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TDS PEN

i'll leave the guys above to explain it all better than i can but to cut to the point, your water should be more than fine for red cherry shrimp to live and breed in. It's very similar to my tank parameters after my very soft water has added calcium added
I like the simple answers haha. What do you add to your water for calcium mate?

Cheers Lee
 
Hi all,That would be my thought as well. It does both.

TDS
The ppm TDS value (really electrically conductivity) is a just measure of all the salts (ions) in solutions. What we call "water" isn't pure H2O, but a <"dilute solution with water as a solvent">.

Pure H2O is to all intents and purposes an electrical insulator, it doesn't conduct electricity. If you test DI water with a conductivity meter it will read less than 5 microS (3 ppm TDS), conversely sea water has a lot of salts (mainly salt NaCl, about 33 ppt.) and it is an efficient conductor of electricity, (it would have a conductivity of ~50,000 microS).

A lot of salts are highly soluble in water, including the ones we use a fertilisers. All plants, even terrestrial ones, can only take up nutrients as ions from solution.

Hardness
The assumption is that the hardness/dHG/dKH are the same, because they all relate to how much calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is dissolved in the water. One unit of dGH, and dKH, are both equal to 17.86 ppm CaCO3.

Limestone (calcium carbonate) isn't very soluble (technically it is only soluble in weak acids), but because rain water absorbs some CO2, it is a weak acid until it has dissolved some bases, almost always CaCO3 in the UK. The remaining, undissolved limestone, acts as a "buffer" that can go into solution and ensures that new rain water arriving becomes harder. This dissolution of limestone by rain-water is how you get caves, tufa springs and limestone pavement etc formed.

When water collects in limestone geology ("aquifers") it will become fully saturated with Ca and HCO3- ions, giving it a pH of pH8, a hardness of about 18dKH/dGH and a conductivity of 650 - 800 microS. If these values are higher you have other stronger bases present, if the aquifer values are lower there is some calcium carbonate present, but you might have very high rainfall, a very hard limestone (like the Carboniferous age limestone) or a sand-stone aquifer with only small amounts of CaCO3 present.

If your tap water doesn't have any carbonate buffering (dGH/dKH), and a low TDS value you can say that it has not encountered any limestone in its journey from rain-water to your tap. Because limestones are porous, upland reservoirs are almost always in non-calcareous rocks and these are the principle source of soft water in the UK.

cheers Darrel
Thanks Darrel for the replys. All this water chemistry blows my mind. You can look to far into it I suppose. What is carbonate buffering?

Cheers Lee
 
Calcium sulphate (CaSO4)

But you don't need to worry about adding that, the main things I learned with my first shrimp tank is they like stability and its when parameters swing around that you see deaths

Once you know nothing is killing them (ammonia, nitrite, copper etc...) just aim to keep things steady and stop making changes and just feed a good calcium supplement a couple of times a week, I've found they thrive and breed more when they're fed regularly rather than just surviving on algae etc....
 
Calcium sulphate (CaSO4)

But you don't need to worry about adding that, the main things I learned with my first shrimp tank is they like stability and its when parameters swing around that you see deaths

Once you know nothing is killing them (ammonia, nitrite, copper etc...) just aim to keep things steady and stop making changes and just feed a good calcium supplement a couple of times a week, I've found they thrive and breed more when they're fed regularly rather than just surviving on algae etc....
I appreciate everything every one has said on here. But I get mixed reports. Some saying my TDS and GH is to low for cherry shrimp.
I have had cherry shrimp since July last year lost a few at first then things went brilliant breeding like crazy from 10 shrimp I have now 150 or so. Then over the last couple of weeks I have lost about 15 shrimp. The only change I made was getting a pair of rams and wen I realised they was eating my shrimp I took them bk. Then did 1 big 80% water change and I have lost a few since that. I haven't messed with any water chemistry. So you are saying my TDS which is from the tap 155 and GH 6.5 is ok for my shrimp. Does kH matter because from what I have read it doesn't matter.

Cheers Lee
 
I feed my shrimp every day flake/ algae wafer/ tropical granules also. I'm going to try some knettle leaves what else is a good source of calcium. I have 2 big pieces of cuttle bone in the tank aswel.
 
Hi all,
What is carbonate buffering?
It is just the reserve of limestone. A buffered system is where you have a weak acid and a weak base that haven't gone fully into solution.

In this case there is a reservoir (the buffer) of undissolved CaCO3, as you add acid more calcium (Ca++) and bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions enter solution, and maintain the stable pH. The amount of calcium and bicarbonate ions that remain in solution is dependent upon the amount of CO2 in solution, so if you warm the water it can hold less gas and solid calcium carbonate "scale" is precipitated (like when you boil a kettle, or have a shower).

If you can add a strong base, like caustic soda (sodium hydroxide (NaOH)), this doesn't have any buffering effect, when you add it to water it all goes into solution as Na+ and OH- ions, these are both alkaline (bases), so the more you add the higher the pH will become and the more caustic the solution will become. Same would apply to a strong acid like hydrochloric acid (HCl) it will disassociate into H+ and Cl- ions, the pH will fall and it will keep falling.

If you add HCl to limestone it will "fizz" as the calcium carbonate is converted into CO2, H2O and CaCl.
I have 2 big pieces of cuttle bone in the tank aswel.
I don't think it is a calcium or hardness issue, basically if the new water was softer (more acid) it would just dissolve more cuttle bone (this is your carbonate buffer).

cheers Darrel
 
I appreciate everything every one has said on here. But I get mixed reports. Some saying my TDS and GH is to low for cherry shrimp.
I have had cherry shrimp since July last year lost a few at first then things went brilliant breeding like crazy from 10 shrimp I have now 150 or so. Then over the last couple of weeks I have lost about 15 shrimp. The only change I made was getting a pair of rams and wen I realised they was eating my shrimp I took them bk. Then did 1 big 80% water change and I have lost a few since that. I haven't messed with any water chemistry. So you are saying my TDS which is from the tap 155 and GH 6.5 is ok for my shrimp. Does kH matter because from what I have read it doesn't matter.

Cheers Lee

Your GH and TDS are both fine as they are and shouldn't be the reason your shrimp are dying, shrimp go through cycles and you'll occasionally get a few dying off, a lot of people understandably start changing things and see even more die off as a result, if your parameters have stayed the same and they've bred and thrived in it then keep it the same as that's what they've always known so will be accustomed to it

Don't go chasing numbers unless you know there is something definitely wrong and know exactly how to fix it
 
Shrimp king do a mineral food which is good
 
I appreciate everything every one has said on here. But I get mixed reports. Some saying my TDS and GH is to low for cherry shrimp.
I have had cherry shrimp since July last year lost a few at first then things went brilliant breeding like crazy from 10 shrimp I have now 150 or so. Then over the last couple of weeks I have lost about 15 shrimp. The only change I made was getting a pair of rams and wen I realised they was eating my shrimp I took them bk. Then did 1 big 80% water change and I have lost a few since that. I haven't messed with any water chemistry. So you are saying my TDS which is from the tap 155 and GH 6.5 is ok for my shrimp. Does kH matter because from what I have read it doesn't matter.

Cheers Lee
First off I would largely ignore TDS for the moment. GH6 should be ok for cherry shrimp and the fact they have already bred lots over a prolonged period of time shows it is fine. Most breeders seem to go for a GH of between 6 and 8 for cherries.

GH problems normally manifest themselves as molting problems and this would have put a big dent in your colony to start with and you would have noticed multiple deaths before now.


If you have had lots of unexplained deaths then this is almost certainly down to something else. It is possible the rams could have introduced something to the tank or you might have sprayed something on the vicinity of the tank? The other thing is that these could just be old age if you have had the shrimp for a while and they were quite large when you got them.

What is actually happening with the shrimp? Are you still seeing deaths? What is you water change schedule?
 
First off I would largely ignore TDS for the moment. GH6 should be ok for cherry shrimp and the fact they have already bred lots over a prolonged period of time shows it is fine. Most breeders seem to go for a GH of between 6 and 8 for cherries.

GH problems normally manifest themselves as molting problems and this would have put a big dent in your colony to start with and you would have noticed multiple deaths before now.


If you have had lots of unexplained deaths then this is almost certainly down to something else. It is possible the rams could have introduced something to the tank or you might have sprayed something on the vicinity of the tank? The other thing is that these could just be old age if you have had the shrimp for a while and they were quite large when you got them.

What is actually happening with the shrimp? Are you still seeing deaths? What is you water change schedule?
My water changing schedule is 50% every sat/sun. over the last 2 weeks I have suddenly lost about 15 shrimp some big some small. Out of the 15 I lost about 6 of them was to the rams before I took them bk. Since I took them bk about 8 days ago I have lost more shrimp 1 to 2 a day. 2 of the ones I lost had a white band across it's back. Not lost any for 3 days now. So hopefully things are settling down. I have 2 berried females aswel at the minuite. I am probably looking to much into it. But I've worked hard to get my colony the way it is and my tank looking as good as it is.
Cheers Lee
 
Shrimp king do a mineral food which is good
Thank you you have helped a lot and put my mind at rest. Also you make it sound simple aswel without all the science that I don't under stand haha. Wish I could understand it though.
 
It's taken me a year and every mistake under the sun including doing exactly what you are now to have a slight understanding of it all and I still probably only understand about 10% of it :) always learning

Its funny when I look back and read the advice given to me by some on here which I either didn't understand at the time or decided to not follow and it's all making sense where I went wrong now... Funny that eh lol!
 
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