Practical application of lean fertilizer dosing

[MichaelJ]

I suspect your inert 2 years soil will be far from enough. You grew plants during these 2 years yes? Unless you didn't and dosed heavily and your substrate has a high CEC those plants also sucked up some of the nutrients so your soil will not be as heavily fertile as you think. Note that Sudipta used Amazonia light then also added some Amazonia I. Those are heavily fertile substrates.
In my tank, I can tell you that after 1 year using Amazonia + Black Earth I could see some plants struggling and instead of using osmocote or the like I simply sucked sections of substrate and added new one. Within the next month plants in those sections would rise to fame.
Anyway, you got to try else you'll never know. And yes please do that journal 😬

Hi @Hanuman , Yes, my inert but "mature" substrate is an unknown factor. I did grow plants in it for 2 years. Previously I did dose quite heavily (EI levels) for a long time. I do not know what level the substrates Cation Exchange Capacity is at - thats a big unknown. I mostly kept the substrate undisturbed, with only occasional vacuuming of mulm and detritus. Also, I am using a bit of Osmocote balls in the area where I keep the stem plants. I hope I do not have to replace the substrate... Lets see. It might be feasible to deploy your idea of gradually replacing the substrate with Amazonia.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Yugang]

looking forward to that journal

I am just a humble research engineer

Patience please, the long awaited journal will actually be @MichaelJ (second) PhD thesis🧑‍🎓

 

[aquanoobie]

Patience please, the long awaited journal will actually be @MichaelJ (second) PhD thesis🧑‍🎓

Before or after a third gigantic thread?

 

[Hanuman]

Yes, my inert but "mature" substrate is an unknown factor.

Mature or not has little importance in this specific situation I think as long as it is cycled and you have no more or very little ammonia leeching. You could have a 15 year old substrate with all the bacteria in the world that it would be the same issue, and that is nutrient availability in the substrate. Maturity of the substrate is beneficial from a general stand point of the tank and its stability but it serves little if food is not present or in low amounts and you have hungry plants. Anyway as long as you are adding something to the substrate then you should be good.

In my current tank, when I reset it a few months ago, I took 10%-15% of the old substrate and added it as a first layer before adding the new substrate. The tank was basically cycled in 4 days with <0.5ppm ammonia showing in the tests. I kept all my plants in a styrofoam box in high humidity for that time. On the 5th day when I added the plants back, I basically had 0% melt and all plants started growing like if nothing had happened. The plants I was most concerned about were my bucephalandra but they didn't skip a beat. All stems grew without waiting any further notice.

All I am saying is that you should not get too tight on the maturity of the substrate. It is important of course but most importantly is for plants to have food.

 

[MichaelJ]

Patience please, the long awaited journal will actually be @MichaelJ (second) PhD thesis🧑‍🎓

well, as long as my friends @Hanuman, @GreggZ, @Tim Harrison and @LondonDragon are not on the board of examiners, I might have a sporting chance defending this one

Before or after a third gigantic thread?

After... I guess. Might take a couple as these guys are very hard to convince!

 

[Easternlethal]

I kept all my plants in a styrofoam box in high humidity for that time.

Why didn't you plant straightaway? Nh4 + softening is good no?

 

[Hanuman]

Why didn't you plant straightaway? Nh4 + softening is good no?

Not really. If you plant straight away in a fresh rich aquasoil that leaches excessive amounts of ammonia you can expect some level of melting. Plants do like ammonia or other macros for that matter but when ppm levels are way off from what they are used to, they need to adapt again and you can/will get some melting combined with algae proliferation. On fast growing plants, not a big deal. On epiphytes not so cool. What I did was a fast mini-cycle. My canister also helped as I didn't touch it during the reset. Once all was back to normal I did a quick clean of the filter.
Tank was left like this for 4 days without light. WC 2-3 times within that period to remove all ammonia excess.

 

[Hanuman]

well, as long as my friends @Hanuman, @GreggZ, @Tim Harrison and @LondonDragon are not on the board of examiners, I might have a sporting chance defending this one


After... I guess. Might take a couple as these guys are very hard to convince!

The only examiners/judges here are your plants. 🤓 We are mere spectators.😎

 

[Tim Harrison]

The only examiners/judges here are your plants. 🤓 We are mere spectators.😎

Whilst we’re on that subject. This, not so unique idea, has already been discussed ad nauseam in two mammoth threads that differ only in title. Surely there can’t be that much more to discuss? Wouldn’t it be better to start a journal now and turn theory in to practice?

Then you’ll be able to test your hypothesis and see if it holds true with reference to an actual planted aquarium. Like @Hanuman has suggested the plants will be the ultimate arbitrators. I’m sure it’d make for a far better and more productive discussion.

 

[Hanuman]

 

[Easternlethal]

has already been discussed

just curious - as a mod do you prefer lots of traffic talking about the same ole or less of both?
journals are very tricky things to do especially if one fails then some ppl think you just lack skill

 

[Kerrycarp]

In my experience no one on this forum would think you have failed just because you lack the skills or knowledge.
A journal would show where your shortcomings are and most people here are only to happy to share their knowledge and skills as they don't want you to fail.
The people on this forum are coming along with you on your ride. They will experience the same joy (and heartache) as you do.
You will not be criticised but helped so that your own knowledge develops.

 

[Tim Harrison]

journals are very tricky things to do especially if one fails then some ppl think you just lack skill

That’s a pretty jaundice view of the UKAPS team and other members. Quite the contrary, Journals are often the best place to get constructive feedback and help when things don’t go according to plan for various reasons. Not least the history is there to reference for solutions. I’ve documented more than a few disasters in warts ‘n’ all journals; nobody criticised me for lack of skill.

As for your other question, don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous?

 

[LondonDragon]

well, as long as my friends @Hanuman, @GreggZ, @Tim Harrison and @LondonDragon are not on the board of examiners, I might have a sporting chance defending this one

Otherwise, you will turn into another Happi, that just talks about the theories but shows little evidence of the fact in over a decade! Like we said we encourage journals, if nothing else to show the pros and cons of doing such a planted tank.

journals are very tricky things to do especially if one fails then some ppl think you just lack skill

If people start a journal because they are not going fail, then UKAPS would have no journals. Journals are useful to document progress as a minimum, have input from other members when things go wrong, or highlight how you have overcome issues! Not just to post the pretty photos of when things are going well, thats how journals end up in the featured section!

 

[erwin123]

just curious - as a mod do you prefer lots of traffic talking about the same ole or less of both?
journals are very tricky things to do especially if one fails then some ppl think you just lack skill

My journal is as much for my reference as for others to learn from my mistakes. I try to post a photo every week, good or bad, and since algae doesn't really bother me, you'll see lots of algae in my journal photos. When it comes to algae farming, I definitely don't lack skill

 

[Zeus.]

'Do or do not, there is no try'- believe it or not this quote form empire strikes back help me to get my degree. I believed it was possible first, the rest was down to 'grit'

 

[Sudipta]

All 4 of my non-CO2 supplemented softwater tanks, today's images.

Tank 1 - 20 gal; setup date - June 16, 2019. Notice the green dust algae on the left wall.

Tank 2 - 10 gal; setup date - Jan 4, 2020.

Tank 3 - 4 gal; setup date - Mar 1, 2021.

Tank 4 - 5 gal shallow; setup date - Oct 16, 2021.

 

[Wookii]

All 4 of my non-CO2 supplemented softwater tanks, today's images.

Tank 1 - 20 gal; setup date - June 16, 2019. Notice the green dust algae on the left wall.

Tank 2 - 10 gal; setup date - Jan 4, 2020.

Tank 3 - 4 gal; setup date - Mar 1, 2021.

Tank 4 - 5 gal shallow; setup date - Oct 16, 2021.

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Beautiful tanks - and even more incredible that you appear to be running them each with just a small HOB filter for each one, is that correct? If so, only minimal gas exchange and distribution.

May I ask what your lighting is on each of these tanks (light brand/model if known, wattage and setting level if dimmed)?

 

[MichaelJ]

Beautiful tanks - and even more incredible that you appear to be running them each with just a small HOB filter for each one, is that correct? If so, only minimal gas exchange and distribution.

May I ask what your lighting is on each of these tanks (light brand/model if known, wattage and setting level if dimmed)?

Hi @Sudipta , like @Wookii , I would definitely also like to know more about the lights you are using as well - the setup etc.. I think I might want to switch my lights in my lean-experiment tank.

Also tell us about the HOBs... what brand/model is it ?

Stunning tanks!

Also, I am thinking about potting my stems into ADA Amazonia soil - although my stems are still doing fairly well, I don't think my inert but mature substrate is going to cut it in the longer run. Big unknown.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Sudipta]

Beautiful tanks - and even more incredible that you appear to be running them each with just a small HOB filter for each one, is that correct? If so, only minimal gas exchange and distribution.

May I ask what your lighting is on each of these tanks (light brand/model if known, wattage and setting level if dimmed)?

Hi @Sudipta , like @Wookii , I would definitely also like to know more about the lights you are using as well - the setup etc.. I think I might want to switch my lights in my lean-experiment tank.

Also tell us about the HOBs... what brand/model is it ?

Stunning tanks!

Also, I am thinking about potting my stems into ADA Amazonia soil - although my stems are still doing fairly well, I don't think my inert but mature substrate is going to cut it in the longer run. Big unknown.

Cheers,
Michael

Thank you @Wookii and @MichaelJ
Here are the details:

Tank 1 (20 gallons)
Filter - Aquaclear 70 (300 gph max) - set at minimum flow rate (don't know the actual flow rate).
Light - Chihiros wrgb2 (60 cm, 67W) - 100% red, 50% green and 70% blue.

Tank 2 (10 gallons)
Filter - Aquaclear 30 (150 gph max) - set at minimum flow rate (don't know the actual flow rate).
Light - Chihiros rgb Aplus (45 cm, 35W) - 100% red, 55% green and 80% blue.

Tank 3 (4 gallons)
Filter - Dymax slim flo 120 (120L/h or roughly 32 gph max) - set at maximum flow rate (don't know the actual flow rate).
Light - Chihiros wrgb2 (30 cm, 33W) - 75% red, 35% green and 55% blue.

Tank 4 (5 gallons)
Filter - Dymax slim flo 120 (120L/h or roughly 32 gph max) - set at maximum flow rate (don't know the actual flow rate).
Light - Chihiros rgb (60 cm, 50W), older model - Full intensity.

You can get an idea about water flow and surface agitation from this video (I posted earlier). Keep in mind that some of the filters were not cleaned for almsot 3 weeks when I made this video, particularly the 4 and 5 gallons tanks.