Tracy Island

[Big G]

Afternoon everyone.

Thought it about time to start my journal as I’ve reached a certain waymark in the process and reflection, further study , questions and feedback seem the way to go.

Although not necessarily ideal, I bought a Fluval Spec V, some Dragon/Ohke stone (at least I think it is), a heater and built a mock-up, cardboard playpit to the rough dimensions I had to work with.

The Dragon stone clearly needed some work so I just started with some basic sand and bits of cardboard box as I was keen to get stuck in with practicing aquascaping. I had decided I would be using twigs from my garden as I had a couple of bags of clippings from hardwood trees that had been lurking around for two seasons waitingbto either incinerated or taken to the dump. Some of these twigs, for scale, seemed to have really attractive colour and patterning.

I continued to read, watch vids and buy bits....

 

[Big G]

Part 2.

I was rapidly gathering kit and had made the dreadful mistake of ordering some plants. Whilst they were happy to sit on a windowsill in pyrex dishes under clingfilm, it did force my hand a bit. If I had waited to order them until after I had the aquascape where I wanted it I could have avoided some frustrations I‘m now encountering.
Plants at that point were;
Java moss, Anubis nana, marimo balls and Salvinia. All epiphetic or floating as early on I was just looking at straight sand as a substrate.

I bought some of this plastic grid to use as a base but also to support structures both temporarily and permanently. I didn’t use as much of it as I thought I would on this occasion.

I got some incomplete AND complete substrate as I couldn’t decide what way I wanted to go with planting. This was always going to be a tank built with shrimp in mind. As I had never kept any before I was thinking Neocaradina, perhaps a Blue dream variation.


scaping practice continued as did prepping, chiselling, sawing, sanding and general mucking about with various pieces of stone and wood. Meanwhile the plants kept pearling away in its pyrex, steadfastly staying green but needing a home.

 

[Big G]

Part 3

First stage was to build a better playpit as my first attempt was leaking

I set the backwall at the actual tank height as a guide this time too. Stone and twig cleaning continued as did designing. I always had in mind a U shaped layout with some sort of concealed cave for the shrimp and preferably a few different terraces. I think by now I had settled on substrate with a sand cap but couldn’t decide how I would achieve that without the two fouling each other.
in the end I just used a basic layer of cut down nylon media from bags in a very rough and ready mat. I wouldn’t do this next time but I’m still wedded to sand caps as I favour a lighter and finer substrate look. I would probably go for loosely packed , fine denier pop socks of complete substrate which could be manipulated between and under the big rocks and then further smaller, tighter pillows to pack out any gaps.

Anyway, this is how it went for now


I glued some sprigs of Anubis and Java moss in a few in places and slowly filled the tank from the filter chamber, which I thought would be a great way of not disturbing the substrate.

note: in my desire to get the tank going, bearing in mind I would be going for a fishless cycle, I decided I could continue building the wood structure and place it in further down the line....

 

[Big G]

Part 4

oh dear. Having siliconed up the lower escape channel between the filter chamber and the main chamber, filling up the filter chamber with water meant the only exit for that water was via the pump outflow....right onto a very delicate sand over substrate terrace on the left. Result = a cascade of mixed media running over the rock and forming a scree slope of substrate over the sand on the left foreground
I bought some Micrathemum ‘Monte Carlo’, sat very patiently with a teaspoon and did my best.
I’m waiting for some materials to make a Java moss wall on the left, below the filter intake.

The Salvinia, because of the pump output top left, was mainly grouping on the right so the MC is mainly foreground left so it gets the full blast of the light. The groupings centre left at the back and foreground right I don’t expect will make it, but we’ll see

I know this is bone of contention on here but yes, I did some chemistry yesterday

some of the results are a little alarming.

Baseline results with tank running less than a week;

gh 17d
kh 10d
ph 7.6
ammonia 0.5 ppm
nitrite. 0.5 ppm
nitrate 80ppm
TDS 308 ppm

I’m not actually convinced that I will be able to keep even neo’s in that kind of TDS. Still, it’s one set of results and very early days. I’m looking at RO and wouldn’t rule it out as a fallback position if other things don’t settle down or work.

I confess to dropping in a pinch of old fishflake food for no other reason than curiosity. Up to a certain point, beyond which my brain melts, the telemetry from chemical testing is interesting and intriguing to me.

The wood is going to have to be soaked or glued to rock and placed behind the terrace on the right. I will get some mid and background stems but they will need to be to scale. I know I need a lot more plants. To be honest, the plants are what I got back into this hobby for and keeping a nice tank of happy plants will be enough.

I expect the tank will take well over a month to cycle.

Feel free to jump in on this. Kindness and maturity appreciated.

BG

 

[Ray]

Baseline results with tank running less than a week;

gh 17d
kh 10d
ph 7.6
ammonia 0.5 ppm
nitrite. 0.5 ppm
nitrate 80ppm
TDS 308 ppm

I always found fish less cycling with a test kit kind rather fun in a science projecty kind of way... .
Do those values match the water report from your water provider?

BTW, there are other substrate colours than black, and some have a powder form, so you can try to match: https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-substrate-soil
ADA Aquasoil Malaya powder might have done the job, for example.

Looking forward to seeing the moss wall.

 

[Big G]

I always found fish less cycling with a test kit kind rather fun in a science projecty kind of way... .
Do those values match the water report from your water provider?

BTW, there are other substrate colours than black, and some have a powder form, so you can try to match: https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-substrate-soil
ADA Aquasoil Malaya powder might have done the job, for example.

Looking forward to seeing the moss wall.

Cheers Ray,

The water report from this area on their website is pretty cryptic but I will take another look at it and see if I can patch any of the metrics across to my findings. Talking of which, my testing regime has changed a little and I’ve come up with a more standardised way to undertake it.

I’m taking 250ml of water from the tap and running Ph and TDS on it as a comparison to the tank water - I’ve got a TDS/EC/Temp meter and now a Ph meter as I’m messing around with some basic Kratky hydroponics with some chilli pepper plants.

Then 250ml of tank water and doing TDS/Ph again from that before filling test tubes with that water to do Kh,Gh, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.

I’ve also substituted ‘invert a couple of times’ with ’shake well’ on those points in the various test procedures. The API test tubes are not great to be honest. They leak a little if insufficient pressure is placed on them when shaking.

Results from last set of tests are;

Tap Ph 7.81
Tap TDS 327

Tank...

Ph 8.47 (7.8 from API test kit - make of that what you will)
TDS 220
Kh 5
Gh 9
Amm 0
Nitrite 2ppm
Nitrate 40-80ppm

quite a change but then by changing my testing routine it’s impossible to draw any conclusions from that. I’ll test a couple of times a week for the next few weeks and maybe a pattern will emerge, maybe it won’t.

It’s tempting to get hung up on these tests and start pre-emptively rolling in banks of 6- stage RO processors, ph modifiers and goodness knows what else but it is what it is and the proof is in the plants. Are they healthy? Are they rooting and/or growing/changing? This is the important thing I think. I love the science bit although I have more chance of mixing a good cocktail than re-mineralising RO correctly. Note; hydroponics is similarly test-heavy from the get go if you let it be. The same real-world rules apply though.

I added another good pinch of old goldfish flakes and watched them settle, flaccid and jaundiced on the substrate and plants, hoping they will in some way, at some point, give me an actual, measurable ammonia reading

The Salvinia has gone bonkers and I’ve thinned it out. The thinnings have gone into an outdoor solar fountain and I’m curious how they get on with no food sources as such (can’t dose the water as the cats drink from the fountain )
One or two of the Anubis leaves appear to be on their way to pegging it but I’ve left them for now.
The Marimo balls are all several shaded of green. Gotta keep an eye on that. Maybe give them a roll about.
The Monte Carlo seems ok but its early days.
The Java Moss is growing and stretching out from the nooks it was glued into and fine green algae is starting to form on it and the tank glass. I’m not worried about either at this point as at least it proves some sort of biological action is happening in the tank (I think). I’ve slightly trimmed the moss and lightly cleaned the tank glass. I’m more interested in keeping on top of the limescale tide marks that appear in this hard water at the waterline than I am about the algae at this point.

I’ve taken out the carbon filter packet that came with the kit from the filter block based on the homespun logic that it might be inhibiting the formation of a nice biological culture in the filter media. Probably doesn’t work that way but I’m having fun.
Replaced the perforated (by me) pump pipe back to the main section because it had weakened the output flow too much. Perforating the pipe helps to circulate the static water in the pump chamber as well as balance temperature better, which I’m sure it does but it also weakens the output force and thus potential circulation/turbulence in the tank. It was a tip I had read that made sense but perhaps in mind for people wanting to keep a Bette Splendens I guess. Either way I prefer the improved rolling surface action and circulation.
I have put some fine filter floss on top of the filter basket. It’s far too early for such a measure asI’m wanting to build up bacteria cultures but now it’s in it will stay as it can perhaps contribute to cultivatable surface area.

The twigs are still ongoing as, although they have now become waterlogged, I want to join some of the together to make a sort of tree, have that attached to a piece of stone and the place it in the tank as one. Im hoping I can avoid screws and drills to attach the ‘trunk’ to the stone so I plan to experiment with glue and/or the glue and cigarette filter technique although I have no idea if the latter works between wood and rock as it does between rock and rock. I haven’t had a chance to experiment with either yet but will tell all in due course.

The moss wall is being held back because the mesh is taking ages to turn up. The moss is still sitting in water in a dish on the windowsill and slowly turning pale despite changing its water 3 times a week.

As far as lighter coloured complete substrates? Do you know, it just didn’t occur to me at all that this was an option. Thank you so much for that heads up. Going to save me endless hassle going forward.

I really appreciate help such as Ray’s (thank you again Ray). I would like to think there may be even one person out there going through or thinking of going through the stages I’m going through with what is a popular starter kit (love it or hate it) and the least you can do is have a laugh at some of my mistakes, discoveries and thoughts.
That’s me done for now.

stay safe

BG

 

[Big G]

Ok so we’re now into day 26 according to the Aquarium Note app. The tank looks like this


I experimented with the cigarette filter(or in my case cotton from earbuds)/cyanoacrylate method;


..which worked well and then went for Java Moss covered sponge to try and create ‘foliage’ on the tree. I would have used a lot more but it actually took quite a chunk of my available moss so more will be added in time and the moss mat now goes on the back burner for a bit. The tree sits quite nicely in it’s position as I nipped away at the stone until it would sit on the terrace, back right. Easy to get out for cleaning, pruning etc.

I’ve also added some Rotala Rotundiflora in a few spots. It’s a beautiful plant which has a lovely pink pigment in it’s upper stems. Might need some shuffling around as it was a rockwool bunch and the roots are well developed so needs good planting. One bunch I had to glue a small fragment of stone to, about an inch above the roots, to sit in the tank but I’m sure it will bed in.

All the other plants; Micranthemum MC, Java Moss, Anubias Nana and the Salvinia seem ok but they’ve all been heavily colonised by green string algae. I’ve had to develop my techniques for dealing with this as well as my kit which now includes;

An old RAC plastic membership card for glass cleaning.
A turkey baster for ‘tooting’ algae out of hiding spots and then using the vacuum effect to extract it.
A miniature sort of ice cream scoop/ high sided spoon thing from the cutlery drawer for taking out/adding in sand/substrate very accurately.
A tea strainer which I can use with above for separating out the stray substrate powder from the sand as the mesh retains the powder and lets the sand through.

I’m continuing to seed the system with a bit of fish flake food but do so directly in the filter chamber now. It’s easier to manage and should have the same effect as it breaks down into a mulm of sorts.


You can see the tank in context here and I’m using the tree to wedge the light on for maintenance. Not a safe way of working I know

Chemistry-wise I’ve become just a little more laid back and haven’t tested for Kh & Gh for a bit. TDS seems to drop to around 220 if I leave the water for a bit but is about 300 just after a water change. I’ve done one big algae clean-up and did two 50% water changes one after another and a couple of 30% changes thereafter. Ph is a bit of a mystery as the pen says 8.2 and the API says 7.8 so I’ll split the diff and say 8. Either way it could do with being lower for the forthcoming shrimp. Indian almond leaves are an option and there are others. I have ph down for my hydroponic pots but it’s incredibly powerful. Even 1 drop in a cup of water stirred then a couple of drop from that into a 2 litre hydro mix can drop the mix ph by 1 whole point in the click of a finger. Not a route I want to get into with the tank.

I’ve got a citric acid/baking soda based co2 system on it’s way and I believe it may knock down the ph.

Ammonia is now on or around zero, nitrites are zero and nitrates somewhere typically in that no-mans land of 40-80ppm before a water change.

The plants seem to be holding their own for now but I’m not yet fully tuned into each grouping enough to detect discernible growth.

The plan remains to see how the co2 works out, keep knocking back the algae, hope that the plants establish and out-compete it and wait for an ammonia response from the fish flake.

I suspect the algae is aided and abetted by a lot of indirect light from a number of windows as the tank sits in a spot just between a kitchen and conservatory which has some blinds. I almost have to admire the tenacity of the algae but am under no illusion that, if left for two weeks, it would throttle every plant and occupy every surface. I follow Marks Shrimps (love those vids) and he occasionally napalms his tanks with a weak solution of h2o2/ hydrogen peroxide but I hope it doesn’t come to that.

Would like to think the tank will be mature enough to safely house a family of Neocaradina within about the next month.
Design-wise, it more or less how I imagined it but I need to somehow break up that big void in the back centre. Wood or maybe that moss wall perhaps.

Already got plans for another tank which will just be everything I have left hardscape wise, an old internal canister Eheim, maybe a Necrew light or a plant grow light etc. Simple(ish), Iwagumi(ish), and for growing on spare cutting and other experiments. Might even go full Walstad.

Anyway, hope everyone is good.

Another update in due course.

regards

BG

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @BigG

I know this is bone of contention on here but yes, I did some chemistry yesterday

some of the results are a little alarming.

Baseline results with tank running less than a week;

gh 17d
kh 10d
ph 7.6
ammonia 0.5 ppm
nitrite. 0.5 ppm
nitrate 80ppm
TDS 308 ppm

It's not a bone of contention with me to talk about test kits. And, I'm not alone on UKAPS in using test kits. It's a shame that it has to be this way. But, hey ho, what's wrong with being in the minority? So, down to business...

When you say that the "results are a little alarming", I assume you're referring to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? From what I can see, it looks like you don't have any inhabitants in your tank at the moment. Is that correct? There aren't many creatures that could survive with your ammonia and nitrite levels. What substrate material are you using as this is likely to be the source of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Big G

I’m not actually convinced that I will be able to keep even neo’s in that kind of TDS.

What do you consider to be a more suitable TDS? I guess you think 220ppm is too low? If so, I'd be inclined to agree but I'm no expert on shrimp.

JPC

 

[Hufsa]

...220ppm is too low?

Should be just fine to keep neos in that, keeping in mind that TDS can be a lot of things, but if we are talking about minerals and some ferts making up the most of this 220 ppm then its perfectly good for neocaridina.

 

[Big G]

Hi @Big G


What do you consider to be a more suitable TDS? I guess you think 220ppm is too low? If so, I'd be inclined to agree but I'm no expert on shrimp.

JPC

Can only go by what I read and see from the web. Broadly, 300 seems too high but I’ve read it’s possible but not ideal. 220 seems ok with 250 being the upper broad threshold for Neo’s. Since my tap water comes in at around 320 and a partial water change with that brings an equilibrium of 300 falling to 220 within 48 hrs, its not impossible, just not optimal. I want the little kritters to be happy and well. I need to talk to a few LFS’s, email a few people and probably pose a question in ‘inverts’ here when we get closer.

UPDATE (on earlier post) - seem to have a couple of uninvited worms in the tank. Brownish, about 5-7 mm long, lurking around some wood. Bolted as soon as I went in with pincettes. Haven’t decided how to react yet. Still gathering information. At this point it could be nothing, nuking from space or a full abort and rethink. Frankly, I’m quite mortified

At this point shrimps look very unlikely.

BG

 

[Big G]

Should be just fine to keep neos in that, keeping in mind that TDS can be a lot of things, but if we are talking about minerals and some ferts making up the most of this 220 ppm then its perfectly good for neocaridina.

Hello Hufsa,

You’re on the same part of the planet as the aforementioned Mark from Marks Shrimps I believe.?

I know very little about factors composing TDS but it’s another topic I want to delve into but what you say makes sense. I’ll not be risking getting any critters until I’m as sure as I can be I can give them a fair shot of things. If I’m not convinced, I’ll rethink my options.
I’ve been dosing TNC Complete as per instructions but may back off a little to see if it makes a difference to the algae/plant balance.

This new bit of drama outlined above has taken my thinking in a diffent direction for the moment. It’s currently full of thinking about baited traps, dog worming powders, h202 and Dune !
cheers

BG

 

[Hufsa]

Hello Hufsa,
You’re on the same part of the planet as the aforementioned Mark from Marks Shrimps I believe.?

Indeed I am
I wouldnt sweat it too much with your parameters, GH 9 seems close enough to me. Granted im not a youtube shrimp guru but ive been selling off hundreds of excess shrimp despite having some molting issues likely caused by keeping them in too soft water. What im trying to say is that they are quite resilient little critters

Id definitely hold off on them until you find out if you need to nuke your tank and burn your house down with your mystery worms though, it gives you a lot more treatment options -nuke wise

 

[Big G]

Gotcha ! (In the dead centre with MC leaf behind it)

I’ve cropped and punched up the contrast to try and make it stand out.





Well, here’s our uninvited little guest. Best I could do with my phone camera but I think it’s good enough. Clicking on the pic should give a good view.

Round profile, sections , grey/brown and clear alternating chunks with a black head. Seems to lurk in the Monte Carlo.

It’s ‘safer’ there as I throttle back with the vac around the MC because I’m trying to let it root in the sand cap. (May have to rethink that) That’s Tropica soil grains permeating the sand.

I’m going to get a planaria tube and see if I can’t snare them whilst water changing and Vacuuming the MC as hard as I dare. Might take out all the MC and quarantine it for a bit on a windowsill in a jar with clingfilm over it. Maybe blast the MC with a weak h202 solution. Can go deeper with the vac then.

Depending on the results I may have to consider unleashing chemical warfare in the form of Fembendazole or bettle nut extract.

Failing THAT, it’s regrettably going to have to be a full stripdown, decontamination, rescape etc. Shame as I think the denitrifying bacteria are active and maturing. The Anubis has put on a couple of leaves, the MC is holding its own, the Salvinia is thriving and the moss has had two trims.

Must try and ident the ‘Xenomorph’ and use conservative approach before moving to def con 1. As Husfa says, having no Tweedlebugs in there gives me a wider arsenal of options.

Any help appreciated

best wishes
BG

 

[Big G]

Hi @BigG


It's not a bone of contention with me to talk about test kits. And, I'm not alone on UKAPS in using test kits. It's a shame that it has to be this way. But, hey ho, what's wrong with being in the minority? So, down to business...

When you say that the "results are a little alarming", I assume you're referring to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? From what I can see, it looks like you don't have any inhabitants in your tank at the moment. Is that correct? There aren't many creatures that could survive with your ammonia and nitrite levels. What substrate material are you using as this is likely to be the source of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

JPC

So very SorryJay, I must have missed this as I’m mainly working off a small ipad & mobile in lockdown so threads can shoot past. Yeah, you’re right, no fauna, and yes, I believe any nitrite or ammonia is bad. Since then things ahve improved, ammonia seems to read 0 (zero) but could be 0.25 as its not the punchy yellow on the chart. It’s yellow not lime green, just not saturated yellow like say, the Nitrate bottle #1 solution is before one puts bottle #2 in, you know?

nitrite was 0 (zero) but can fluctuate to 0.5 possibly with all the water changes, turbulence and disruption I’m engaged with in my ground offensive against Wormy McWormface at the moment
Peace

BG

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @BigG

No apology required whatsoever. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in the use of test kits. That was all.

You are right, of course. Any measurable ammonia and/or nitrite poses a threat to tank inhabitants. I think you're using the API Master Kit, if I remember rightly? If so, I can't comment on the specific colours you will see. I use other test kits.

JPC

 

[Big G]

Hi @BigG

No apology required whatsoever. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in the use of test kits. That was all.

You are right, of course. Any measurable ammonia and/or nitrite poses a threat to tank inhabitants. I think you're using the API Master Kit, if I remember rightly? If so, I can't comment on the specific colours you will see. I use other test kits.

JPC

Yeah, API, the standard Master kit plus their GH& KH kit. Could you tell what alternative you use or have had better, more critical results with?

I’m just about to deep delve into Diana Walstad’s book and will be curious what she has to say, amongst everything else, about new tanks and also, if anything about possible critters that come in with the Dirted Method i.e. spores, larvae etc. I’m thinking at the moment that Wormy McWormface hitched on the back of the Rotala or something laid onto one of the Pyrex dishes on my kitchen windowsill where the plants lived for a while because I got my gear-ordering timings wrong. A blow in from the kitchen window dropping something there after perhaps investigating some dog p00, primal soup of life, bish bash bosh, hello Mr McWormface.

I hope someone out there is laughing at my keystone cops mistakes because I am.

Got aphids on some of my Carolina Reapers too so it’s critter time in the Big G household ! Shame I can’t send in the B52’s loaded with Neem oil like I can with the ‘Reapers.

having fun

BG

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Big G

Yeah, API, the standard Master kit plus their GH& KH kit. Could you tell what alternative you use or have had better, more critical results with?

The API combined GH and KH test kit is fine. I use this.

I use JBL test kits for most of my measurements. But, I also have test kits from Tropic Marin, Industrial Test Systems (ITS) and Hach. When using tap water conditioners, some test kits can give incorrect results. I think it's advisable to use test kits from the same manufacturer as the tap water conditioner. I quite like Seachem products for this reason. That way, if you run into any problems interpreting test results, you have only one company to deal with. I have always found Seachem's technical support to be good plus they have their own forum on which you can put questions to other users of Seachem products. And, no, I'm not on commission! JBL's technical support, on the other hand, is not their strong point!

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The water report from this area on their website is pretty cryptic but I will take another look at it and see if I can patch any of the metrics across to my findings.

Paste it up, but you will have hard water, pretty much fully saturated with calcium and bicarbonate ions.

There are geological reasons for this, mainly that the aquifers are all chalk, with that chalk extending across the channel and N. Sea into Europe.

The Salvinia has gone bonkers

That is a pretty good indication that you have <"plenty of nitrogen">.

Well, here’s our uninvited little guest.

You are good I think, it is a midge larvae and nothing to worry about.

I know very little about factors composing TDS but it’s another topic

TDS is a <"bit of strange one">, because none of the TDS meters actually measure TDS, they all measure electrical conductivity (in microS) and then use a conversion factor (usually 0.64) to estimate the TDS in ppm. This makes the assumption that all the TDS is comprised of ions, which is usually pretty near the mark.

cheers Darrel

 

[Big G]

Hi @Big G


The API combined GH and KH test kit is fine. I use this.

I use JBL test kits for most of my measurements. But, I also have test kits from Tropic Marin, Industrial Test Systems (ITS) and Hach. When using tap water conditioners, some test kits can give incorrect results. I think it's advisable to use test kits from the same manufacturer as the tap water conditioner. I quite like Seachem products for this reason. That way, if you run into any problems interpreting test results, you have only one company to deal with. I have always found Seachem's technical support to be good plus they have their own forum on which you can put questions to other users of Seachem products. And, no, I'm not on commission! JBL's technical support, on the other hand, is not their strong point!

JPC

Thank you. I’m sure my bank of pills and potions will grow in due course and will look at these options more deeply. I’m using API Tap Water Conditioner which fits your thinking and with which I concur. Yes, Seachem are right in the mix on many levels ; Prime and maybe a few other potions including, dare I say it, glutes/Excel for spot treatment as and when. I’ve got a small sachet of Purigen to go in the tank once it’s a little further along and the nitrifiers are working. Seemed a waste to put it just now but I can’t quite explain to myself why, just a feeling. Interesting on customer support, hope it never goes that way but you never know.

Thanks again Jay

BG