• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Walstad

Thuddwhakkit

Seedling
Joined
31 Jan 2019
Messages
8
Location
London
Hello

I had an aquarium a long time ago with a relative degree of success. Now I'm settled and my kids are growing up I would like to keep fish again. I had an idea that I would like to try and work towards a mini-ecosystem in a tank and keep Loaches, Corys and Tetra. Another forum put me on to the Walstad method, which was a revelation to me. However, the members there have cautioned me against it, saying that is not the best method for fish, and certainly not a method for a beginner. I want a healthy tank and happy fish, so I am taking their advice on board and doing my research. I have bought Diana Walstad's book and love it, even though I don't understand a lot of the technical information.

I am planning to try out her method just to grow plants initially to see how far I get. I'm not sold on going full Walstad, and think that some amount of water changes and filtration will be necessary, but it seems that healthy plant growth is essential to the aquarium I want to achieve. This, and the fact that some of you have experience with Walstad tanks (good and not so good) has brought me here.

My ultimate goal is to have a healthy aquarium with happy fish, keeping the tank as natural as possible with a minimal amount of chemicals and technology. I'm not in a hurry to introduce fish and will be happy just growing plants for as long as it takes to understand how to maintain a natural tank.

That's me! I look forward to getting to know some of you and learning from you all.

All the best,
Sean
 
I'm not sold on going full Walstad, and think that some amount of water changes and filtration will be necessary

In a way she prooved contrary.. But there is a big BUT.. :) Just keep in mind she is a biologist pur sang already for decades and probably right on the marker the moment she spots something out of the ordenary. I guess it takes something realy strange for her to spot anything out of the ordenary.

And if you are not spot on 100% into understanding the Wallstad concept and not familiar with the risks involved with making mistakes than indeed doing no water changes and or having no filter can go horribly wrong and simply is playing with fire and with lives that are not your own.

With doing weekly water changes and having a sufficient filter you'll have a lot more slack and a lot less risk. And is a perfect better safe than sorry regime.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan of Walstad and she definitively is a guru in this hobby. All my tanks etc. are based upon her work. The only thing i do not get is "To what end does she advocate, not doing water changes?". I guess she just wants to prove a point. I know i don't know it all, but i can't think of one obvious reason why not. I'm probably to short sighted, that if your water from the tap is that horrible, you can better ask the question should i keep fish tanks at all?.
 
Hi all,
I'm not sold on going full Walstad, and think that some amount of water changes and filtration will be necessary,
Have a look at <"Walstad revises"> and links, it is quite a long thread but worth a read.
....but it seems that healthy plant growth is essential to the aquarium I want to achieve.
Yes, that is pretty much it, tanks with a <"large mass of growing plants"> (these have <"plant/microbe biofiltration">) are much more stable and resilient than ones that rely on microbial filtration.

Diana Walstad was particularly keen on plants with emergent leaves and access to aerial gases (oxygen and CO2), she called this <"the aerial advantage">. It is one of the concepts that underlies the <"Duckweed Index">.

Have a look at <"nitrification">, it talks a bit about why high carbonate hardness may not be necessary, Diana Walstad used soil with high carbonate hardness because it allowed her not to change any water (nitrification consumes hardness), but if you change some water this isn't an issue. I'm a rain-water user, but most people will just use their dechlorinated tap supply.

@Tim Harrison's <"soil substrate"> tutorial shows how successfully soil substrate tanks can grow plants.

sideon-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
On a basic level, you can stick to everything she says except for the no water change part and no filtration. Get decent filtration and do large weekly water changes and you'll have a successful tank. I believe Diana revised her advise at least about no filtration/water movement because the more water movement, the more dissolved oxygen, the more natural CO2 produced from aerobic decomposition, rather than what she initially suggested... Except for being a requirement for all
living things in a tank, high oxygen levels will also keep a non-pathogenic type of micro-fauna, which is the basis for a healthy and stable tank.

Diana Walstad was particularly keen on plants with emergent leaves and access to aerial gases (oxygen and CO2), she called this <"the aerial advantage">. It is one of the concepts that underlies the <"Duckweed Index">.

If you have the vertical space to incorporate emersed plants into your tank setup, I wouldn't think twice ;)
 
And if you are not spot on 100% into understanding the Wallstad concept and not familiar with the risks involved with making mistakes than indeed doing no water changes and or having no filter can go horribly wrong and simply is playing with fire and with lives that are not your own. With doing weekly water changes and having a sufficient filter you'll have a lot more slack and a lot less risk. And is a perfect better safe than sorry regime.

Thank you zozo, I understand the concern now. If things go wrong I would have very limited options with the full Walstad method, so definitely not a system for a beginner. I still love her concept and will take everything I can from her book, but I will use regular water changes and a filter just to be in the safe side.
 
Hi all, Have a look at <"Walstad revises"> and links, it is quite a long thread but worth a read. Yes, that is pretty much it, tanks with a <"large mass of growing plants"> (these have <"plant/microbe biofiltration">) are much more stable and resilient than ones that rely on microbial filtration.

Diana Walstad was particularly keen on plants with emergent leaves and access to aerial gases (oxygen and CO2), she called this <"the aerial advantage">. It is one of the concepts that underlies the <"Duckweed Index">.

Thank you Darrel. I'm working my way through the thread and links. Lots of really interesting stuff.

One thing I'm not clear on - do emergent plants benefit all of the plants in the aquarium by pulling Carbon into the aquarium, or is just a benefit to themselves because they have access to more CO2?

And yes, Tim's substrate tank is beautiful!
 
One thing I'm not clear on - do emergent plants benefit all of the plants in the aquarium by pulling Carbon into the aquarium, or is just a benefit to themselves because they have access to more CO2?

That's a very good and interesting question.. They might do a bit of both.. :) Since plants in general do not only respitate via the leaves but also via the roots. It thus also has an oxygen demand via the hair roots and also repsirates carbon dioxide from the very same hair root. Now i'm not quite sure how this theory functions in bog plants with the roots under water. I can't realy find any usefull datat on that. But it seems that over watered and potted terrestrial plants switch to an anearobic respiration producing alcohol instead of (or also) co². That also can kill the plant if the wet soil aint aerated sufficiently.

I guess Darrel / @dw1305 can shine a lot more light on that question.. :)

Anyway if emersed plants with the roots in the water are in the tank than sufficient aeration of the tank water is a pre.. Kinda makes use of a filter providing circulation a pre as well.. If not the least much more effective than a stagnant or only natural circulated tank..
 
One thing I'm not clear on - do emergent plants benefit all of the plants in the aquarium by pulling Carbon into the aquarium, or is just a benefit to themselves because they have access to more CO2?

Just to follow up on what Marcel said above. You can keep the roots oxygenated by planting in suitable media such as clay pebbles. They're cheap too.

As for aquarium plants, apart from CO2 and light, they take up minerals such as nitrogen(ammonia,nitrite,nitrate), dissolved metals of all types and a range of other things. That's what makes them grow. When CO2 is limited, such as in the case of submerged plants, the plants will grow at the rate of the most limited nutrient, i.e. CO2. . When you give them unlimited CO2, they can theoretically take up unlimited dissolved minerals from the water column. Those "minerals" are the product of fish waste of all kinds....thus the plants are actively cleaning the water. Combine this with water changes and good filtration, and you'll have one happy bunch of fish, not knowing what is a fish disease....
 
Hi all,
do emergent plants benefit all of the plants in the aquarium by pulling Carbon into the aquarium, or is just a benefit to themselves because they have access to more CO2?
They might do a bit of both.
I think Marcel is right, it is a bit of both. You have to make a differentiation between organic and <"inorganic carbon"> (D (or (T)IC), emergent plants aren't going to add much inorganic carbon (unless you have a deep tank without much water turn-over).

Access to CO2
The main advantage to the plant is definitely access to atmospheric CO2. I think the original premise was that plants could make more use of the available nitrogen, just because they aren't CO2 limited. This meant that if you had an increase in ammonia the plants would show a flexible enough response to stop toxicity developing. This could be either:
  • As stocking density increased the plants would act as a <"negative feedback loop"> with increased growth (so CO2 converted to carbohydrates and oxygen via photosynthesis), or
  • They would buffer against a sudden increase in ammonia levels (from a dead fish, or emergency chloramine dosing etc.), by both taking up extra ammonia and providing extra oxygen.
There are still proviso's, you could have a situation where other nutrients are limiting. Carbon (C), oxygen (O) and nitrogen (N) are the ones that are most likely to be limiting, but any of the other essential nutrients could be (again with the other two macro-nutrients (potassium (K) and phosphorous (P) being the next most likely).

Organic carbon in the aquarium
<"Plants are complex and leaky structures"> and emergent plants have extensive "plumbing" to transport gases to their roots. Roots in active growth are going to foster a much more complex and resilient microbial flora in the <"rhizosphere, the zone surrounding the root">.

cheers Darrel
 
Thanks for all your replies. Every time I come here to reply to your messages I get side-tracked with so many interesting articles and threads...

I think I've got it - the main benefit is to the plant itself, which in turn benefits the whole aquarium in that emergent plants can better respond to changes in water chemistry and help maintain equilibrium because they aren't CO2 limited. Secondary advantage is in better serving and developing the aquarium ecosystem, which benefits everything else in the aquarium, albeit in a smaller way?
 
Hi all,
I think I've got it - the main benefit is to the plant itself, which in turn benefits the whole aquarium in that emergent plants can better respond to changes in water chemistry and help maintain equilibrium because they aren't CO2 limited. Secondary advantage is in better serving and developing the aquarium ecosystem, which benefits everything else in the aquarium, albeit in a smaller way?
That's it. This is where the ecology bit of <"The Ecology...... "> comes in. Under <"Darwinian theories of natural selection"> altruism doesn't really exist, but complex, <"resilient and diverse ecosystems"> can, and will, develop over time.

If you think about another "aquatic gardener", the Beaver (Castor fiber), it builds a dam, fells trees and stockpiles the sunken wood (mainly alder, willow and poplar) entirely for its own benefit, but that process increases the possibilities for other organisms. In the same way that Beavers are <"ecosystem engineers">, so are emergent plants in the aquarium. Aerial and emergent plants increase the possibilities for organisms to grow, they provide extra surfaces and zones (probably most importantly in the root zone) where new organisms can grow.

Ecologist refer to these possible spaces as <"niches">, and you just have more of them with emergent plants than without. Productivity is limited by the amount of resources in a system, but species diversity is usually <"greatest in low nutrient situations">.

cheers Darrel
 
Does anyone here own a Juwel 180? I need to know the size of the overhang at the top of the cabinet, but can't find out anywhere online. I have emailed Juwel but they replied to say they do not have that information!
 
Push Juwel a little ;) (that was the unthinking “not in my list of FAQ” reply)
Though you’ll likely need a model number as there are slight changes through the years

Phone is likely easier
Ask if they have a showroom - easy to measure then
Ask for technical service contact - supervisor
Ask for sales service contact - supervisor
etc
:twisted:

Of course it’s also likely easier just to ask the sale shop to measure for you :D
 
Thanks alto, giving Juwel another nudge got me the information I needed.

Can anyone offer advice on Juwel Rio 125L LED vs Aqua One Oak Style 145L - which would be better for growing plants?
 
Last edited:
Do you need the lid?

I did a quick google for the Aqua One Oak 145 (& I have a decided bias against that style article f aquarium cabinet - hopefully these look better IRL) and list is £399

EA Aquascaper 600 with Cabinet DELIVERED is £399 which is definitely designed as a planted aquarium (lots of footprint for plants, less height so better surface area to volume ratio (important consideration if you are going Walstad)

Tall tanks + lo-cost LED means very low PAR at substrate level (which is where most plants begin, especially any carpet effect plants) - you can design very nice scapes that take advantage of the heights of these taller tank

Juwel Rio line is good aquarium finish (glass quality, silicone) but I wish they’d update their cabinet design - I prefer the Lido for its cabinet style (but then tank is taller) - Juwel Interzoo 2018 had amazing Lido display tanks combined with their new Helialux lighting



BUT all these aquariums are grown in with CO2 ... note that first Lido (in video) could be minimal water changes and trimming re plants chosen (not sure what attracts you about the Walstad approach, it can work very well, but it’s rare to have the sort of thriving plant growth seen in these CO2 enriched tanks)

Not sure if Eheim offers anything in similar price range
Maybe this from Charter House (Eheim site is down)

https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/s.../vivaline-led/eheim-vivaline-led-180-oak-grey
Glass Dimensions(Width) 100.00 cm
Glass Dimensions (Height) 45.00 cm
Glass Dimensions(Depth) 40.00 cm
Like the EA Aquascaper series, this is more of a planted aquarium design tank
And would get my vote at the £412 All In One Kit price

Note most of these AIO kits are underpowered re lighting, it’s a compromise to make the price point but if you’re going low tech and choose plants carefully, it’s possible to get a very nice scape
With the taller tanks, I’d plan on upgrading lighting at purchase, usually very easy to add a second LED unit to Juwel & Eheim kits, I don’t know much about Aqua One
 
Can anyone offer advice on Juwel Rio 125L LED vs Aqua One Oak Style 145L - which would be better for growing plants?
I think like Alto mentions above, if you can afford it you'd be better off going for a rimless and braceless tank, especially if you want to grow emergent plants. Aquarium Gardens has a range of different tanks including the EA Aquascaper. Shallow tanks are best since they have a greater surface area to volume ratio, which means greater O2 and CO2 exchange. Check out Maxing CO2 in Low Techs.

42271203582_222f25bf61_b.jpg
 
Back
Top