water change routine (again)!

[neilsc]

hi fish keeping folk,
I have another question regarding water changes in my newly set up walstad bowl.
Literally, I finnished the bowl yesterday, and from my reading it is not clear to me whether I need to change the water daily at the outset or not.
There is no heater or pump.
Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @neilsc, A couple of questions: Any filtration (I suppose not as you say no pump)? How big is the bowl? Do you plan to introduce livestock at some point?

I've never tried a Walstad bowl, but I believe the long-term idea of the approach is that you rarely change water, but essentially just top up evaporated water (if you dont have livestock). In the beginning though I believe I would change say 30-50% weekly for a month or so and then after that consider the tank to be mature enough. its really fascinating what people are able to do with these small no-tech setups. Yours look like its off to a good start 👍

Cheers,
Michael

 

[rdk1402]

You don't. Walstad is not a dogma. At least not to me.

The answer depends mostly on organic buildup in your tank (not much right now I presume), mineral scarcity and the contents of your water source.

 

[MichaelJ]

You don't. Walstad is not a dogma. At least not to me.

And you clearly knows 👍

Setting up a no tech glass vase

hi Folks, My first post on this forum and I am looking for a little advise. I am about to set up a no tech, (apart from a light) large glass vase (30cm dia x 30 cm tall). I am hoping to transfer some filter media from my already established nano tank and bury it in the new substrate. Will this...

www.ukaps.org

Cheers,
Michael

 

[PARAGUAY]

Exactly as Michael says eventually just top up while your plants filter the water. Might want to have a look on MDFishTanks he's quite successful with bowls @rdk1402

 

[jaypeecee]

The answer depends mostly on organic buildup in your tank

Hi @rdk1402

I'd be interested in knowing how you determine the extent of organic buildup in your tank.

JPC

 

[rdk1402]

Hi @rdk1402

I'd be interested in knowing how you determine the extent of organic buildup in your tank.

JPC

Hi JPC,

The last quarter of a century I've tried several things, open/closed systems, rich/inert substrates, with/without fish, water movement/apparently still, fancy lights/room light only, plant growth/growth + decay.

The last 10 years or so I've come to appreciate the latter; growth and decay. I allow plants to decay in my tanks, add dry leaves from my garden, and very much welcome different detrivores. So there's plenty of buildup in all my tanks.

I probably should assess BOD or something similar, but I'm lazy with these things. I simply apply a few practices to keep dissolved oxygen up (shallow tank, rooted substrates, bubbler to keep water surface clean) and look for plant signals, detrivore populations, and clarity of water. And perhaps fish signals as well, but I've never seen anything odd or unhealthy with my fish. Ow wait, that's a good thing .

Not sure if this answers your question.

 

[jaypeecee]

I probably should assess BOD or something similar, but I'm lazy with these things.

Hi @rdk1402

If it works for you, which it obviously does, why change?

JPC

 

[rdk1402]

Hi @rdk1402

If it works for you, which it obviously does, why change?

JPC

Curiosity sometimes.

 

[Jaseon]

Im not 100%, but i think that's what killed the cat.

 

[John q]

I would maybe ignore her advice about adding shrimp and snails from the get go, but here's how Diana would do a shrimp vase. I'm assuming you plan on adding shrimp?

https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrimprcs2017.pdf

Link taken from here:

Planted Aquariums

Information about ‘Ecology of the Planted Aquarium’ plus articles by Diana Walstad on planted tanks, tropical fish diseases, and guppy breeding.

dianawalstad.com

 

[neilsc]

Hi @neilsc, A couple of questions: Any filtration (I suppose not as you say no pump)? How big is the bowl? Do you plan to introduce livestock at some point?

I've never tried a Walstad bowl, but I believe the long-term idea of the approach is that you rarely change water, but essentially just top up evaporated water (if you dont have livestock). In the beginning though I believe I would change say 30-50% weekly for a month or so and then after that consider the tank to be mature enough. its really fascinating what people are able to do with these small no-tech setups. Yours look like its off to a good start 👍

Cheers,
Michael

hi Michael,
There is no filtration (hopefully plants will do the work), bowl (or cylinder) is 30cmdia x 30cm tall. In the future once things establish, I would like to add some red cherries and maybe the odd fish if things go well

 

[neilsc]

Hi @neilsc, A couple of questions: Any filtration (I suppose not as you say no pump)? How big is the bowl? Do you plan to introduce livestock at some point?

I've never tried a Walstad bowl, but I believe the long-term idea of the approach is that you rarely change water, but essentially just top up evaporated water (if you dont have livestock). In the beginning though I believe I would change say 30-50% weekly for a month or so and then after that consider the tank to be mature enough. its really fascinating what people are able to do with these small no-tech setups. Yours look like its off to a good start 👍

Cheers,
Michael

Oh forgot to say it holds about 20litres, although about 1/3 is substrate.

 

[neilsc]

Exactly as Michael says eventually just top up while your plants filter the water. Might want to have a look on MDFishTanks he's quite successful with bowls @rdk1402

MDfish tanks has been a good reference point for me, although its difficult to replicate his fully heated environment. We do shop at the same place though (maidenhead aquatics, wellington)

 

[neilsc]

I would maybe ignore her advice about adding shrimp and snails from the get go, but here's how Diana would do a shrimp vase. I'm assuming you plan on adding shrimp?

https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrimprcs2017.pdf

Link taken from here:

Planted Aquariums

Information about ‘Ecology of the Planted Aquarium’ plus articles by Diana Walstad on planted tanks, tropical fish diseases, and guppy breeding.

dianawalstad.com

hi John,
Thanks for the link. I hope to be able to add shrimp sometime in the future.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The last 10 years or so I've come to appreciate the latter; growth and decay. I allow plants to decay in my tanks, add dry leaves from my garden, and very much welcome different detrivores. So there's plenty of buildup in all my tanks.

Same for me. <"To vacuum or not to vacuum....that is the question.">, Dr Stephan Tanner talks about this as well in <"Aquarium Biofiltration">.

It is a process that is used in <"wastewater treatment">* as well ("complete oxidation following extended aeration") to produce a higher quality discharge water <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

I probably should assess BOD or something similar, but I'm lazy with these things.

You are good, unfortunately you can't easily measure BOD. We used to have the lab. set-up for <"5 day BOD">, but it isn't really something you can do an ad. hoc basis. There is some discussion in <"Do Healthy Plants Release Organics?"> and subsequent posts.

You can measure Chemical Oxygen Demand (COD) and <"Oxidative Reductive Potential (ORP)">, but both are too broad brush and neither really gives enough fine scale differentiation to make them of wider use. <"For us">, by the time either tells you that <"something has gone wrong">, your livestock are long dead.

I simply apply a few practices to keep dissolved oxygen up (shallow tank, rooted substrates, bubbler to keep water surface clean) and look for plant signals, detrivore populations, and clarity of water. And perhaps fish signals as well, but I've never seen anything odd or unhealthy with my fish.

<"Same for me again">, it doesn't sound as <"scientific"> as water testing the chemical parameters, but it is just an approach treating your tank as a <"mesocosm"> and its inhabitants as a <"Biotic Index">. <"Is expensive bio media worth it?">.

When scientists are <"looking at water pollution">, in both natural and wastewater situations they use <"bioassay organisms"> as the <"final stage of water assessment">. <"Asellus aquaticus"> and Crangonyx pseudogracilis are fine as <"tolerant organisms"> but we can't use <"Gammarus spp.">, Mayfly (Ephemeroptera) or Stonefly (Plecoptera) nymphs in the tank as "sensitive organisms" (due to the temperature effect on dissolved oxygen availability).

There must be tropical invertebrates which would be suitable, I just don't know what they are, or where to find them.
* this is a <"useful reference">, even if you aren't interested in waste water.

cheers Darrel

 

[Atragene]

For many years I kept crypt plants and minor beasties in the old screw top sweet jars. I guess of about 5 or so litres.
The plastic version I’m afraid and not glass, hence no longer. Several got “ infected” by various algal blooms at various times which usually disappeared but occasionally had to be re- started. None were ever fed and with screw tops only water every year or so. Was needed. The plants thrived and the water was generally crystal clear. So I think if you can top up with pure water quite happily. The plants were grow in some soil from the garden with a little peat added

 

[PaulLB]

I’m interested to see how you get on. I have a 15 litre bowl that is planted with Monte Carlo and hair grass. It had about 50 cherry shrimps in it (they bred after I put 5 in originally) and they kept algae under control but I was still getting some even doing weekly 80% water changes.

Algae got worse when I rehoused most of the shrimp to more spacious accommodation.

I’ve now drained the bowl and have returned to “dry start” to see if the plants recover and it seems to be working.

Maybe I’ll just flood it every other week

Good luck with your setup.

 

[neilsc]

For many years I kept crypt plants and minor beasties in the old screw top sweet jars. I guess of about 5 or so litres.
The plastic version I’m afraid and not glass, hence no longer. Several got “ infected” by various algal blooms at various times which usually disappeared but occasionally had to be re- started. None were ever fed and with screw tops only water every year or so. Was needed. The plants thrived and the water was generally crystal clear. So I think if you can top up with pure water quite happily. The plants were grow in some soil from the garden with a little peat added

I opted for garden soil mixed with sand (as it is quite heavy) in bags, topped with aqua soil (left overs) and small scatter pebbles. Hopefully it will work. The plants look to be 'taking' already. Be interesting to see how they mature.

 

[neilsc]

I’m interested to see how you get on. I have a 15 litre bowl that is planted with Monte Carlo and hair grass. It had about 50 cherry shrimps in it (they bred after I put 5 in originally) and they kept algae under control but I was still getting some even doing weekly 80% water changes.

Algae got worse when I rehoused most of the shrimp to more spacious accommodation.

I’ve now drained the bowl and have returned to “dry start” to see if the plants recover and it seems to be working.

Maybe I’ll just flood it every other week

Good luck with your setup.

thanks Paul, I'll post a few pictures as the tank matures. I'm hoping to populate with shrimp eventually.