Reef Tank Controller for Freshwater

[McCarthy]

I'm in the process of building my high tech Iwagumi tank (link) and want to add a controller with the following functions:

1.) Temperature probe: cuts off the heater and light if it fails in the on position, turns on chiller above set temperature.

2.) Auto top-off system with 2 sensors.

3.) Programmable feeder, which turns of the canister filter when feeding,

4.) Programmable module that turns CO2 on or off based on PH probe, and based on timer (off at night). I have a Milwaukee controller but would prefer all from same brand.

5.) Alarms should be send via text / email / app to cell phone.

6.) App for remote monitoring and access would be nice.

Did anybody try one of the reef tank controllers (Neptune Apex, Digital Aquatics ReefKeeper, etc.) in a fresh water setup? Any suggestions?

 

[ian_m]

Use a PLC.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/

 

[McCarthy]

Use a PLC.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/

Bought.

You hooked me with "industrial" grade quality and the RO top-off / WC option but sealed it with the Excel export update, which alone triggered a bunch of options in my head.

I thought about developing something on an Arduino board but that PLC from Siemens and all those modules are spot on.

Thanks for waking the designer and coder in me. Did I mention that I used to work for Siemens back in Germany?

Awesome write-up!

 

[ian_m]

Talk to Zeus as he is using a Siemens Logo PLC controlling his 500l tank.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/olympus-500l-is-calling.43046/

His is bigger than mine rolleyes as he has analogue outputs to control intensity and spectrum of his Kessils and analogue input for temperature and pH.

If you need any help then ask us.

You could ask Zeus (as message starter) if you could join the private messages we have had about PLC control and wiring and PLC pictures and juicy PLC coding snippets.

And here is a light control timer, lights on at 16:00 off at 22:00 I just knocked up now whilst replying to this message...

The select Tools -> Transfer -> PC -> Logo to upload this program to my PLC. (actually works over VPN to home from my work).

Done.

Here it is at home right now. Run time 7413 hours and 14days 1hour since water change...currently in holiday mode as having a couple of busy weeks at home (shower fitting) and not getting time to do water change.

Appetite wetted. Done.....

 

[McCarthy]

Talk to Zeus as he is using a Siemens Logo PLC controlling his 500l tank.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/olympus-500l-is-calling.43046/

His is bigger than mine rolleyes as he has analogue outputs to control intensity and spectrum of his Kessils and analogue input for temperature and pH.

If you need any help then ask us.

You could ask Zeus (as message starter) if you could join the private messages we have had about PLC control and wiring and PLC pictures and juicy PLC coding snippets.

And here is a light control timer, lights on at 16:00 off at 22:00 I just knocked up now whilst replying to this message...
View attachment 105524

The select Tools -> Transfer -> PC -> Logo to upload this program to my PLC. (actually works over VPN to home from my work).
View attachment 105526

Done.

Here it is at home right now. Run time 7413 hours and 14days 1hour since water change...currently in holiday mode as having a couple of busy weeks at home (shower fitting) and not getting time to do water change.
View attachment 105527

Appetite wetted. Done.....

Talking about the lights I have a Giesemann Pulzar unit with Bluetooth controller. They do have a decent PC software and app. The controller is digital, not analog, so I guess this will be the only item not being controlled by the Siemens.

I'm about to place the order. You wrote "If you are "going advanced" you will need the full version of Siemens PLC development software Logo!8 Soft Comfort."

Is the software in the Starter Kit not the full version?

 

[ian_m]

Is the software in the Starter Kit not the full version?

Yes the Logo!Soft Comfort software in the starter kit is the full software version that allows downloading on programs to the PLC. You can't download to PLC (or save to SD card) using the evaluation software.

Latest software version is V8.1, if kit has V8.0 in it you can just upgrade. Also needs Java installed. It is one of the best most reliable Java programs I have used.

Just make sure you get the right starter kit. I used the 230V starter kit, Zeus used the slightly more expensive, as it includes a power supply, 24V starter kit.

Of course you don't need to buy the starter kit you could just buy the development software and PLC separately. If you do, you don't get a nice carry case, posh Siemens screwdriver, snazzy Siemens Ethernet lead and a copy of WinCC. WinCC is for developing graphical front ends for Siemens LCD touch panels.

230V starter kit.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/logic-modules/8384889/
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/...0AA8-115-Vac-115-Vdc-230-Vac-230-Vdc?ref=list

230V Logo!8
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/logic-modules/8251641/

Logo!Soft Comfort
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plc-programming-software/8251704/

You might be able to find cheaper. I got my starter kit from Conrad Germany for £160.

 

[McCarthy]

Yes the Logo!Soft Comfort software in the starter kit is the full software version that allows downloading on programs to the PLC. You can't download to PLC (or save to SD card) using the evaluation software.

Latest software version is V8.1, if kit has V8.0 in it you can just upgrade. Also needs Java installed. It is one of the best most reliable Java programs I have used.

Just make sure you get the right starter kit. I used the 230V starter kit, Zeus used the slightly more expensive, as it includes a power supply, 24V starter kit.

Of course you don't need to buy the starter kit you could just buy the development software and PLC separately. If you do, you don't get a nice carry case, posh Siemens screwdriver, snazzy Siemens Ethernet lead and a copy of WinCC. WinCC is for developing graphical front ends for Siemens LCD touch panels.

230V starter kit.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/logic-modules/8384889/
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/...0AA8-115-Vac-115-Vdc-230-Vac-230-Vdc?ref=list

230V Logo!8
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/logic-modules/8251641/

Logo!Soft Comfort
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plc-programming-software/8251704/

You might be able to find cheaper. I got my starter kit from Conrad Germany for £160.

Thank you for clearing that up.

I used to buy at Conrad all the time back in Germany but they don't ship to the US.

I found a US dealer that has most stuff in stock. http://www.alliedelec.com/siemens-6ed1057-3ba02-0aa8/70426749/

Is this the right expansion module? http://www.alliedelec.com/siemens-6ed1055-1fb10-0ba2/70603308/

Would you go 230V again or rather 24?

Before I'm going to order, I have to double check that I'll be able to fit that housing and all cables into my smallish cabinet.

What do you think?

 

[ian_m]

As you see in my article the case I used only squeezed in under the tank, so I had no room for 24V power supplies, so I used 230V modules.

As you are in Florida, US, the 230V module is actually 115V to 220V so you are fine. (in Florida @ Disney in July ).

Zeus had to use the 24V versions as he wanted to use analogue out (Kessil control) and the Logo! AM2 AQ module is 24V only. Analogue in are 12-24V modules.

You can mix (see Logo!8 user manual) the 230V (115V) Logo!8 PLC with analogue modules but you will still need a 24V supply for the analogue modules.

Nosing around the Siemens.com site gives this PDF that has the part numbers for the modules.
https://c4b.gss.siemens.com/resources/images/articles/dffa-b10079-01-7600.pdf

The 230V PLC with display is part number 6ED1052-1FB00-0BA8.

The 230V 8in 8 out relay module is 6ED1055-1FB10-0BA2

Please check very thoroughly before ordering as Zeus had right fun and games finally getting the correct modules.

As to if they will fit in your cabinet, looks likely.

Zeus built his PLC into a nice box along with DIN rail mounted contacts and extra relays. The extra relays turn the pumps/filters on all the time and are energised by the PLC to turn off filters/pumps, see my article for relay reasons and wiring. Putting it in a box will prevent accidental water issues getting near any electrics.

This is Zeus's wonderful beyond mutts nuts controller. Zeus sorry I pinched your picture...I will remove it, if the glory and appreciation of such a wonder by forum members is too much.

On the Siemens site you will find the dimensions of the module and DXF & 3D STP files. I used Visio (as I had it on hand at work) to import the DXF files to do rough CAD drawings. In my case will it fit in the case.

.

You could always printout the mechanical CAD PDF files 1:1 and cut them out and stick them on the back wall of your cupboard to see what it looks like. Get some felt tips, act age 7 and colour them in. .

 

[Zeus.]

Mine isnt finished yet as still have to get the thermistor (need to phone order on friday) then Temp monitoring will be done. hence the reason I havent posted it in Ians PLC thread. But fully functional for lights CO2 control via pH controler intergrated to PLC so one single from pH controler changes the way two CO2 injections operate in different light intensities. Does EI dosing and LCO2 dose too. Even thinking about added a PAR meter, which should work via the 0-10V analog input to the PLC base unit and a little programming

Heres a pic when first fitted to base seeing your keen on the PLC idea

Added a Ethernet over mains too, so mods to software is dead easy and no need to use SD card or run cable. Have 20 13amp 240V socket outlets which is a little OTT but needed quite a few as doing auto dosing with it too.
Legend for PLC inputs output ATM various push buttons to switch stuff on for limited time period, easy to edit via software. Needed lots of sockets so I could have a moonlight passover phase with kessils - one on at a time on lowest setting, Very cool IMO yet to post pics of it but close.

If after temp control Via PLC two routes thermister cheap less accurate but good enough IMO or temp probe very accurate double the price, either can do the heaters /chillers via LOGO software just make sure you have enough socket outlets. For the thermister route the 24V PLC unit is the best route as the base unit has four anaolog inputs as standard on the 0-10V range.

The PLC via software is great for moding times or editing your program, takes a bit of getting use too, demo program great for practice programming too.

Used .reichelt for most off my PLC bits - Good for RMAs when you order wrong parts never an issue except you have to pay for your own postage.

Space may be tight with your cabinet dependant esp with the 24V base unit route, how wide is your base? on how many outputs do you need/want. Adding the 240V sockets to the base unit changed the way a had planned to Mount the PLC enclosure.

Dont use the Display on PLC base unit find using Phone and the buttons I,ve added is enough and Software on PC OFC

 

[McCarthy]

Thanks for the item numbers and suggestions Ian.

Zeus, that's funny that you mention Reichelt. I used to live just 10 km from their shop in Sande. I spent days waiting in line buying new tools and toys. Just found out that they deliver to the US. That alone is a HUGE bonus because I'm having a hard time finding quality components here in the US.

My cabinet is 90 cm wide, 30 cm deep and 80 cm high. Inside dimensions are more like 86 x 26 x 70cm. Pretty tight, especially with that fat Eheim 4+ 350 and the 10 liter CO2 tank.

This is how Ian's controller would look like in my cabinet. I'd have some room behind it but that's it. All other room will be needed for heater, inline PH probe, Milwaukee controller, CO2 reactor and a bunch of hoses and quick connect adapters.

I don't want to automate everything, these are my main concerns:

1.) Temperature probe: cuts off the heater and light if it fails in the on position, turns on chiller above set temperature.
2.) Auto top-off system with 2 sensors.
3.) Programmable feeder, which turns of the canister filter when feeding,
4.) Programmable module that turns CO2 on or off based on PH probe, and based on timer (off at night). I have a Milwaukee controller but would prefer all from same brand.

Will it fit with all needed modules, sockets, relays, cables? What do you guys think?

 

[Zeus.]

It will fit, if you make it fit. But it's not a walk in the park. Cable managment socket outlets need to be worked out and sourced too. Plus which temp route will affect the size/type/cost of your PLC too. There isn't a quick answer and only you can decide if it's worth the time working it all out making it and learning the Logo software.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface

 

[ian_m]

1.) Temperature probe: cuts off the heater and light if it fails in the on position, turns on chiller above set temperature.
2.) Auto top-off system with 2 sensors.
3.) Programmable feeder, which turns of the canister filter when feeding,
4.) Programmable module that turns CO2 on or off based on PH probe, and based on timer (off at night). I have a Milwaukee controller but would prefer all from same brand.

All no problem with the PLC.

1.Temperature controller...done. Suppose your analogue input is 0V = 20'C and 10V = 40'C then this FBD will select heater on if temperature is below 26'C and turn cooler on if above 30'C. As temp falls will turn cooler off at 28'C.

Simulation with input of 29'C showing heater off and cooler on.

2. Water top up. You say two sensors, so assuming one is made when water level low and other made when water level high. Includes B004 a timer to limit the on time of pump to 10 minutes in case the high level sensor fails and never turns water pump off. Could put on a timer so only fills at say 6pm when you are likely to be around.

3. Turn pump off during feed. Timer used to turn pump/filter off for 10 minutes @ 11am, 4pm & 8pm (no 8pm on weekends, cos why not...). Triggers B003 which waits a minute to allow tank to settle down for 1 minute before pulsing the output Q2 for one second to trigger your fish feeder. However I would not recommend turning filters off on a timer as I used to do that with my Juwel internal filter and as shaft wore away sometimes the filter would not restart after power was reapplied.

4. pH probe diagram similar to temperature diagram.

Small observation...if you are using temperature probes, level sensors and pH probes, then the 24V Logo is the way to go so that you keep 230V away from the water, like Zeus is doing. My PLC has no sensors so I used 230V as all 230V wiring is contained within the box.

 

[McCarthy]

All no problem with the PLC.

1.Temperature controller...done. Suppose your analogue input is 0V = 20'C and 10V = 40'C then this FBD will select heater on if temperature is below 26'C and turn cooler on if above 30'C. As temp falls will turn cooler off at 28'C.
View attachment 105552

Simulation with input of 29'C showing heater off and cooler on.
View attachment 105553

2. Water top up. You say two sensors, so assuming one is made when water level low and other made when water level high. Includes B004 a timer to limit the on time of pump to 10 minutes in case the high level sensor fails and never turns water pump off. Could put on a timer so only fills at say 6pm when you are likely to be around.
View attachment 105554

3. Turn pump off during feed. Timer used to turn pump/filter off for 10 minutes @ 11am, 4pm & 8pm (no 8pm on weekends, cos why not...). Triggers B003 which waits a minute to allow tank to settle down for 1 minute before pulsing the output Q2 for one second to trigger your fish feeder. However I would not recommend turning filters off on a timer as I used to do that with my Juwel internal filter and as shaft wore away sometimes the filter would not restart after power was reapplied.
View attachment 105556
4. pH probe diagram similar to temperature diagram.

Small observation...if you are using temperature probes, level sensors and pH probes, then the 24V Logo is the way to go so that you keep 230V away from the water, like Zeus is doing. My PLC has no sensors so I used 230V as all 230V wiring is contained within the box.

Damn! I owe you beer.

I wouldn't be surprised if I come up with even more functions based on analog sensors. In that case the 24V controller will be better for me.

Thank you for the function diagrams. I like that Siemens pseudo code.

For now I'll plan the layout of my cabinet in order to make sure that everything will fit and with hoses and tubes being as short as possible. For that I have to look into my top-off and water change function. My reverse osmosis unit is on the other side of the wall right behind the cabinet. I can run a 1/4" hose with RO water and a waste water hose through the wall right into the cabinet.

 

[McCarthy]

Will this 24 V solenoid valve work for water top off from the RO unit? Incoming pressure is at 25 PSI.

https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/apex-fmm-solenoid-valve-sv-1-neptune-systems/


These water level switches look good. I do not want those bulky, mechanical float switches.

https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/a...BPksMl_Ggcs0qDO_L3ewHQZeyHVRrdESO5hoCpCrw_wcB

 

[ian_m]

Solenoid looks OK.

The sensor though is a special for connecting to an Apex Fluid Monitoring module, so no good to connect to a PLC. There are plenty of float sensors that operate a switch that can feed a PLC. You can also get optical sensors as well, that close a relay when water level reaches within say 50mm of the sensor.

You have to trust the level sensors of course to turn the water off when the level is reached. One safety solution is put an overflow pipe in bottom of tank.

Or have a "hidden tank" connected via a U tube. This could of course be in the other room. Will need someway of drawing air out of the U tube.

 

[zwujizz]

Maybe you need a connector to operate