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The Green Reaper

Ceg, thanks for the information.

One thing i've noticed is that stability and that the tanks vitality in general is an all important condition to getting the a display tank full of colour and happy healthy inhabitants.

I'll leave the lights for now, I want to get the tank stable and then i'll increase intensity slowly to hopefully improve colours.

Dosing and maintenance regime right now :

- Profido Easy Carbo (liquid carbon) - 1.5ml per day
- Profido Ferrol (iron supplement) - 1ml per day
- TNC complete fertiliser - 2.5ml per day
- Water changes 50l 2/3 times per week using seachem Prime.

I'll be adding Seachem 'Purigen' in the filter after it's been soaked.

Some photos of the tank right now, noticed a lack of colour but also less algae growth on the glass, plants, substrate, less in general :

38741279281_0249162206_c.jpg
20171130_104018 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

37853810865_3a1180544a_c.jpg
20171130_104343 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

26965069339_03647033e9_c.jpg
20171130_104402 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

24868203008_125ae5361b_c.jpg
20171130_104410 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

24868189398_11f8317f1d_c.jpg
20171130_104416 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

38741217261_6e91ea00bd_c.jpg
20171130_104422 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

37853749655_8228cc6e07_c.jpg
20171130_104435 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr
 
Hi Anthony,
Adding Purigen to your filter will add drag and will reduce the flow rate. Changing the water does exactly the same thing as what Purigen does. Have a read of the thread https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/can-purigen-strip-down-useful-nutritients.26850/

Flow/distribution is the most important thing right now. My advice is to wait until you have a more muscular filter.

Also, when you do the water changes, take out enough water to drop the water level as low as the fish will tolerate and allow the plants that are exposed to air to dry out a little. This gives them a big gulp of air which contains CO2 which they can store in their tissues for use when you fill the tank.

You may also want to consider dry dosing of salts as a more economical and efficient way to provide nutrition. You are spending a lot of money for essentially, water in a bottle.

Cheers,
 
Ceg

EI salts will be my next purchase when i run out of the TNC all in one.

Regarding filter I have a couple of options

1) Upgrade to the 1500xl which is 2400lph stated.

2) Add a second filter, most likely a 2217 classic so my combined turnover would be 2000 lph

I like the second idea purely as it's cheaper and gives me some redundancy in case one fails. I am both limited on cabinet space and surprised that my filter isn't up to the job (though i know quoted lph are massively over-rated)

Regards
 
Yes, we always have to assume that the filters deliver only about 50% (at best) of their rated flow because they are tested with very little head pressure and with zero media in the bucket. This is a well known cheat. And we know that the leaves require some flow over the surface which generally translates to somewhere between 3X-5X turnover. So we took the phony flow rating into effect and came up with a 10X rating rule to ensure that the filter could move the proper amount of water over the leaves.

Of course a single filter greatly simplifies the installation of external reactor and so forth, whereas multiple filters mean multiple reactors and multiple gas lines etc. However, if that does not bother you then sure, go for the multi-filter approach.

Cheers,
 
Thanks for the reply. Understand where you're coming from, it's just frustrating as mine already exceeds the 10x turnover limit?

I'm not too fussed about extra intakes / spraybars, as the monster externals usually have twin intakes anyway.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply. Understand where you're coming from, it's just frustrating as mine already hits the 10x turnover limit?
OK, hang on. I had to go back to the OP. It says Fluval Roma 90 which is a 23 USG and Eheim Pro 3 450 GPH? Is this correct?
If so there is no need to get more pumping power. You should have more than enough flow for that tank.
Sorry, I don't know why I was thinking it was a 90 USG tank. I must have confused your tank with someone else's tank.
No, please don't spend any more money mate. This is good enough. The tank will respond to the changes you made.
Bad things happen quickly in a tank but good things take a while.

Cheers,
 
Many thanks for the continued help and guidance, I hope the results will show eventually.

The Eheim professional 3 350 is stated at 1050 Lph - which equates to 277 Gph - which equates to 12 x volume turnover I believe. The turnover should improve once the blue foam arrives to replace the mechanical and half the biological media too.

I'm happy to buy a second filter to improve flow if that's deemed necessary.

Now going back to the plants, we've concluded that plant colour isn't an indicator of plant health, merely stress response to protect it from sunlight and other factors, but what about plant vigour?

The reason I ask is a lot of the stems, using the Rotala Wallichi for example, is growing very 'narrow' and leggy rather than having that 'fluffy' look it's had way in the past and in other tanks.

Many thanks

Anthony
 
Hi Anthony,
Not all color response is associated with stress. Many pigments appear as a direct result of health and response to the spectral environment. In specific cases such as yours, where the plants were under light stress from the Radions the plant produced pigment as a form of protection. When the protection was no longer needed, the resources were diverted to other important functions. As you mention, when the plants are healthy they can and do produce colors, but those pigments are produce for other functions. Pigments cost energy, so the plant does need to be healthy to produce these other pigment types. So there are different reasons for pigmentation.

Narrow and legginess are a direct response to poor flow as discussed in the post https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/old-skool-returnee-london-tap-water.24040/#post-246834
Just continue to prune the leggy plants and they will become bushy.

Cheers,
 
Ceg,

Pigmentation is one thing I crave, as I imagine, do most aquascapers, I hope to see it come back in the not too distant future.

I think next WC i'll trim the plants, replant the tops and hope to promote some bushier growth (currently performing 3 x 50l water changes per week).

Also to add, during the WC tonight, I removed the mechanical media and 1/4 of the biological media, replacing it with coarse filter foam.

And as a final note, my Dr Meter PH 100 arrived, so will attempt to calibrate tomorrow and see what the pH is like at lights on.

Many thanks
 
Kessil A160 tunasun bought :rolleyes:
Cool, have you bought a bigger, deeper tank to match the light? or does it have a dimmer that you can turn it right down?
I have not read every post on this thread but it seems to me that, as yet, you have not quite found the best working ratio of light & C02. I cant imagine adding such a powerful light will help at this stage?
Good luck though .... :)
 
It's been purchased for a few reasons :

1) I intend on upgrading my tank in the next 12 months, either to a 24" cube , or a more conventional 36" x 18" x 18"
2) I had Kessils on my old reeftank, and while they were poorly suited to growing demanding Acropora, the shimmer they created was stunning, and i'd like to see the freshwater version in action.
3) I intend to mount it over the existing tank - but wait Ceg before you sigh in exasperation :eek:, it will be run at the lowest intensity, only used for 1 hour at midday as a sort of intense burst. The intensity if the radions will also be decreased to suit, then when the plants are fully healthy I can play with the light settings.

To get back to the tank, the flow from the filter seems to have improved with the removal of the mechanical media, which i'm pleased with so I may hold off a filter upgrade for now.

Still performing 3 x 55(ish) litre water changes per week. Still dosing liquid carbon, TNC ferts at EI estimative levels and iron supplement also.

Here is where the level drops to - not too drastic I hope :

27051242439_232728a339_c.jpg
WC by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

No colour from the plants yet, however the algae is pretty much non existent! :)
 
Carrying on the same regime :

- 55l water changes every 2 / 3 days using tap water / seachem prime
- 10ml TNC complete daily (rotala butterfly calculator estimates 90ml per week for EI levels)
- 2ml liquid carbon daily
- 1.5ml FE supplement daily

Sodastream CO2 ran out in 15 days which works out at 28 grams per day or £1.66 per day - very pricey. Will be installing the 2kg FE today.

Lighting, radions intensity increased by 2% to 22% peak, Kessil running lowest intensity on a timer from 1230 - 1430 hours.

No algae so far, literally none.

Radion / Kessil combo :

24116691687_6e07dbe415_c.jpg
Combo by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Tank as of today :

38980986061_cd3c33d3eb_c.jpg
20171211_095430 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

38264948844_4784c5a6ac_c.jpg
20171211_095401 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Noticing the L repens has coloured up as it reaches the light, have trimmed a few Rotala and added L super red 'mini' and some more L arcuata.

Equipment wise:

- Still considering a filter upgrade as opposed to adding additional filters, it's either going to be an Eheim 700 4e (1850 lph) or Eheim 2260 / 1500XL (2400 lph)
- Kessil spectral controller
- CO2art pro elite regulator
- Vortech MP10 QD for less footprint in the tank (dryside motor sits on the outside, just wetside in the tank)
- I'm planning a tank upgrade in 12 months, potentially to a EA aquascaper 1200 or a Red Sea Reefer (sumped I know) 350.
 
Hi Anthony,
Yes, if you can afford the bigger filter then definitely go for it and you may be able to remove the wavemaker and have a sleeker looking tank.
As I mentioned before, as the plants put on more weight and become healthier, they can more easily adapt to the additional stress of higher light as long as the CO2 remains excellent. You can always increase intensity and then back off if you start to see that they are not adapting well to the new stress level. It does take time for them to adjust however, so I would be very gradual in increasing intensity.

Cheers,
 
I'm hopefully collecting a pre-owned Eheim 700 3e with an increased cansiter capacity of 14L and a quoted output of 1850 lph (increased from 1050 lph).

I'll update tomorrow hopefully having collected / installed the 'new' filter.
 
So went to collect the Eheim 700e today, the gentleman asked me if I wanted any 'spares' for nothing, I of course agreed and he produced another 700e, though none working smart panel.

Got them home, factory reset on both and now all working - £800 worth of filters for £110! :)

All sorts of smart features like a 12 hour reduced flow 'night' function, self purging, re-calibrates daily, stream mode.

Will install one of them tomorrow - it's gonna be a tight fit!

38383193104_4514e2f1de_b.jpg
Eheim 700e by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

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Eheim 700e (2) by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr
 
What a nightmare these 'smart' filters prove to be - so finicky to get running correctly.

Installed one of them today and I have to say - i'm distinctly 'underwhelmed' by the flow increase - looks barely any more powerful than the filter it replaced, despite being 800lph more powerful. I have switched the powerhead off though, so maybe i'm use to seeing the overall flow with this on.

Comparison shot :

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20171217_095326 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Media :

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20171217_094140 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Bio media fill level :

38396973944_c05270da17_b.jpg
20171217_094149 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Generic coarse foam shot :

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20171217_094202 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

In situ :

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20171217_101534 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr
 
A few updates :

- Figured out the filter, turns out max power isn't max power, thats the factory default preset to 1100 lph, it can be further increased to 1850 lph. I'm running it at approx 1400 lph right now.

- Regime is the same as before, 2 x 50l water changes per week, 10ml TNC complete, 1.5ml Profido FE, 5 ml liquid carbon daily.

- Got a snail explosion in the tank, very small, but numerouns and eating the plant leaves now

- Increased the intensity of the Radions to 30% from 22%, will monitor the algae outbreaks and adjust if needed

- Noticed some BBA on the drop checker and Crypt Parva, I think this is down to CO2 inconsistencies which was down problems with the mechanical timer controlling the CO2 solenoid.

- Also noticed that the plants tend to colour up well when they're close to the surface, such as the L. Repens and L. Super red mini. So i'm not sure how to increase light to get good colour at lower water levels, but not so much that it encourages algae growth down there?

Pre trim :

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Pre trim by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Minor trim and water change :

38300583615_8207ae47ba_b.jpg
Post trim by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Nuisance snails :( :

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Nuisance snails by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Ludwigia with different coloured growth tips :

38300643275_ef5c6657c5_b.jpg
Ludwigia colour difference by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

BBA :

24316520027_f6f37707c1_b.jpg
BBA by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

A bit on the yellow side.... lol :

25311964908_f03e35afe0_b.jpg
Drop checkerjpg by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr
 
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