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Using CO2 Efficiently

Or, just use an internal filter, then you only have the tank itself to worry about.
True, you can eliminate all opportunities of leak except the tank seam by employing internal filters. But most internal filters are ugly, and sponge filters are the worse. There is, however, a poret foam design that I like marketed by this company:

http://www.swisstropicals.com/library/cornerfilter/

It doesn't do the "living art"-part any justice if you have internal filters or HOB (which can also leak by the way... :crazy: ), internal reactors or any internal plumbing imo.
Clearly visible equipment doesn't really enhance the look of any tank for me.
I can't really enjoy a tank riddled with in tank equipment so it's not even an option for me, ever...
I have canister filters (5 atm) with inline equipment in my living room for years and never had any leaks. :bored:
For me canister filters and such hold the same risk as a possible leak in the tank itself. (Or a HOB cracking and leaking...) It's part of the game...
And let's be serious: it happens rather rarely provided the proper material, good care and caution so why compromise?
;)
. ;)
I fully understand why majority of the plant folks prefer canister because of aesthetic, and silence. No other filters can even come close to competing with canister in those aspects. I use HOBs as a compromise with safety concern first. I tried to hide the intake pipes with plants but it's no perfect solution. HOBs can still leak or overflow, but with no external plumbing (only external box), the opportunities to leak is far far less than canister that has O-rings, clamps and external hoses. Adding an in line reactor, particularly DIY type, is more opportunities to leak. I have read enough leak and flood accidents of canister that scare me from using it in my living room.
 
Do you know of any reseller of the Gigg's reactor in Europe? I found nilocg in the US but nothing in Europe
 
If wasting worries about flooding due to external equipment look at some of the Aquanano range of tanks. All the pumps and filtration is in a section in rear of the tank. Have decent filtration rate as well, suitable for high tech CO2 tanks.
 
I try whenever I can to keep equipment out of the tank purely for aesthetics. Sometimes people need the function though. A lot of people photo their tanks with equipment removed then put it back in to function. For instance the Twinstar things, eheim surface skimmers and koralia pumps etc.

Seems anything that's handy is just down right ugly. Best solution is getting an over the top flow rate filter but some people can't afford them.

I think Juwel had the solution which is effectively a Matten filter and enclosed heater inside the tank in a compartment but people didn't want to lose the real estate in the tank. An old Aqua one I had was also a good idea where it had a trickle filter in the lid but it was no good for keeping gas.

In all the years I've been keeping tanks I've never had a canister leak on me. The closest I ever came was using a sera reactor installed out side the tank which relied on the pressure of the tubing on it to make a seal. After a while they mould to shape and lose their seal. Canisters are different though as they generally have a system for tightening up the pipe again.

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I try whenever I can to keep equipment out of the tank purely for aesthetics. Sometimes people need the function though. A lot of people photo their tanks with equipment removed then put it back in to function. For instance the Twinstar things, eheim surface skimmers and koralia pumps etc.

Seems anything that's handy is just down right ugly. Best solution is getting an over the top flow rate filter but some people can't afford them.


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I have two basic, classic eheim canisters on my "high tech" tank to get an over the top flow rate (together rated at 2.000l/h on net 140l of water).
Inside my tank i only have two sets of lilypipes, a heater and a dropchecker. All placed against the same side panel so not really disturbing (provided they are kept clean).
Two inline diffuser (in front of the canisters so no visible bubbles) so no need for any in tank equipment.

I just ignore the need for them twinstar thingies, skimmers and wave pumps altogether. ;)
 
Do you not get any problems with the eheim classics of co2 collecting in the filters with diffusers on the intakes?
That is one of the issues with this method but how would you even know?
There could be 4-5” of gas trapped in the top of the filter but if you can’t see what’s going on inside how can you tell and the other question is does it matter if there is trapped gas!
Well perhaps a PH profile would show something up, I have seen this posted before where folk can’t understand why the Ph hardly changes overnight, it is because the filter is still dissolving trapped gas for hours after it has been switched off.
Whether that matters is yet another question......
 
By the looks of the pics of the Ehiem 600 classic 2017 the filter canister is a light transparent green. So you should be able to see into the filter.
There are no filter baskets etc in this filter. So if co2 don't get trapped in the impeller cavity as it sounds like it doesn't,filled with bac balls or simular it could make a good co2 reactor?
 
The biggest issue I would suggest would be the gas collecting inside the impeller housing rather than the canister body When you take the canister apart even after it has stood for ten minutes the impeller is still warm to the touch. The impeller is self cooling and lubricating in so far as it is always submerged in water. The risk being that if you get a co2 pocket in the housing you run the risk of the impeller getting hot, rattling about and wearing it down quicker.

I haven't experienced this yet but then again I don't inject directly into the intake pipe s not all the co2 ends up in there. What I found when using reactors was you had to knock the co2 a little bit earlier than usual and off a bit earlier as they seem to retain gas longer although, that could be down to the fine mist not floating about in the tank getting inside the drop checker and making it react quicker?

Also had burping from my filter when the gas was turned up high enough even with the atomiser on the outlet. If there's enough mist floating about in the tank sooner or later quite a lot of it is going to end up in the canister especially if you have your flow set up son the end point of the outflow is the filter in take to get a swirling action.

I get round the worrying about whether it's going to damage my canister by being in a local fish keeping buy sell and swap group on Facebook. There's canister filter on there all the time for buttons So whatever. So far though I've never damaged one by letting co2 go into the canister.

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I've tried it so far with my tetratec 1200 and a fluval 306 co2 just gets caught in the filter and both have Ended up coughing and burping co2 so not a good idea with these filters. But from what I can gather the Ehiem classics are just a filter canister and the pump is in the housing/casing above the canister?
Going to keep my eye out for a second hand one and give it a try I think.
 
There is reason why all commercially made reactors are installed after the canister. Feeding CO2 into a canister can shorten the life of the impeller in several ways. First, it can cause cavitation, explosion of micro bubbles that physically erode the impeller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation Second, carbonic acid is corrosive to metal parts, such as the impeller shaft. The highest concentration out of the reactor is most corrosive. Third, if an air pocket is formed around the impeller, it can overheat.
 
Carbonic acid is a very weak acid and will not react with metals in your filter. However CO2 does dissolve in rubber snd there have been numerous reports of rubber seals failing when exposed to CO2. Depending rubber type the rubber either melts or hardens.
 
Aside from the burping/ coughing of the filter I would think all of the above could probably be applicable what ever way you choose to inject co2 into the water column?
The main reason I have had to change a filter is due to the priming button failing this is prob due to co2 damaging the rubber flap structure used in most of these?
 
Possibly Dave, co2 does tend to make rubber and plastic parts quite brittle.
 
Carbonic acid may be a weak acid, but in high concentration off the reactor, and synergetic with cavitation effect and the presence of strong electrolytes (fert), can take a toll on stainless steel over time. When the impeller or the shaft is shot, the first thing you notice is clicking noose due to out of balance rotation.

I upgraded my gas fired hot air heating system a few years ago with a 95% efficiency furnace which recovers fugitive heat from the CO2/H2O exhaust. The byproduct is carbonic acid and must be discharge carefully in corrosion resistant conduit. The installer told me that these high efficiency furnaces have more repair issues than old ones due to CO2 corrosivity and design complexity.
 
I upgraded my gas fired hot air heating system a few years ago with a 95% efficiency furnace which recovers fugitive heat from the CO2/H2O exhaust. The byproduct is carbonic acid and must be discharge carefully in corrosion resistant conduit. The installer told me that these high efficiency furnaces have more repair issues than old ones due to CO2 corrosivity and design complexity.
Absolutely nothing to do with carbonic acid which only exists in solution, and cold/cooler one at that. Boiler flue gasses are contaminated with hydrochloric, nitrous and nitric acid and sulphuric acid which are many many many times stronger acids than highly unstable carbonic acid, which is why quality stainless and suitable plastics must be used. Carbonic acid attacking metals...unlikely in concentrations and pressure we meet.
 
Absolutely nothing to do with carbonic acid which only exists in solution, and cold/cooler one at that. Boiler flue gasses are contaminated with hydrochloric, nitrous and nitric acid and sulphuric acid which are many many many times stronger acids than highly unstable carbonic acid, which is why quality stainless and suitable plastics must be used. Carbonic acid attacking metals...unlikely in concentrations and pressure we meet.
What are you talking about boiler flue gas. I am on natural gas, which is methane. CH4 + O2 = CO2 + 2H2O
In old furnace, CO2 and steam exhaust through the chimney. In high efficiency furnace, the heat of the exhaust gas is recovered resulting in condensation of carbonic acid. The exhaust gas runs through stainless steel coil for heat exchange, and over time, the coil is ruined and needs to be replaced.
 
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Do you not get any problems with the eheim classics of co2 collecting in the filters with diffusers on the intakes?

Nothing dramatic.
I run quite a high BPS on both. It happens that the filters burp once or twice by the end of the day but rather sporadic and small burps.
I lied before (more being lazy): it's one eheim classic and one eheim Pro3 and not two classics.
I noticed when the classic burbs, it spits the co2 out in very fine bubbles, finer mist then the atomiser itself.
When the pro3 burbs it produces a couple of big bubbles.

The eheim is indeed transparent and i checked the top of cannister a few times when i started this method to see it there was any gas build up during burping.
Funny enough there was not one big bubble of trapped gas under the pump during the burping but a continuous stream of bigger bubbles came out of the last filterbasket, those bubbles moved fast through the top layer (between basket and pump) and got sucked up in the pump...
So if a co2-pocket was formed it appeared to be in the media basket and not at the top of the canister...

However CO2 does dissolve in rubber snd there have been numerous reports of rubber seals failing when exposed to CO2. Depending rubber type the rubber either melts or hardens.

I'm not doing it long enough yet to evaluate any possible impact on filter/seals/parts.

Am a bit wary now anyhow...
Trend set...
I guess 2019 will be riddled with stress, sweat and nightmares from the word "go"... :bored:
 
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