:iron gluconate 0.1 ppm
Provide a full view of your tank. But as said above, pump up those values. What do you think would happen if I started removing some essential nutrients from your daily diet?
I am severely iron deficient.
Maybe, maybe not. If you are dosing 0.1ppm everyday that would mean 0.7ppm weekly which is beyond even EI levels. This said, since Fe Gluconate is short lived you could have much less in the tank. However your soil is not so old so there should still be some iron in the substrate.

Here is my general comment on your posts. You keep on asking questions and creating threads by providing very partial information which makes it difficult to help you. You also don't follow up on what several members ask you by not providing follow up pictures and not answering certain questions. This makes it also difficult to address your concerns.
 
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erwin123

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4 Mar 2021
Messages
874
Location
Singapore
I think we call that stunting.

Provide a full view of your tank. But as said above, pump up those values. What do think would happen if I started removing some essential nutrients from your daily diet?

Maybe, maybe not. If you are dosing 0.1ppm everyday that would mean 0.7ppm weekly which is beyond even EI levels. This said, since Fe Gluconate is short lived you could have much less in the tank. However you soil is not so old so there should still be some iron in the substrate.

Here is my general comment on your posts. You keep on asking questions and creating threads by providing very partial information which makes it difficult to help you. You also don't follow up on what several members ask you by not providing follow up pictures and not answering certain questions. This makes it also difficult to address your concerns.
the problem is made worse because he says he has 9 aquariums and doesn't tell us which of the 9 he is referring to... from his past threads, different questions were in relation to different tanks... as for the photos above, he says he has a problem with 3 of his 9 tanks and then shows some photos and doesn't say which tanks they are from....

its so much easier to create a journal and to consolidate all the questions in the journal thread.....
 

Simon Cole

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25 Dec 2018
Messages
677
Location
Buckingham
@mrtank50 - so what we need can be found here.
(from my own perspective lighting would be good if you described more thoroughly because it seems from the description that you could have 5 lighting bars!)
(and if you are running 150ppm dissolved carbon dioxide with no dose of phosphate or other micronutrients then it will be fairly obvious what has triggered the stunted growth).
 

mrtank50

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Thread starter
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Location
Türkiye
Sorry guys for giving incomplete information. Please forgive me. I'm very new to the forum. And I had too much intensity. Please forgive.
 

mrtank50

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Thread starter
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Messages
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Location
Türkiye
So hard to give advice from a far..

Question would be from information above... why no P04??
I don't give phosphates because there is too much GDA. Honestly, I'm waiting for the GSA to come out.
I attribute the cause of GDA to high phosphate.
 

mrtank50

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Thread starter
Joined
6 Jan 2021
Messages
47
Location
Türkiye
are you dosing any non fe micros?
this issue is probably an issue with Ca or B,
too much Ca can cause B uptake issues, too much B can cause Ca uptake issues.
if we could have both nutrient weekly ppms it would help thank you.
believe me, i don't know.
I do not use tap water, only 100% osmosis. That's why ca - b cannot come from tap water.

As a micro, I only use 8 ml of seachem florush twice a week.

24 ppm mg-8 ppm as Ca

caso4 and mgso4
 

mrtank50

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Thread starter
Joined
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Messages
47
Location
Türkiye
Is this the same tank that has 150 ppm co2? If it is I'd suggest dosing more of everything (ferts wise..) I'f this is a different tank, apologies..
This is a different tank unfortunately. Co2 average 30-40 ppm
 

mrtank50

Member
Thread starter
Joined
6 Jan 2021
Messages
47
Location
Türkiye
Why no KH ? having a little KH helps maintain stable CO2 levels

Why such low levels of ferts and no PO4 ? again what about other trace elements

Which may be exhausted of some nutrients as you seem to be dosing very lean levels.

I doubt is Fe deficient-persa Fe deficient plants show interveinal chlorosis ( as well low as Zn and Mg)

Which suggest there is a good [CO2] in some of the water near the DC for some time before the picture was taken. What is the flow like in the tank ? Do the plants wavy about in the flow ? Place a DC at bottom of tank and see what colour does it change.
A carbon deficient (CO2) plant will give leaf deformities and stunted growth. Which is what I would suspect/check first. Check flow in tank. What filter/powerheads do you have and filter outlets?

Have you done a pH profile to check if pH is stable from lights on till CO2 off ?

Once CO2 deficiency is rules out and good flow confirmed/checked. I would move on to other nutrients, dose a complete fertiliser well above the levels your dosing. EI dosing short term may be a good option and cut back nutrient levels once normal growth is resumed.


Zeus is my dear friend.
I know 1-Kh 0 is much better. Maybe I am wrong.

2-The soil is 6 months old, the island is amazonia, so I use low fertilizers.
The reason why there is no PO4 is because it is always at a high level.
I am constantly taking GDA and have never seen GSA. I use it as micro element Seachem florush 2 times a week.

4-Ludwigia rose head color gone, I thought it was iron deficiency.

5- The tank is around 125-130 liters.

As the head engine, there is an engine that rotates 3000 liters per hour.
 

mrtank50

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Thread starter
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Türkiye
I think we call that stunting.

Provide a full view of your tank. But as said above, pump up those values. What do you think would happen if I started removing some essential nutrients from your daily diet?

Maybe, maybe not. If you are dosing 0.1ppm everyday that would mean 0.7ppm weekly which is beyond even EI levels. This said, since Fe Gluconate is short lived you could have much less in the tank. However your soil is not so old so there should still be some iron in the substrate.

Here is my general comment on your posts. You keep on asking questions and creating threads by providing very partial information which makes it difficult to help you. You also don't follow up on what several members ask you by not providing follow up pictures and not answering certain questions. This makes it also difficult to address your concerns.
hannuman you are absolutely right. i'm replying late. I just want to observe and explain better.
Sorry for that, I'll be more careful now.

I am sharing a photo of 1 of the tanks with head reduction.

You can get whatever you want from the fertilizers I add daily. I try whatever you see fit. You are the professor :)

I dose 0.1 ppm daily as iron gluconate, I think this is a very high level.
 

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Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
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I am constantly taking GDA and have never seen GSA.
Stop trying to fight/control algae, work on healthy plants, plants needs nutrients which includes PO4. Once your plants are growing well they will out compete the algae.

-Ludwigia rose head color gone, I thought it was iron deficiency.

No,

The tank is around 125-130 liters.

As the head engine, there is an engine that rotates 3000 liters per hour

Which suggests there should be enough flow in tank. Do the plants sway (sallanma) in the flow
 

John q

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Location
Lancashire
@mrtank50 reduce the light intensity and start feeding the plants, I guarantee you'll get better results than your getting now.
You're plants will never out-compete algae, however healthy plants will be far more resilient to algal outbreaks.
 

JoshP12

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8 Dec 2019
Messages
736
Location
Canada
At this moment (with the information I see), it’s phosphate.

Did you put power sand? I reckon not. Those plants look planted for quite some time ie have roots - so they have access to substrate nutrients … if still stunted … it’s phosphate.

I say at this moment, because when you pour phosphate, your metabolic rate of the plant will increase and force things off kilter.

I reckon you are dosing remineralizer at “some optimal ratio” to get 5 GH.

Leave KH 0.

6 months old means the early stages of root developement are done after initial planting - roots need LOADS of phosphate … so you quite possibly if no power sand depleted phosphate especially by driving it so high.

It also looks like gravel and not soil?

If it was me: root tabs right down to the bottom, daily water change (sorry) back to a datum target 5GH, 3ppm NO3 and 1.5ppm PO4 — daily iron with micros (concentrated solution not a scoop) - leave the light.

You need the water change to counteract the “nutrient off gas” from properly formulated root tabs (diy osmocote or miracle gro or Tropica).

TLDR: it’s phosphate right now. When you add phosphate you will have another issue. Don’t chase nutrients - move to wholistic approach as demonstrated above. Once the tank fixes itself and it will, ween off water changes … until you need to course correct. Trim and sell plants to recover the cost youve lost

Josh

Edit oh ya … when you dose PO4 everything green will grow … algae may get worse … but you doing dailies so remove it. It’s like implementing universal basic income without giving any to the rich … they get pissed … so everyone needs to win … algae will need to get worse until the system wins and chokes it back in place.

Edit edit! Could be co2 … never ever rule out flow or co2 … I assumed it was that 150 one and good flow.

But I mean despite everything I just wrote it’s probably wrong:

Here’s a question: did the plants look sexy within a week or two of planting? If they didn’t it’s co2 likely. If they did, it’s phosphate likely.

It really depends what happens next after you implement the reset, maybe we need to go 2 N 1.5 PO4 or turn up co2 or thousands of things really. Temp light etc
 
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