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The Green Reaper

Yes, you really don't need a whole lot, especially if it's the sintered glass or ceramic noodle type. These really have a negative impact on flow.

Ok i'll remove about half the media then, see if this helps any.

Whatever supplemental pumps you use, they should always be mounted on the same wall as the spraybar and face the same direction as the holes in the spraybar, i.e. towards the front glass. Pumps can also be placed directly under the spraybar to assist in moving water across to the opposite side.

I'll also relocate the spraybar to the back wall, with the powerhead on the same wall, would this be better high / mid or low level? I'll situate it to the right half as the spraybar only covers half the tank length.

really wouldn't worry too much about the number of variables right now. The priority is to get the tank healthy. The only thing to worry about is to ensure that the variable that you do change is in the positive direction.

Very true, I hope it does head in the right direction as it's proving more than a little fruitless at the minute - it just goes to show that buying decent equipment counts for nothing if you don't have the knowhow for the hobby (all the gear, no idea)[/QUOTE]

understand that the spread of a single unit is not aesthetically pleasing, but when you run the two together it's best at this point to keep their outputs low because you will be doubling the PAR output to the tank.

I created a second 'aquarium' on EcoSmart live and linked the left hand Radion to this profile.

Right hand (main) Radion schedule :

26847635899_93da55e605_c.jpg
Main radion by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Left hand (supplemental) Radion schedule :

26847630569_0562a9214c_c.jpg
Supplemental Radion by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr[/QUOTE]

may also want to think about adding some cheap stems or sword plants to the tank to get the biomass up as that will help. you can always throw them out later if they don't fit with your scaping plants, but a high plant mass helps to stabilize the tank.

Cheers,

I picked a few plants up while out Black Friday shopping (nightmare!)

Hygrophilia Siamensis 53B
Legendera Meeboldi 'red'
Eleocharis acicularis mini (I understand this one is very slow growing so i'll probably kill it off).

A couple more things :

- I moved the drop checker to the bottom right corner near the front where plants seem to struggle - it was a lime green verging on yellow all day
- My new Crypts and stems have melted away after a few days, hoping they return after adapting to the tank, though I have NEVER had success with Cryptocornes of any description?
- As it sounds like my CO2 is the weak link here would you recommend increasing the output any, even though the drop checker indicates it's in the 'ideal' range, and i'm running 3 - 4 bps? Or are all the answers / solutions lying in purchasing a pH meter?
 
- I moved the drop checker to the bottom right corner near the front where plants seem to struggle - it was a lime green verging on yellow all day
Hi Anthony,
It really doesn't matter where you put the DC as it will not be any more accurate. My advice is always to place the DC where it is easiest to read. Have a read of the DC article in the Tutorial section. The reading is always about 2 hours old. The DC is OK as a visual indicator but we are trying to get instant readings, not readings that are 2 hours old.

Or are all the answers / solutions lying in purchasing a pH meter?
Well, knowing the instantaneous measurement of pH is really important. It doesn't have to be a pen. The kits that use reagents are fine, but they are annoying to use, and interpreting the colours and comparing to a chart can sometimes be difficult, so a good pen is the best tool for the job.

My new Crypts and stems have melted away after a few days, hoping they return after adapting to the tank, though I have NEVER had success with Cryptocornes of any description?
A shame that. Crypts really don't like a lot of light combined with poor CO2. A lot of people buy crypts and place them in the tank where the promptly melt. The hobbyist promptly blames esoteric causes such as "adaptation to water parameters" or "doesn't like being moved". All of these rationalisations are fantasy. The melt is a direct result of a CO2 shortfall.

It could be that you need to increase the injection rate, or to turn the gas on earlier, but I hesitate to suggest that because there are fish in the tank and we do not know the story. The gas should normally be on 1-2 hours before the lights but if you have that schedule and if the DC filled with 4dKH water is lime green at lights on then theoretically that should be good. This all falls apart however, if the light intensity is over the top.

Looking at your schedule for the two Radions, I can see that you have set the max power on each to 40%.
So as the second unit reaches it's peak at about 3pm, the first unit has only slight fallen off from it's peak. The sum total energy is the same as if a single unit were at 80% - at least it will be near that value at some point where the spread of each intersect. Whatever plant is in an area where the two spreads meet wilt be pummelled by a lot of energy.

I was thinking, for the moment anyway, to reduce the peak level of each to somewhere around 20%.
Once flow/CO2/distribution are sorted and the plants stabilised then it would be a simple task to slowly raise the peaks.

The Hygrophilia is a tough cookie and is a good indicator plant. If it starts to melt then you know you are in really deep yogurt.
'll also relocate the spraybar to the back wall, with the powerhead on the same wall, would this be better high / mid or low level? I'll situate it to the right half as the spraybar only covers half the tank length.
We should strive for as much symmetry in the flow output as possible - at least as a starting point. Sometimes this doesn't work due to geometry of the tank or hardscape placement and so forth, but always start as symmetrically as possible. The flow output of all pumps should match in height and it should be placed in the centre of the remaining distance from the edge of the spraybar to the opposite wall.

The more symmetry and alignment we configure the flow, the more mass of water we can move and the more even the flow across the length of the tank. Again, this is all theoretical. Adjustments may have to be made based on reality.

Cheers,
 
Many thanks for the in depth response.

I've reduced the intensity of both Radions to 20% peak.

I'm gutted about the crypts - i've never been able to keep them.

So we keep talking about CO2 shortfall - how do I overcome this? Increase the BPS a lot? I have an inline atomiser which is supposedly pretty efficient at CO2 dispersion via filter outlets....

Tomorrow i'll be performing another WC, that will be 3 50% WCs this week, i'll also relocate the spray-bar and mirror the powerhead with it for symmetry and remove an amount of the filters media.

The frustrating thing is seeing all these gorgeous tanks on here with half the equipment I use, except they look amazing while mine looks embarrassing.....
 
I'm gutted about the crypts - i've never been able to keep them.

So we keep talking about CO2 shortfall - how do I overcome this? Increase the BPS a lot? I have an inline atomiser which is supposedly pretty efficient at CO2 dispersion via filter outlets....
Well, if the roots haven't melted then there is a good chance the leaves will return. Leave them and check to see if they are still viable every now and again.
It could easily be that a simple injection rate increase will solve the problem, but we really don't know yet until we see the pH profile. If you are brave you can do that, but CO2 is a four headed monster Light-Gas-Flow-Distribution.

Everyone talks about how their DC is lime green, but if the lighting is OTT then you may need so much injection rate to solve the CO2 demand that it annihilates the fish.
So maybe with your lighting you need a yellow DC when the lights come on.

This is why I attack the lighting issue first because everything starts with that. More light means you need more CO2. If you fix the light, it may be that you don't need to do anything else.
But we won't stop there. We attack the other three factors and try to solve the problem holistically.

I reckon the seeds of destruction started when the second Radion was added. I went back to your earlier posts to study the photos and I saw that there were unchecked algae at the lower regions on the glass.

I don't recall if this is exactly your model but I wanted to show you how easy it is to go over the top with lights. These lights were developed for reefers who can't get enough light.
Look at the PAR distribution on the far right in this image. This is the PAR distribution at 100% power at a distance of 24 inches (61 cm) below the fixture. A PAR of 121 micromoles within a 15 inch diameter circle centered directly beneath the fixture. At 5 inches (13cm) these numbers are doubled. Between 5 inches and 24 inches the numbers fall somewhere in between.

radion-4-xr15-2.jpg


There is something we measure in plants called the Light Compensation Point (LCP). This is the minimum amount of light, measured in PAR, a plant needs to survive.
Crypts, ferns, moss and plants like Anubias have an LCP of between 10-15 PAR. That's their minimum, and so of course, in order to grow then need more than the minum.
But they do not need 10X this amount, and if they are blasted with that much then the CO2 needed to keep them alive must be epic.

You are using two of these fixture, so because of the spread the numbers are doubled only where the spread patterns overlap.

Here is a suggested lighting scheme. They don't cover your type of light, but I just wanted to show you the target PAR values.
You can see that Medium light is between 50-75 PAR and ideally, when you start the tank, you want to stay in the blue zone, which is below 50 PAR.

Crypts really prefer the blue zone. They do OK in non-CO2 injected tanks, but if you provide PAR values above this zone CO2 really becomes important.
PARforVariousBulbs (1).jpg


So it's less about the equipment being used, and more about how to implement the equipment and to understand what things matter the most.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
 
Thankyou for your input regarding my lights and realised you're probably right re: the adding of the second Radion. It was only added to improve light distribution / spread.

My fixtures are the the previoius generation G3s and freshwater so somewhat less powerful but still easy to go OTT. The intensity has been dialed back to 20% max, and i've noticed the plants that were reddening such as the Rotala Wallichi and Ludwigia sp. have lost their red tips and gone back to green :(

Dialed the CO2 up yesterday but think I went too much the other way as the drop checker is yellow and fish are a bit lethargic with the plants actively pearling so dialed this back by about 10%.

Tough finding a happy medium and where to turn next, a bit gutted about the colour loss in the tank, along with the melting plants.

I guess my next steps are :

- pH meter to create a pH profile over the photoperiod.
- Try and improve CO2 distribution without causing hypoxia.
- Create an acceptable PAR level at all levels that don't cause the plants to demand CO2 levels I can't provide?

Not sure what else I can do?
 
Hi Anthony,
Mate, you mustn't get disheartened. In fact the results of your experimentation are actually quite revealing.
The fact that an injection rate increase improve performance confirms that the tank suffers CO2 shortfall. Of course we knew that all along but also, I assume that the pearling occurred while the two units were set to the 20% maximum? If so then this proves unequivocally that you do not need massive lighting to drive excellent health & growth. This is an exciting revelation man, be happy! :clap:

So now we know that we have to work on gas dissolution and or flow/distribution.

Please also note that hypercapnia in fish require about 48 hours for them to adapt to the new level of CO2. There is always some adjustment needed until their blood produces enough bicarbonate to neutralize the carbonic acid. Injection rate increase should always be done when you have the time all day to monitor the response.

I really wouldn't worry too much about red. People fret over red all day long and it's such wasted energy.
Were you aware that red and other colors are a result of a pigment production when the plants are subjected to light stress?
So instead of using the energy they have to grow, they have to divert the energy to production of the pigments, which is very expensive. The pigments fluoresce the excessive energy and in some ways is analogous to sunburn in humans.
The loss of red is actually a good thing as it is a visual indicator that the plant is no longer under light stress.

When the plants are healthy again and when CO2 and nutrition are excellent, the plants will once again produce other pigment types that are even more pleasing. Those pigments will be about the plant optimizing their use of the various wavelengths of light. You can also trigger various pigment response by changing the color of your bulbs. You'll be able to experiment with various color temperatures and after a few weeks. When CO2 is excellent, you will also be able to increase the Radion power and will trigger the same response without also triggering algae.

You really need to forget about red for now and focus on solving the injection/distribution puzzle for your tank.

The meter makes things easier, but you can slowly increase the injection rate a few bubbles at a time and monitor the fishes' response.

I need to review the previous posts to determine why the flow rate or distribution scheme is failing and what tweaks are needed.

Can you please post photos of your revised pump and filter output installation?
Also, please drop the water level to below the spraybar so we can see the spray pattern.
Can you re-state the amount and type of filter media?

Cheers,
 
Hi Anthony,
Mate, you mustn't get disheartened. In fact the results of your experimentation are actually quite revealing.
The fact that an injection rate increase improve performance confirms that the tank suffers CO2 shortfall. Of course we knew that all along but also, I assume that the pearling occurred while the two units were set to the 20% maximum? If so then this proves unequivocally that you do not need massive lighting to drive excellent health & growth. This is an exciting revelation man, be happy! :clap:

Yes indeed, the photoperiod is as above, the right hand unit has a 10 hour photoperiod, left hand unit a 6 hour photoperiod, both peaking at 20% intensity.

Would you call the growth healthy / excellent? I don't know. I still am noticing algae but I would say it's reduced somewhat.
So now we know that we have to work on gas dissolution and or flow/distribution.

I feel this is something that's under-appreciated by many in the hobby, with a lot, like me chasing peak PAR figues while not including CO2 output / water flow / CO2 distribution high up the list.

really wouldn't worry too much about red. People fret over red all day long and it's such wasted energy.
Were you aware that red and other colors are a result of a pigment production when the plants are subjected to light stress?
So instead of using the energy they have to grow, they have to divert the energy to production of the pigments, which is very expensive. The pigments fluoresce the excessive energy and in some ways is analogous to sunburn in humans.
The loss of red is actually a good thing as it is a visual indicator that the plant is no longer under light stress.

Very interesting information, thankyou, seems that it's a stress response to high PUR / PAR levels then?

I assume the red is something that can be worked on in the future as we get to grips with the basics first...

When the plants are healthy again and when CO2 and nutrition are excellent, the plants will once again produce other pigment types that are even more pleasing. Those pigments will be about the plant optimizing their use of the various wavelengths of light. You can also trigger various pigment response by changing the color of your bulbs. You'll be able to experiment with various color temperatures and after a few weeks. When CO2 is excellent, you will also be able to increase the Radion power and will trigger the same response without also triggering algae.

This seems very similar to reef tanks and corals then, when you acclimate them slowly to reduce the chance of bleaching and die back of zooxanthellae algae within the structures. Throttle back initially, optimise flow of nutrients via water flow then ramp up lights after everything else.

I'm really appreciating the help, i'm trying to learn as I progress in this hobby so I can not only learn and overcome issues while gaining knowledge - I can pass this on to others eventually

You really need to forget about red for now and focus on solving the injection/distribution puzzle for your tank.

It's odd as I feel that the flow / distribution os relatively good - though my plants are saying differently.

meter makes things easier, but you can slowly increase the injection rate a few bubbles at a time and monitor the fishes' response.

At the moment i'm at 6BPS (though as it turns out BPS is a misnomer and not the be all and end all to plant health / growth / vitality), i'll see how the fish are going forward.

I'm thinking of adding an air pump during the night time as I read it can promote beneficial bacteria populations due to increasing pH levels that have been supressed during the day due to CO2 injection?

I need to review the previous posts to determine why the flow rate or distribution scheme is failing and what tweaks are needed.

Can you please post photos of your revised pump and filter output installation?
Also, please drop the water level to below the spraybar so we can see the spray pattern.
Can you re-state the amount and type of filter media?

Cheers,

At the minute I have an Eheim professional 3 350 which has a supposes output of 1050 LPH.

I run the standard Eheim intake, along with a double spray bar (one is stock, one is shortened with bored out holes from a previous install). On the filter outlet is a CO2 atomiser, and there will be an inline external heater there also this week (reducing flow even further).

The spray bar is situated along the back of the tank, to the back left where there is a deadspot due to the sheperds crook / tubing, I have the Hydor powerhead here, as in level with the spray bar as I can manage

(Excuse the woeful photos)

Filter in situ :

26909574339_cae6ee2c4b_c.jpg
20171127_202253 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Outler tubing going to spraybar with atomiser :

26909563179_fdc3567749_c.jpg
20171127_202303 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Powerhead to far left, spraybar to centre and right, intake to far right :

38629145126_be931b7135_c.jpg
20171127_202234 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Here is a video of the spray pattern (the flow output looks VERY disappointing, see my footnote regarding this) :



Now regarding filter media, the Pro 3 comprises 4 'baskets' using a bypass filtration system.

Basket 4 contains Eheim 'mech pro' mechanical media - filter basket is 100% full. Link : https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/filter-media/mechanical/mechpro.

Basket 3 and 2 contain Eheim 'subtrat pro' biological media - filter baskets are both 95% full. Link : https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/filter-media/biological/substratpro

Basket 1 (top basket) contains a coarse blue filter sponge. 100% full.

I am considering upgrading the filter to the biggest Eheim classic - 1500XL with a flow rate of 2400 LPH; The reasons for this are three fold :

1) Much improved flow rate thus better in tank distribution. Also a much larger media capacity for a larger bacterial colony / media choices.

2) Classic design forcing water from top to bottom through ALL media rather than then more modern 'bypass' design, which, once clogged compromises media flow-through.

3) The pump is a self contained Eheim 1260 circulation pump which can be upgraded to the 1262 eventually rated at 3400 LPH.
 
Hi Anthony,
Boy, that video is kind of dark. I kept getting distracted by the programming on the tele. A gripping drama, no doubt, however, the beautiful brunette cannot offer us any advice.

So, a couple of things are going wrong, straight off the bat:
Firstly, when you gang the two spraybars together, there is a terrible pressure loss across the assembly, so the momentum coming out of the holes tend to be decreased.
This might not be so bad, but you are exacerbating the problem tremendously because of all the absurd filter media you have in the Pro 3.
There is no way you need that much filter media, especially those ridiculous noodles. They are killing your flow rate because they are designed specificall to reduce the flow rate. I would remove every single noodle and replace them with simple blue foam. I would estimate you have 200-300X more filter media surface area than you need. Those Efisubstratum or whatever are also killing your flow, but not quite as much as the noodles. have a read of https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/bio-media-for-fluval-305.29612/

I can see in the video at about the 15 second mark and on that the taller stems are swaying nicely but I'm unsure whether the cause is the turbulence from having a low water level. So my question is; do the plants sway like that when the water is at the normal level? If so, then you are not far away and it may be that a simple tweak of the injection rate will solve the problem. Whether that swaying occurs at the carpet level is another question. Try as I might, I could not tell if the very lowest plants were swaying. In any case, that's is the amount of swaying that all the plants should have.

I never really worry too much about the far corners. It may be that the powerhead is more useful if it is mounted centrally, just under the spraybar and helps the CO2 enriched water to travel to the front glass more easily.

There are as many possible configurations as there are hobbyists and tanks, so you should try different configurations and see which produces the fasted green/yellow DC color.

For sure though, you need to help your filter out. I guess as you mentioned, you intend to replace the filter, but if you do then I suggest you avoid making the same mistake of stuffing the chambers to the gills with OTT media.

I'm thinking of adding an air pump during the night time as I read it can promote beneficial bacteria populations due to increasing pH levels that have been supressed during the day due to CO2 injection?
That is a factor, but the main reason is simply that it helps with oxygenation which all tank inhabitants need, including the bacteria.

Cheers,
 
Hi Anthony,
Boy, that video is kind of dark. I kept getting distracted by the programming on the tele. A gripping drama, no doubt, however, the beautiful brunette cannot offer us any advice.

My apologies, it was right at the end of the light schedule so had to use ambient lighting.

Here is a video to hopefully demonstrate the flow better :




So, a couple of things are going wrong, straight off the bat:
Firstly, when you gang the two spraybars together, there is a terrible pressure loss across the assembly, so the momentum coming out of the holes tend to be decreased.
This might not be so bad, but you are exacerbating the problem tremendously because of all the absurd filter media you have in the Pro 3.
There is no way you need that much filter media, especially those ridiculous noodles. They are killing your flow rate because they are designed specificall to reduce the flow rate. I would remove every single noodle and replace them with simple blue foam. I would estimate you have 200-300X more filter media surface area than you need. Those Efisubstratum or whatever are also killing your flow, but not quite as much as the noodles. have a read of https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/bio-media-for-fluval-305.29612/

Would you recommend I just use the single spray bar for increased flow as opposed to a more even distribution? I've relocated the powerhead underneath the spraybar now.

I've also decreased the CO2 slightly more as I found a deceased rasbora which I fear is related to the increased CO2 levels.


I can see in the video at about the 15 second mark and on that the taller stems are swaying nicely but I'm unsure whether the cause is the turbulence from having a low water level. So my question is; do the plants sway like that when the water is at the normal level? If so, then you are not far away and it may be that a simple tweak of the injection rate will solve the problem. Whether that swaying occurs at the carpet level is another question. Try as I might, I could not tell if the very lowest plants were swaying. In any case, that's is the amount of swaying that all the plants should have.

Not all the plants sway the same, so this indicates that flow is not enough I feel, at least to distribute the CO2 / nutrients evenly. What's perplexing me is I feel my flow is at least 'adequate' due to the filter size / model and powerhead combo....

I never really worry too much about the far corners. It may be that the powerhead is more useful if it is mounted centrally, just under the spraybar and helps the CO2 enriched water to travel to the front glass more easily.

There are as many possible configurations as there are hobbyists and tanks, so you should try different configurations and see which produces the fasted green/yellow DC color.

For sure though, you need to help your filter out. I guess as you mentioned, you intend to replace the filter, but if you do then I suggest you avoid making the same mistake of stuffing the chambers to the gills with OTT media

That is a factor, but the main reason is simply that it helps with oxygenation which all tank inhabitants need, including the bacteria.

Cheers,

The powerhead has now been relocated centrally, directly underneath the spraybar to hopefully help with CO2 distribution.

Regarding filter media, i'll remove the mechanical media and run (top to bottom)

Blue filter spong
Blue filter sponge
Ehfi substrate
Ehfi substrate (or maybe another blue filter sponge if that will improve flow and not compromise the bacterial population too much?)

Noticed my sodastream canister (460 grams) is being used up rather quickly, so may have to upgrade to the 2kg regulator setup...

Many thanks for taking the time to keep replying and advising me. Can I ask how long you've been keeping planted aquariums?
 
Hi mate,
You're very welcome. Golly, I started with planted tanks in the late 80's early 90's. There was no youtube and few people had internet. We all thought nutrients caused algae, we trusted our nutrient test kit readings religiously and went through great pains to eliminate any source of NO3 from the tanks. The only thing that mitigated disaster was that most of us could only afford T8 bulbs.. When T5s became available pandemonium broke loose..

Noticed my sodastream canister (460 grams) is being used up rather quickly, so may have to upgrade to the 2kg regulator setup...
Yes, I don't think 1/2 kilo will typically go very far unless your configuration is super efficient. Most folks go for the 2Kg-5Kg bottles.

So, that was a much better video, thanks a lot for that, and I can see that the plants are indeed swaying quite nicely, even in the extreme corners. It appears that there is movement at the most difficult region, the carpet, as the hairgrass is swaying.

I think you will get even better movement when you remove the excessive amounts of media. As always with replacing filter media, gradually is better. I think you are well on your way.

It may not be necessary to use a single spraybar if you can unload the media. It is always worth a try just to see what effect it has on flow/distribution.

A shame about the rasbora. This is unfortunately the pitfalls of CO2. Are you supplementing with liquid carbon? This might help to keep a lower injection rate while you sort out the flow.

Cheers,
 
Many thanks for the reply - it's interesting reading how advancement in technology has both helped and hindered the progression of this hobby.

At least the flow is getting there now, i'll stick with the double spraybar setup and powerhead located centrally.

Yes i'm also dosing liquid carbon also.

In my attempt to remove the sodastream adaptor from my CO2 regulator, I broke the bubble counter / check valve. So until one's delivered I will have to run liquid carbon (easy carbo) for now.... should I reduce light intensity / photoperiod further? Also reduce ferts? Or keep things stable and just dose liquid CO2 in the meantime?

Many thanks
 
Ooops...bummer!

If there is no way to run the gas without the bubble counter and if there are no other check valves in the system I would just turn everything off if it'll be just a few days. So that would be kind of like a soft blackout. If we a re talking weeks before you can get the gas up and running then definitely take the light intensity down by half and daily dose or double dose the liquid carbon. Everything else can stay the same.

Cheers,
 
Ceg

Seems to be a comedy of errors from me right now..

Many thanks for the prompt response, i'll order one tomorrow but may be early next week by the time it arrives so

- I will either turn the lights off until then, no ferts, no carbon or lights
- Or can I use a regular airline check-valve for just a few days to keep some consistency going?

Many thanks
 
Hi Anthony,
Well, try test the air line check valve. I'm not really sure about the clearances in the valve and all that, but you can hook it up to a spare piece of tubing, put a few drops of water on the arrow point side and apply a little pressure to that side of the line, maybe blowing through it or sucking on it from the other side yourself and see if it passes any water against the arrow. If not then you'r good to go.

If you are diligent, and to make absolutely sure, you can always disconnect the line at the end of every day just to make sure not to ruin your regulator.

If you shut everything down for a week you'll be OK as well, use an airstone 24/7 for good aeration if you go that route. So I really wouldn't worry too much, you've a couple of options.

Cheers,
 
Hi Ceg - many thanks for the reply.

I've managed to source and install a bubble counter today, reattach my sodastream and install my new external heater. Running about 5bps at the minute.

Also ordered the pH pen and a 2kg co2 cylinder along with filter foam to reduce filter media and improve flow.

As a result I've resumed the previous low intensity photoperiod, ferts and liquid carbon regime.

One thing I am frustrated by is how my friends low tech self contained 20 litre fluval tank which has nothibg added bar liquid carbon and little maintenance manages to produce and sustain great colours while mines just a wall of green with my lights / equipment (with pretty much the same plants)....
 
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OK, glad you got it sorted.

As far as the other tanks I don't think they are using Radions as well, are they?
Also, 20L of water isn't much to have to push around.
As the tank size increases the difficulty rises exponentially.
I don't think you are considering the proper statistical sample size for comparison. Just have a browse through the Algae section of the forum and count the number of threads having exactly the same problem as you...

Cheers,
 
Thankyou, at least it's back online now.

No his setup is an intergrated rear filter chamber with a basic fluval 2.0 LED strip. I guess it's like comparing apples and oranges...

I'm just shocked at how quickly the plants have lost their 'colour' albeit still being green, however I have noticed the algae growth has slowed down....

So what next on this steep learning curve?
 
Yes, definitely apples to oranges.When plants (and even fish) are healthy then colors are strong but when unhealthy these are the first to be sacrificed, given the chance.
We'll have to see what the pH profile tells us and really, once the plants fatten up there will be a few more options. They will be more robust and will be able to deal with more stress. Weak plants are frail and cannot easily adapt to stress. They just hang on for dear life.

If you want to, you can play with the Radions' color palette and see if you can induce pigment changes that way.

Cheers,
 
Ceg,

Hopefully I can regain colouration eventually? Just a bit disheartened looking at looking at an all green tank that started out so colourful

Unfortunately the greens and reds are already maxed out, so I guess there's no way to regain the red colouration right now. The only intensities I can increase are the violet / royal blue / ultra blue.
 
It isn't necessarily the case that red light causes red pigments. It doesn't really work that way. Play with the color temperatures from say, 5500 and work your way up in 500K increments. You may find that you induce a more pleasing pigmentation when you move farther into the blue of if you add violet. There are a dozen or more different pigments and they can combine to have different visual effects. You may induce pigmentation that you did not expect, which may not be red, but may be pleasing nevertheless.

Colors come and go as a direct result of the health of the plants as well as a result of the conditions in the tank. Unless a plant is naturally red there is no real guarantee, and no one actually know exactly what combination of parameters results in what pigmentation, so I stopped worrying about it. As long as the plants are provided ample nutrition and good CO2, then the colors typically will be produced.

People use to (and some still do) chase red by starving the plants of Nitrogen so that the red pigments would show through the green chlorophyll. Sometimes they would get red followed later by Nitrogen deficiency syndromes.

As you yourself saw, under excessive lighting the plant did produce protective pigmentation, but what was the penalty? The plant was not healthy enough to resist the excessive amount of light, so ultimately the tank as a whole suffered. As I mentioned, when the tank is healthy they should be able to adapt to higher light stress by producing protective pigments without subsequently disintegrating.

Health first, then color.

Cheers,
 
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