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Problem with Pogostemon Helferi

Bobtastic

Bobtastic

Member
Joined
13 May 2009
Messages
745
Location
Manchester, UK
Hi all,

I have recenly added some Pogostemon Helferi into my tank, at first all was fine but a couple of the plants have completely withered away... The 2 arrows point to plants that have died... I'm concerned that it is spreading across the row...

RedArrows.jpg


Has anyone seem this before?

I'm currently dosing with TPN+ and EasyCardon.
 
it looks like you have quite and algae problem, and this will compete with your plants for the nutrients you are dosing.

we need some more details,

how much are you dosing?
what size tank?
how long has it been set up?
filtration? (including any flow, e.g koralia's)
 
The tank is my first attempt at a planted tank so it's still trial and error atm. Tank is 240L, but tall.

Dosing TPN+ and EasyCardon at recommended doseage. Tho would need to look at the bottle to confirm that :?

Planted with

Vesicularia dubyana 'Christmas' + other mosses
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Pogostemon Helferi
Cryptocoryne crispatula
Staurogyne sp.
Micrathenum
and a couple of other cryps

Running a Fluval 405 + a Hydor Koralia 1.

I think I really need to get pressurised C02 for the lighting levels, but I'm working on that.

Been running approx. 4monts, but been built up slowly.
 
Hi Bob, you don't say how much lighting you have over the tank? Eitherway, pressurised CO2 is the future, especially in a tank that size. You'd need like 50 DIY setups to supply a tank that size with the required CO2, or a HUGE amount of EasyCarbo. Most people double the amount of EasyCarbo that is stated on the bottle.

As JamesM says, CO2 and nutrients will solve your issues, but the key is to find the balance between Light, CO2 and Nutrients. You need a lot of all of them or a little of all of them. If you have loads of light then you need loads of CO2 and Nutrients, if you have a little light then you can have a little or no CO2 and Nutrients. More water changes usually wouldn't hurt, especially if your getting a lot of dead plant matter in the tank.

Nutrient and CO2 demand is light driven so until you sort some decent CO2 then i'd drop your lighting. I hope that helps.
 
Thats really quite low light and P. helferi, to my knowledge and experience needs pretty high lighting. That may explain why that particular plant won't grow but in my opinion you should concentrate on the algae issues first.
 
Well i now know that your under low light so your right, ferts and CO2 are less important. SuperColey has had great results using this method, it's not something i've really explored.
 
Bobtastic said:
So what would be the suggestion for dealing with the algae?

I was under the impression that if the lighting was low that the addion of ferts and C02 was less of a requirement...
Click to expand...
Yes, but that doesn't mean they can be zero. Dosing per bottle instructions will usually lead to trouble, especially in a large tank. Withering of plants is almost always due to poor CO2, although as Dan says, it is a possibility that you are below the minimum energy levels for some species. P. helferi responds poorly to low CO2 levels so I would address this first before addressing lighting levels. It's very possible that the plants, over time can adapt to the nutrient/CO2 levels you are providing, but that won't happen by next week, that's for sure.

I don't understand why everyone assumes they can automatically get away with low levels of nutrients+CO2. This is a typical result. Why not start with high levels and work your way down? Then you will avoid all or most of these problems. JamesM has put it succinctly:
JamesM said:
More co2 and more nutrients = problem solved.
Click to expand...
In any case, you'll need to mechanically remove the algae including all affected leaves, increase your water changes and double or even triple nutrients and liquid carbon. Remember to dose after water changes.

Cheers,
 
It's typically not a hard plant, if there's ample nutrients(easy to do/rule out), and its not a light demanding plant in the least, softer water is better than hard, then it's really a CO2 issue.

Some of my clients did well with it, even at 1.2 meters deep.
So not much light was getting there, but then again, no much CO2 demand either.

If my CO2 is off, it does not do so well.
If the CO2 is spot on, then it does.
It's slower to respond than Riccia certainly, but after a few days/week, you should see a marked difference.

Just be careful adjusting the CO2, do not get over zealous/impatient, makes sure there is good surface movement/circulation prior.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 
I had the same problem as well and mostly when I bought emersed p.helferi. The submerged version tend to grow immediate whereas the emerged version tend to wither/melt away in a few weeks time. I haven't keep any fish in the tank or shrimp so I've blasted the tank with CO2, lights of 48W over 15 gallon and regular ferts using EI method with a 10x flow in the tank. Even under these situation I get melting of these plants. Tried growing them emerged before plunging them into water but they are quite difficult to grow emerged with aquasoil. I've had better luck with topsoil.
 
Just noticed last night that when I did my last water change I inadvertantly turned the temp on the heater... to 30c... :thumbdown: I have a feeling that this is what might have had the negative effect on the P. helferi! I can't be sure, cos I can't remember when the problem started... I've turn the temp back down to 26c to see what happens.
 
daniel19831123 said:
I had the same problem as well and mostly when I bought emersed p.helferi. The submerged version tend to grow immediate whereas the emerged version tend to wither/melt away in a few weeks time. I haven't keep any fish in the tank or shrimp so I've blasted the tank with CO2, lights of 48W over 15 gallon and regular ferts using EI method with a 10x flow in the tank. Even under these situation I get melting of these plants. Tried growing them emerged before plunging them into water but they are quite difficult to grow emerged with aquasoil. I've had better luck with topsoil.
Click to expand...
The emersed form of P. Helferi looks very different to the submerged form, and I believe both Tropica and AquaFleur sell the submerged form only.

Emersed form: http://www.aquabotanic.com/images/chelmsiipot.JPG
 
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