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Preload dosing

Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
50
Location
Norway
I have been trying E.I dosing my hightec tank for about 6 months, but the plants have not responded like I hoped. Something was still not right. And dosing more and more ferts did not solve my issues. I have probably over fertilized and despite sometimes doing more than one 50%wc a week I have seen rising TDS, stunted growth, unresolved plant issues (holes, melting and yellowing and gsa/gda). I could just not figure out what elements where responsible for witch issue. Particularly the possibility of trace/micro accumulation was a concern.

So I figured I needed a change of tactics and came up with a different approach to the fertz.

If I do bigger wc and do them more often I can spice up the new water to hold whatever fert levels I want and if i don’t add any more during the week I would have total control of water parameters without any accumulation. I did not want to add any more ferts during the week (except FE).

Since accumulated levels in E.I is roughly max twise the weekly addition, I figured I can aim for 2/3 of what that would bee and still have less ferts in the water than I would if I did E.I.

Tank size is about 160 liter.
3x39w ho t5, 8 hours (4hours 2x39w)
Pressurized co2, cerges reactor.

My tap water is really soft so I need to add some gh+ and kh+.
And the current recipe is as follows:

*100liter tap water =70% of tank watervolume

*Caco3 to get a total Gh6 and Kh2

*MgNo3 to get 36ppm No3 (7ppm Mg)

*Kh2Po4 0,3gr to get 2 ppm Po4

*Kso4 8gr to get 36ppm k

*Mgso4 to get 7ppm Mg+7ppm from MgNo3= 14ppm Mg

*csm+b to get 0,2ppm Fe

I did 3 of this big wc the first week to "reset" my tank water. Second week I did two, and the third week only one.
This way of dosing seems to work great for about 5 days before I need to add more ferts.
It looks like Fe and Mg are the things that need topping off after some days in order to last a full week, or I can do another 70%waterchange if I have the time.

Plant health and growth have improved, tds is lower in the tank, gsa and gda have declined a bit , but I have also reduced light intensity so that might also be a factor.
Bba is just about gone from the tank, but I feel this is more due to cleaning my filters more often.
Before I posted this I just checked my tank log and found out that it had been 10 days between the last two water changes. This seems a bit longs and things started to look a little bit off again.
Anyway, after about 4-5 weeks of preload dosing I see improvement in my tank. I feel I have a better grasp on what have been issues for this setup.
And now tweeking the last bit of ferts in order to get tings looking its best seems within reach.

Here is a pic of my hygrophila compact. I got it a few weeks before I started preload dosing. The oldest leafs show holes/spots and gsa. New leafs looking better.
IMG_20190826_59812.jpg
 
Your PO4 seems a bit a the low side for the NO3 and K levels you are dosing and I would double the trace dose..

The old leaves are pre your tank so I would remove them seeing the new leaves look healthy.

Also have you done a pH profile ? what colour is your DC? and whats your filter/powerheads output?

Full tank Pic would help too ;)

3x39w ho t5, 8 hours (4hours 2x39w)

8 hrs is quite a long photoperiod and I take it the (4hours 2x39w) is part of the main photoperiod or is that dawn and dust ?
 
I have not done a pH profile, but I have a pH drop of more than 1 before lights on. I have not bothered testing pH in ages.
I do not have a drop checker either. But I have a flow meter on my co2 and it is dialed in to the point where I am certain that the co2 level in the tank water is sufficient.
Filtration is two external eheim with 1440l/H combined "theoretical" capacity.
And in the inert substrate there is tropica soil, Jbl clay balls and pinia clay balls from aqua plants care UK. It has been a while since I added clay balls, so this might need refreshing now. But it is not only inert substrate.
When trimming Moss and doing maintenance I was already forced to do some extra wc. And my drain/refill setup is so convenient that I don't mind changing water.
5 days seems like a good interval for this method in my tank.
Here is a pic of a.r. Pink today.
This is a plant that has had issues in my tank.
IMG_20190826_45937.jpg
 
You are right for thinking my Po dose is low compaired to the other macros.
I don't know how much of it my fish load is adding, so I'm am currently trying a lower dose. I can not say that it has had any negative effects on plants or positive affect on algea so..... Time will tell. And since I have tried adding ridiculous amounts of it and gained nothing, I can try holding back some and see how it affects things. Green dust/dot algea has been a real p.i.t.a for a long time, and I was hoping it would be resolved once I got the ferts in balance.
Right now It looks like I need to add something like 15ppm Mg to my tank and maybe even top that off after 4-5 Days(crazy soft tap water). This is kind of surprising.

If I remember correctly I am currently dosing about 1/4 of suggested E.I dose of csm+b. This is half of what I was dosing when I got stunted growth tips on a.r.pink. I am not 100% sure this was due to micro issues, but I am suspecting it so I am a little sceptical of dosing higher. I might try spreading it out over several small doses.

My phone has a horribly bad camera, and I can not get pictures of the tank without the plants up top being too bright and the shaded parts too dark. I will try and post some pics but most of my tank pics from this last year is in a phone I managed to brake. I can get desent close ups thou.
11. Aug
IMG_20190827_34583.jpg

IMG_20190827_14315.jpg

What do you think is the issue with these pale, yellow s.repens. 
IMG_20190827_34931.jpg
 
Looks like chlorosis, Iron deficiency, might be a problem with keeping it in ion- state ( low pH soft water)
How is your iron dosing and what chelator are you using, only CSM-B?
Yes and no.
csm+b has been the only iron source resently.
I have one other iron source I can add.
When I first got into ppmd ten years ago I bought some liquid Fe and liquid trace mix. My notes from that time is gone, so I have no idea what the ingredients are or how to dose them. I remember the seller said the trace had iron in it but I would probably need additional supplement.
I don't expect anyone to know what these are but here is a pic anyway.
Fe on the left, micro on the right
Dark red and brown drops.
IMG_20190828_59860.jpg


I will try and add some iron every other day for a week and see how it turns out. Tank water volume is around 160liter and one drop of liquid Fe weighs 0,05gram. Two drops maybe? This is kind of guesswork but it is a convenient way of adding iron if I can figure out how much.
 
one on left looks like the FeEDDHA I use.
I dose about 0.6+ppm Fe a week, my water is very hard so mainly dose FeDTPA and a bit of FeEDDHA till the water has a slight pink tinge, your Fe just seems a tad on the low side at 0.2ppm. But with your soft water there should be no need for FeDTPA or FeEDDHA, FeEDTA should be enough.
 
Looks like chlorosis, Iron deficiency, might be a problem with keeping it in ion- state ( low pH soft water)
How is your iron dosing and what chelator are you using, only CSM-B?
Good call on the iron.
Since the last post I have I bought 8% dtpa-fe. And for the last two weeks I have been dosing small doses of iron or trace mix containing iron every day. This has clearly had a positive effect. I can see both growth-rate and plant health have improved.
So it's clear to me now that trace and iron can not be added via new water only. Lesson learned.
It feels like another piece in this puzzle have found its place and now I just need to figure this next one out and the rest should come naturally.
One "issue" I can't seem to get resolved is these spots on my floaters. There are some melting both on floating plants and submersed, and the salvinia get some dark spots.
IMG_20190909_15872.jpg
At first I believed it was due to phosphate, but no matter how much Po4 I Dosed these spots would not stop showing up.
I also had hygrophila compact with small holes in leafs so it might be potassium. it might be potassium/calcium/magnesium balance is a little off.
The tank weekly dosing for the last two weeks have been:
No3~25-30ppm
P~3ppm
K~30-35ppm
Mg 12-15ppm
Ca 9ppm. 100 liter New water is topped off with 3.5-4grams Caco3, this adds 15ppm Ca and at the end of the week gh was 6dgh

Am I dosing to much Mg or potassium compared to calcium?
Does anyone have a suggestion for what to try and chang next?
Any idea how much Mg can be consumed in a high lit tank in a week?
I am still optimist in pursuing my goal of some day filling inn all pieces and seeing this puzzle complete.
 
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