• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

Something... Something... Shallow Tank

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
New 45F project:

1613672495192.jpeg


  • ADA 45F
  • Strideways Pro Co2 regulator
  • ONF Flat Nano
  • Eheim Ecco

  • Tropica soil
  • Black lava rock
  • Utricularia graminifolia
 

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
Still waiting on the plant delivery but put together a simple Iwagumi in the meantime:

1613725905818.jpeg


Got a larger, sturdier computer desk coming next week on account of everyone working at home, so also waiting on that to put the setup in final position. New desk has data/power cable port holes on the desktop. Will put the piping from the lily pipes and Co2 tubing straight down through the desk. Should look tidy.

Still on the fence regarding how to startup the UG, dry start or straight to submersed life. Either way will be doing a few water changes before planting.

Media is already matured sat in the AS600 sump so can go straight in the Eheim Ecco. Given the possible need for infusoria the rain barrel or water from an existing setup mixed in may be the way to go. Dosing will just be a potassium source daily.
 

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
Been thinking about why people fail with UG, albeit there aren’t many journals out there documenting their failures. More a case of folks personally saying that they tried it and it melted beautifully.

Whichever way this goes hoping this journal is useful to anyone else who fancies a go with Ultricularia graminifolia, not just a pretty picture parade.

Using plain old Tropica powder for this setup. Going to water change the water daily and float some plants first to shift ammonia out as much as possible. Then plant the UG.

Betting that aquarium soil is still a good bet as further down the line UG will need micronutrients, it seems the initial planting phase is the iffy bit.

Infusoria can be provided by rain barrel water or water changing with water from an existing tank. Lots of wildlife culture to be taken from a thimble of existing substrate too. If mixing water from an existing tank, the AS600 hard water setup is the oldest in the house and you can see wildlife scurrying around if you look closely at the substrate. A rough 50/50 mix with RO would put KH between 8-10, which I currently understand is pretty ideal for graminifolia. That figure is including the buffering of the aquarium soil. More importantly the water and existing substrate contain wildlife from a mature setup if the parameter changes aren’t too much for them.

The other thing I’ve noted when searching about is folks using small filters on nano tanks when trying to grow UG. To rule out filtration as a factor using an Eheim Ecco filter that effectively doubles the water volume of this setup with plenty of capacity, turnover and output for around tank flow.

Looking at other write up’s, it seems clear UG does not like ammonia by the way it reacts when planted into fresh aquarium soil, similar to MC and HC early on. People say it dies off but if you read the journals carefully, what they’re describing is the plant melting and lifting out of the substrate. Not a botanist but sounds like it is simply moving itself to another location - its off to a new home and the ammonia melt just made that possible. If it weren’t for our intervention of trying to shove it back down over and over would it not float away in the wild and probably grow elsewhere? Would make sense for an affixed subaquatic plant cut loose to explore its options given ammonia would be lethal to its food sources. Is this the difference in success between aquarium soil and inert substrate attempts? Inert favours the initial stage but soil is more useful long term?

Being an awkward sod I’m looking for the best of both worlds; micronutrient availability for further down the line but as much flushing of ammonia from the soil using water changes in the beginning, plus using floaters to mop up the water column.
 

Wookii

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
2,172
Location
Nottingham
I think the initial rush of high ammonia levels from the manufactured soils cause a lot of people with new startups issues with melting and algae, but it doesn’t seem to be widely acknowledged.

Given how much plant mass I lost on my current tank during the first few weeks, despite 80%+ daily water changes and them almost all being established submerged plants, I think I’ll always run a 1-2 week dark start before planting in aquarium soil going forward, just to avoid that initial ammonia.
 
Last edited:

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
and them almost all being establish submerged plants

Aye, even this won’t save you at startup. Think you know my policy on the first 28 days @Wookii hardly been subtle about it.

Not sure if you have seen this but might be of interest. Mentions in the video about Ultricularia not liking nitrates

Haven’t actually watched this yet @Paul27 thanks for sharing 👍🏽
 

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
12,329
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
that aquarium soil is still a good bet further down the line UG will need micronutrients, it seems the initial planting phase is the iffy bit.
I grew for a <"while emersed and it did quite well">. I've never tried it in a tank, and I think it was cold that killed it in the end.

As a plant it doesn't <"actually have any roots"> (no Utricularia spp. does), so I guess the planting medium doesn't matter that much.

Other than Utricularia gibba the ones I've tried in the tanks have all been <"boom and bust">.

cheers Darrel
 

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
Thank you for the links Darrel. Will look into what the stolons fully perform for graminifolia before getting presumptuous.

Very much looking to experience this plant, success or failure is fine either way. Due to a 45F being a bad substitute for a marshy environment with limited food sources, going to go fully submersed from the get go given the humidity of the in vitro pots. Almost tempted to put it in a 10l cube with rainwater in the garden this summer, half in/out of the water and see what it does.
 

Tim Harrison

Administrator
UKAPS Team
Joined
5 Nov 2011
Messages
8,627
Location
UK
Looking at other write up’s, it seems clear UG does not like ammonia by the way it reacts when planted into fresh aquarium soil, similar to MC and HC early on.
I think that's definitely a factor. I've failed spectacularly trying to grow a UG carpet in fresh AS. It didn't detach though, just melted.

I introduced it to a more mature setup and it grew well emersed, and then spread and grew immersed. It's a fascinating little plant.

1613752267530.png
 

Geoffrey Rea

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Thread starter
Joined
27 May 2017
Messages
1,352
Location
Cambridgeshire
One week dark start with matured filter media before planting.

1614508333516.jpeg


  • 8 hours light from the ONF Flat Nano at 50%
  • Co2 on all day
  • Water 1KH 5GH remineralised RODI water with a couple of litres from a matured setup with the same parameters
  • Daily potassium

1614508355104.jpeg


See how the UG gets on.

1614508878782.jpeg


Deviated from the original plan somewhat but at least this gives a standard with water parameters.
 

Garuf

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2007
Messages
5,030
Location
Copenhagen
Nice start and good luck.

Mr. Wong over on 2hr planted tank has u.g. failure down to lack of maturity and hyper ammonia sensitivity of the plant, "old" soil and a mature filter seem to be key.

That said, I've tried to grow the stuff, 12 times? tried.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Scouseboyblue Trying something different Journals 1
PM 80x35x20 Shallow (plant advice needed) Journals 12
nayr88 Shallow Nano Journals 5

Similar threads

Top