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RO Water, Remineralizers and pH

The 2hr aquarist doesn't 'recommend' a pH of 6 to 7 as a target for plants, that is just the result from a low (2-6) KH and CO2 injection that he does recommend. Far and away the overriding message from that article is that pH doesn't matter, but KH matters in some cases.
Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

You are absolutely correct and I chose my words badly. In my head, I was very clear what The 2HR Aquarist was saying. His message was as clear as a bell. Quite how my brain managed to mangle it, I don't know. Well, I do really - but I'm not going there! Anyway, thanks for correcting me.

As mentioned before, the acidification of the growing medium for a commercial outfit will be to prevent some micro elements, such as iron, from becoming unavailable not because the plants specifically need an acid pH in order to grow - that is what Christel is referencing.

You may well be right. I'm just seeking clarification. If @Christel finds time, I look forward to hearing what she has to say.

JPC
 
Thanks, Darrel (@dw1305)

I realize that this will no doubt appear to be a silly question but would you mind - off the top of your head - listing what you consider to be the "most popular plants"? This is not a trick question - I'm openly declaring that I do not know the answer to this question.
That is going to be a big list lol.
Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

And, yet, the loud-and-clear message on A N Other reputable forum places a lot of importance specifically on water pH. I realize that it would be easy to say - well, they've got it wrong. And, the 2HR Aquarist recommends a pH range from 6 to 7. Furthermore, @Christel recently said "The emersed plants are in a heavily fertilized nutrient solution (I once measured over 1000 µS/cm a few years ago). The pH will be acid so that the nutrients can be absorbed". Please see:


So, I'm confused.

JPC

I don't think that PH is all that important, and lots of sources are going to have different values depending on what they believe.

As Wooki has pointed out, soft water does not necessarily mean low PH, if you take my tap water as an example, it has a TDS of 70 and a KH and GH of 1, this would be classed as very soft, but high PH at >8

I have had no problems with any plants that I could put down to the high PH of my tap water.
 
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Hi all,
as an example, it has a TDS of 70 and a KH and GH of 1, this would be classed as very soft, but high PH.
A lot of people have soft, alkaline water now. This is because of the addition of sodium hydroxide (NaOH). Sodium hydroxide is a <"strong base">.
I realize that this will no doubt appear to be a silly question but would you mind - off the top of your head - listing what you consider to be the "most popular plants"?
Probably those in the <"Tropica Easy"> category.

cheers Darrel
 
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You can link to and name other forum sources John, there's no rule against it on UKAPS.
Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

OK, I got this confirmed by @LondonDragon - thanks, Paulo.

I therefore suggest that you may want to take a look at the following:


I wonder who the user, Anon is! Pretty obvious really. 😉

Anyway, please take a look at what is being said. I look forward to yours and anyone else's comments.

JPC
 
Hi Folks,

For those people who use RO water + remineralizers, what resulting water pH do you get?

I just hope that I'm not the only one who uses RO water!

Any and all feedback very welcome!

JPC
Use gH/kH to measure the water rather than pH. gh 5 and kh 2 would do you nicely.
 
Probably those in the <"Tropica Easy"> category.
Being low-tech myself, the plants in the "easy" category are exclusively the ones I am sticking to - with good success thus far and there are actually a lot of nice options.
I think Tropica mostly categorize plants in the "medium" and "advance" category as being medium to high on especially CO2 demand, but also specific demands on such as water softness - those are rare anyway at LFS in my area at least.

Cheers,
Michael
 
When i use HYDRO 0/5 mineralizer keep this one water parameters
-GH/5
-KH/0-1
-MG/8
-CA/28
-K/ WITCH IS VERY IMPORTANT! 12/15PPM
-N/VERY LOW
-PO4/VERY LOW
-MICRO FROM AQUA REBELL-FLOW ROW
-ALL ON ACTIVE SUBSTRATE LIKE TROPICA SOIL+TROPICA CAPSULES+SOME SEACHEM MATRIX ON BOTHOM+ CO2+ GOOD LIGHT
 
When i use HYDRO 0/5 mineralizer keep this one water parameters
-GH/5
-KH/0-1
-MG/8
-CA/28
-K/ WITCH IS VERY IMPORTANT! 12/15PPM
-N/VERY LOW
-PO4/VERY LOW
-MICRO FROM AQUA REBELL-FLOW ROW
-ALL ON ACTIVE SUBSTRATE LIKE TROPICA SOIL+TROPICA CAPSULES+SOME SEACHEM MATRIX ON BOTHOM+ CO2+ GOOD LIGHT

What is your water change schedule Roland?
 
When i use HYDRO 0/5 mineralizer
Just did a clone for product on IFC Calculator, can be tweaked to suit any tank size
1617013487502.png
 
When i use HYDRO 0/5 mineralizer keep this one water parameters
-GH/5
-KH/0-1
-MG/8
-CA/28
-K/ WITCH IS VERY IMPORTANT! 12/15PPM
-N/VERY LOW
-PO4/VERY LOW
-MICRO FROM AQUA REBELL-FLOW ROW
-ALL ON ACTIVE SUBSTRATE LIKE TROPICA SOIL+TROPICA CAPSULES+SOME SEACHEM MATRIX ON BOTHOM+ CO2+ GOOD LIGHT

Also when you say 'very low' for N and P, what ppm are you dosing approximately per week? (Sorry to keep asking you questions, but given the exceptional clean and vibrant growth you achieve in your tanks, you have clearly achieved some optimum dosing).
 
Ok, no problem, I doses fertilizers every day, except for the day I change the water, but after the water change I have 0ppm N and 0 ppm PO4 in the water, so I dose the fertilizers to get 5ppm / N 0.20ppm po4 and 15ppm k. The next days I dose the fertilizers low. 1/2 PPM N, 0.10ppm po4 and potassium gives 2 ppm in the middle of the week + micro producer dose the same every day. The rest of the fertilizer is given by the active substrate, so I can afford to fertilize low or even very low.A good way is to zero the water, replace 80 percent of the water with water + mineralizer and add NPK. It is then easier to calculate because I have almost 0 NPK in the water.In the event of algae occurrence, resetting the water also gives very good results
 
Hi, Sorry for my late response.
The aim in nurseries is to offer the plants as many nutrients as possible in sufficient quantities - a nutrient solution, so to speak, in which the plants grow with their roots. Each species absorbs the nutrients it needs in a species-specific manner - for example, one species needs more iron than another. Provided that the nutrient solution contains sufficient iron. But a generally high nutrient supply also means a high conductivity, which can be measured.
One of the most important plant nutrients, however, is carbon dioxide. At an acidic pH, free CO2 is predominantly present. At an alkaline pH, little or no carbon dioxide is present. Most plants stop growing at an alkaline pH. Only a few species can assimilate the hydrogen carbonate ions and get the C, the carbon as an important plant nutrient, from it. This is the main reason why CO2 fertilization is important. Of course, you can also get the carbon into the water by feeding the fish heavily. In nature, most of our aquarium plants live in soft, acidic water! This includes - even if Diana Walstad writes otherwise - almost all Echinodorus species. I have been at so many natural Echinodorus habitats, that I have a very good overview. And I measured always! Only a very few Echinodorus-species I have found in weakly alkaline water, such as E. uruguayensis. In addition, many plants are adaptable to water chemistry within certain limits, but many species are not, e.g. Tonina fluviatilis, which is an indicator plant of very acidic waters at pH values below 6. This plant cannot grow in hard, alkaline water; it is the same with Syngonanthus, many Eriocaulon and other species. But the pH and the carbon as an important plant nutrient is only one aspect of plant nutrition.
I hope it is clearer now.
 
Most plants stop growing at an alkaline pH. Only a few species can assimilate the hydrogen carbonate ions and get the C, the carbon as an important plant nutrient, from it. This is the main reason why CO2 fertilization is important.
Hi @Christel

Many thanks for your valued reply.

So, the injection of CO2 has a dual role:

[1] Provide carbon

[2] Acidify the water

Whilst there is much talk about the first of these, there appears to be less emphasis placed on the latter of these two factors. For myself, I've long been aware that CO2 injection lowered pH but only very recently was I beginning to suspect that I may be overlooking something.

Thanks again.

JPC
 
In nature, most of our aquarium plants live in soft, acidic water! This includes - even if Diana Walstad writes otherwise - almost all Echinodorus species.
Hi @Christel

Thank you for this clarification.

So, we ought to measure tank water pH every day at around midday, for example - regardless of whether or not we are injecting CO2. Would you agree with this and what range of pH values should we aim for?

JPC
 
Really pleased I’ve found this thread as I’m interested in this area too. I use 100% RO and remin with JBL aquadur to get a kh of 2 and gh of 4. My ph goes from 6.8 to 7.6 (morning to evening) but I really want to try and keep it in the 6-7 range for the type of fish I keep. I’m considering just using equilibrium for gh and/or putting botanicals in the tank.
 
Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS.
I use 100% RO and remin with JBL aquadur to get a kh of 2 and gh of 4.........and keep it in the 6-7 range for the type of fish I keep
If you want to keep the pH lower you can use a mix that doesn't add any dKH. As soon as you add carbonate buffering the pH will rise to ~pH8, due to the <"carbonate ~ CO2 ~ pH equilibrium">.

When you reduce that pH (by adding an acid) all that happens is that bicarbonate ion (HCO3-) buffer is converted to CO2. The only time this isn't true is when you add CO2, in which case the pH drop is caused by the extra carbonic acid (H2CO3-) which disassociates into a proton ( H+ ion) and a bicarbonate ion (HCO3-). Acids are defined as <"proton donors"> and the pH drops.

You can really easily DIY a mix (that just gives dGH) from "Epsom Salts" (MgSO4.7H20) and calcium chloride (CaCl2.2H2O). The workings are at <"James' Planted Tank"> and both salts are widely available via ebay etc.
I’m considering just using equilibrium for gh and/or putting botanicals in the tank.
Yes, that should work. I'm a great fan of adding some <"humic substances">. You've still got time to pyo your <"own leaves and Alder cones">.
My ph goes from 6.8 to 7.6 (morning to evening)
Assuming that you don't add CO2? This is just because of changes in the oxygen : CO2 ratio. There is a more complete explanation in <"TDS and remineralising ro water">. You can't really have pH stability in very soft water, it is always going to be <"a movable feast">.

cheers Darrel
 
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