Secret garden - my first aquascape

[Saman]

Hi there, I started my first proper aquascape about one month ago. I'm a bit late creating this journal but better late than never. The idea was based very much around a secret garden with a feeling of being over-grown and whimsical.

Details are as follows:

70 litre Dennerle Scapers tank
Eheim Ecco Pro 130
Co2 art inline diffuser
Twinstar 450 SA
ProdiBio Aquagrowth aquarium soil
Tropica aquarium soil
Plants are -
Monte Carlo
Pogostemon Helferi
Anubias nana bonsai
Bucephalandra red
Hydrocotyle tripartita japan
Rotala Vietnam H'ra
Ludwigia mini super red
Microsorum pteropus trident
Hydrocotyle verticillata

Fertiliser - 4 mils a day of Evolution Aqua complete fertiliser


About one week ago I swapped to 3/4 RO water 1/4 tap water and I really feel growth has slowed. I also can't get the monte carlo to grow at the back or the right side but I suspect that's because of the hydrocotyle tripartita is blocking light at the back and it's too cramped at the side. I'm not convinced the Co2 is quite right either - I thought it was green for a good few weeks only to discover it was yellow when I yanked the drop checker out of the tank and placed it against a white wall! It's now most definitely green but maybe too dark. There is brown algae and a little green but the nitrates are very high so I'm hoping this will go once everything calms down. The H'ra - which you can't see - is at the back and not turning red - but again I suspect this is because of the high nitrate. I have the light on for 7 hours at 80% intensity. I was going to move to 8 hours at 100% but the algae has been worrying me. Be great to hear what you all think - particularly about the light schedule and intensity, and the type of fertiliser.

 

[John q]

Hi, Scape looks really nice, definitely got that "whimsical" feel to it.

The tanks still relatively young so instead of blasting it at 100% for 8hrs why not increase the duration up to 8hrs, but lower the intensity to 60~70%, you can always increase it later once the algae issues get resolved.
Don't know much about that fertiliser but it seems to have decent reviews, would be much cheaper to go the DIY route and mix your own, but I'm guessing you already know that. 😉

 

[PARAGUAY]

Nice looking planted tank🙂

 

[Saman]

Thank you - I increased the light to 80% over a month from 50%. I might reduce back a bit then.

 

[Saman]

Yes I’ll try DIY fertiliser route - I’m going through this bottle so fast and it’s not cheap.

 

[RPackman]

It is lovely! Definitely whimsical

 

[Saman]

It's been a while since I posted in my journal so here's the tank as it looks today. I've been having issues with brown leaves and algae (every type) and my Ludwigia super red just gave up after looking stunning in the first few months. I'm trying to figure out the issues with the help of brilliant people here. Given the shade on the front right I'm struggling to get the monte carlo to grow up there so it looks a little odd.

 

[Saman]

Oh and this kept happening thanks to my scarlet badis's weird habit of wanting to get under the carpet !! I've now put more twigs down to hold it in place and all good for the past few weeks.

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

I'm trying to figure out the issues with the help of brilliant people here.

Any chance of an aerial/top down photo @Saman ?

 

[Saman]

Yes of course - here's a few photos. The specific issues are -

The Hydrocotyle tripartita japan gets green slimey algae being so near the light
The H'ra has brown spots on its leave and is only just turning a pale pink as my nitrate was so high
The Ludwigia super red succumbed to black hair algae and its leaves went yellow
The Hydrocotyle verticillata is generally okay but some has a little brown algae
The trident fern keeps getting bits of black hair algae and isn't really growing

Basically, apart from the monte carlo, bucephalandra and anubias , nothing is thriving. No idea why the monte carlo is doing well given it gets dugs up every few weeks!

At the moment I'm trying to get the CO2 right (I think it was too low and is now too high...) and I am going to swap to DIY EI fertiliser. The H'ra at the back don't sway so I'm suspecting the flow isn't right there but I'm not sure what to do in such a small tank. I can't change the position of the Lilly pipe really and the filter is big enough for the tank.

Current light schedule is 7.5 hrs on and I'm dosing 3 mils of evolution aqua ferts daily (due to change this).

Thanks for any help and insight! I think I took my eye off the ball after such an easy start.

 

[Gill]

Oh and this kept happening thanks to my scarlet badis's weird habit of wanting to get under the carpet !! I've now put more twigs down to hold it in place and all good for the past few weeks.

Yeah they do that, They like to find a spot to heard prey. whenever I have kept them with shrimp, they always heard them into a corner to keep them where they can find them easily.
Mine are currently making a pit underneath the Marsilea Carpet.

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Flow and distribution…

Basically, apart from the monte carlo, bucephalandra and anubias , nothing is thriving.

The in-line diffuser is pouring Co2 mist out of the lily pipe and being driven across then down onto the Monte Carlo. It’s happy as it is attended to. Buce and anubias are lower demand.

I am going to swap to DIY EI fertiliser

Good. More control.

About one week ago I swapped to 3/4 RO water 1/4 tap water and I really feel growth has slowed.

Why not go the whole way and remineralise your RO to a desired target. Yet more control.

Scarlet badis like middle of the road parameters if not mistaken. Someone will correct this if it’s not true. However, all your plant species will be fine with it. Check out this site for more info on custom remineralisation:

James' Planted Tank - Re-mineralising RO Water

Back to flow and distribution, have you tried using a spraybar yet?

 

[Saman]

Thank you, I suspected this...

I remineralise my other tank so can certainly do it with this one. I was trying to cut my work - by using tap it's quicker as I can heat the RO with hot water and not wait for a heater to do it.

I haven't tried a spray bar but it absolutely makes sense. Would I position it along the back wall and keep the inlet pipe where it is at the front on the right? I've read on here you have to be precise with the angle and positioning. What would you recommend?

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

I remineralise my other tank so can certainly do it with this one. I was trying to cut my work - by using tap it's quicker as I can heat the RO with hot water and not wait for a heater to do it.

Given you’re already creating 3/4 RO it uncomplicates things if you just go all the way. Between controlling the incoming water and DIY’ing your ferts you can operate with a greater degree of certainty with parameters, especially if EI dosing.

I haven't tried a spray bar but it absolutely makes sense. Would I position it along the back wall and keep the inlet pipe where it is at the front on the right? I've read on here you have to be precise with the angle and positioning. What would you recommend?

Along the back wall yes, aimed horizontally and placed under the surface just enough to create the desired amount of surface agitation. You have room to fill the tank up further and it would require keeping things trimmed to minimise any impediment to flow.

The benefits include superior gas exchange to your current situation, even flow from back to front then down and back, the spraybar also draws water up towards it through your plants and improves distribution.

Can see from your photos that the right side of the tank is the only option for pipes. If at all possible placing the inlet in the back right corner would be perfect. Your skimmer can go on the back wall with the spraybar also to also draw flow up then forwards to the front of the tank:

One bonus is the front of your scape will be free of equipment too 😎

 

[Saman]

Great thank you, I'll get a spraybar then - would this work? - Ista Glass Spraybar Set

Sorry with the angle of the holes, you are saying just facing the front of the tank - not angled up or down? Yes I'll have to fill the tank high to make sure the Hydrocotyle tripartita japan doesn't mess with the flow.

With the skimmer, I stopped using it after it sucked two fish in and killed them (my paskai rainbowfish so I was gutted!!) - along with trapping three shrimp pretty much the first day/night I had it on. It's the Eheim Skim 350. Do you think it's important to have one and on 24/7? Maybe there's a safer one?

In terms of placement, that back wall is covered in h'ra - they are planted either side - so I'd be cutting them down and/or taking some out to put the skimmer there. If the inlet goes in the back right corner it would be behind all the h'ra again unless I took a section of them out.


Thanks again!

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Great thank you, I'll get a spraybar then - would this work? - Ista Glass Spraybar Set

It could. If memory serves correctly the spraybar sticks out 30cm. The dimensions of your Dennerle 70l:

The additional 20cm could accommodate a skimmer if you want to. If you feed fish well it’s a nice to have. Low stock planted tanks really don’t need them once they’re running smoothly.

With the skimmer, I stopped using it after it sucked two fish in and killed them (my paskai rainbowfish so I was gutted!!) - along with trapping three shrimp pretty much the first day/night I had it on. It's the Eheim Skim 350. Do you think it's important to have one and on 24/7? Maybe there's a safer one?

Mesh works:

Just roll it up and pop it in the skimmer:

Can post this mesh to you if you want. Just send an address over.

If you do add your skim back it will cover the back left corner. Flow out of your spraybar will come out at an angle:

The water is being pumped in from the right so will leave the holes in the spraybar towards the left.

Get the impression you wish to preserve aesthetics so are heading towards glassware. The alternative is getting the ISTA and if you don’t want to use a skimmer, asking around for a couple of Oase spraybar’s which are clear and can attach to the ISTA jet. You can then cut and custom a spraybar to cover the full 50cm width.

Sorry with the angle of the holes, you are saying just facing the front of the tank - not angled up or down?

It really is a case of having a play about. Filter outputs and pipe dimensions play a role, but starting horizontal and moving up and down will get you a degree of control. The main thing is ensuring you’re getting the desired surface agitation, direction of output and Co2 preservation. Obviously pointing a spraybar at the surface with Co2 injection is counterproductive so horizontal is a good place to start.

In terms of placement, that back wall is covered in h'ra - they are planted either side - so I'd be cutting them down and/or taking some out to put the skimmer there. If the inlet goes in the back right corner it would be behind all the h'ra again unless I took a section of them out.

Blau do inlets where the intake slits are outward rather than inward facing. Personally just cut a few stems around the inlet slits at the base and it works. Drawing flow through the H’ra is only a plus. The draw from the inlet gets less intense just a cm or two away so you should be alright.

 

[Saman]

@Geoffrey Rea this is SO helpful, I really appreciate it.

I've just worked out that if I position the skimmer on the left the plug won't reach the socket on the floor - so if you think just the spraybar will still work well I'll try and get a longer spray bar (but thank you very much for the offer of mesh).

I think keeping to glass and the tube clear would be good - I do have a bright green Eheim one from a tank I had a few years back but it will look a bit odd.

Is it common for the Lilly pipe not to distribute CO2 effectively in a small tank such as this or is it more to do with the specific layout and planting of this tank? I ask this as I'm due to rescape and upgrade my other small tank to CO2 this year and can go straight in with a spraybar if it's preferable - it currently has a Lilly pipe.

I'll cut the stems by the inlet pipe so hopefully that will be fine - and I'll start horizontal with the spraybar.

I guess once I correct the flow, distribution & CO2 level I can add some new Ludwigia super red to provide some contrast. It's interesting that this plant failed of all of them - I kept it in my non CO2 tank for some time with no problem until it got outcompeted for light by some crazy water sprite!

Thanks again for your insight & help.

 

[Saman]

Sorry - is this the bar (it comes in three sizes but I guess I take the 600 for length?) and attach it to the glassware with some clear tubing all at 12mm - Replacement Tube Pre-filter - BioMaster 600

 

[bazz]

Sorry - is this the bar (it comes in three sizes but I guess I take the 600 for length?) and attach it to the glassware with some clear tubing all at 12mm - Replacement Tube Pre-filter - BioMaster 600

Hi,
This is not the spray bar but the the replacement pre filter (sponge) tube, what I imagine you are looking for is this Replacement Spraybar External Filter 1 Pc
Cheers!

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

I think keeping to glass and the tube clear would be good - I do have a bright green Eheim one from a tank I had a few years back but it will look a bit odd.

Could use this in the interim until you get the clear sorted. Eheim black spraybars against a black background also work at hiding themselves pretty decently.

Is it common for the Lilly pipe not to distribute CO2 effectively in a small tank such as this or is it more to do with the specific layout and planting of this tank? I ask this as I'm due to rescape and upgrade my other small tank to CO2 this year and can go straight in with a spraybar if it's preferable - it currently has a Lilly pipe.

You know, this is a really great question. Hope you don’t mind the detour but can sort of cover all your questions at a larger scale.

Depends on how you deploy your nutrition.

Lily pipes across the whole ADA gallery, low turnover, minimal surface agitation, low Co2 injection compared to EI.

EI dosed tanks, spraybar for even distribution/flow, high turnover, higher Co2 injection compared with ADA dosing regime.

ADA use Powersand with lots of phosphate that leaches and gets absorbed by the aquarium soil above it, which incidentally is extremely rich, particularly in nitrate. Your nitrate and phosphate is soil located and omitted from the water column, plants can attain what they need from the substrate as those nutrients are mobile. Just daily potassium and micros with growth hormone in the water column. This ‘lean’ regime (although it isn’t really) puts less demand on Co2 and is more forgiving on distribution as N and P are sort of.. in the bank within your substrate. Plants make withdrawals from their roots.

EI is a Swiss Army knife. It works with inert substrate or even no substrate at all, you can use it with rich substrate as well. It does however demand perfect Co2 management to work to meet the demand of all the growth with EI levels of N and P in the water column. It also requires X amount of water changed regularly to keep the ‘estimative’ part of dosing legitimate. Flow and distribution become amplified in their importance as the tank is running hungry. Not changing water may skew your estimates of N and P in the water column = Co2 demand changes. It’s why regular water changes and Co2 management are the work horses of EI. You’re down to being in a prescribed routine; dose EI macro and micro on alternate days, pay attention to Co2, do those water changes. Simple.

Back to your question… can you see why lily pipes are suitable for ADA style of nutrient deployment? The demands of flow and distribution are lesser compared to an EI style of nutrient deployment. Lily pipes just get used regardless by everyone, but they’re a tool more suited to ADA’s style. Spraybar’s are superior with EI dosing as you are relying more heavily on the water column as a mechanism of deployment, along with higher demands. Peeps control this by turning their lights down. Brings control down to one variable: light. Makes good sense.

Regardless, water moving through your plants everywhere is a good goal. It has no downsides and we can use the push of a lily/spraybar and the pull of an inlet to achieve this.

I know this is long winded @Saman but considering this is your first aquascape would deem it useful to know how equipment, dosing and scape design all interact in forming your outcome. Hope the above is useful.

Sorry - is this the bar (it comes in three sizes but I guess I take the 600 for length?) and attach it to the glassware with some clear tubing all at 12mm - Replacement Tube Pre-filter - BioMaster 600

@bazz has your answer above.