Poorly peacock goby

[AlecF]

Does this Peacock Goby have fish TB? It has a bent spine and faded scales, which are symptoms. It declined fast and I have it in a tupperware, with an Indian almond leaf, floating in a tank. The only meds I have in are for flukes and some aquarium salt. I'm worried about infecting other fish and considering euthanising with clove oil. I did lose a sparkling gourami a week ago. I thought it was from wounds in a fight – though I didn't see one and it was the weakest of 5 sparklers. The Sparklers are prone to suddenly dying, though it's the first I have lost. I didn't take a photo; it had a red mark on its belly, which could have been a wound, or red blotch. I don't think the illness was the same as the Peacock Goby. My parameters are fine-ish – low nitrate and nitrite and ammonia – though the TDS has been c 400-450 for a couple of months and the plants haven't been happy. (No Co2, and I am a newbie struggling between adding APS micro and macro, and the TDS being high, while the GH is very low). I have now reduced the TDS through water changes. It's a 100 litre tank with a fluval 107 and an Eheim 70. I've just ordered a Fluval 307 as I don't feel the 107 is powerful enough, especially for a low and long tank. I can order meds for the PG, but I have no spare tank, so I can only treat it in the tupperware. I don't want to euthanise, but 'm wary of an infectious disease like TB (Mycobacterium spp) and I also note it's infectious to humans and I have a prior health condition. Euthanising seems a strong option. Does anyone have a specific med they can suggest? (My other fish, PG, sparklers, Cory, otos, all seem well). On a side note, in terms of the GH my snails have been doing very badly and I'm confused how to get enough carbonate and minerals in the tank without raising TDS too high – I have been trying bicarb, equilibrium, and have added some cuttlefish. The plants and snails used to be much happier, maybe the Fluval substrate has lost its efficacy after 6 months? I noted some here are happy to have TDS of 400+ due to dosing ferts, and I know TDS is only a vague indicator. Sorry for so many questions, but as we all know, things relate. Sorry for the poor photo, but you can see how faded the scales are.

 

[mort]

Hi Alex, just for some more info. Is the spine bend, slightly curved as shown in the photo or side to side? From a quick look at the photo I think it's spine is fine and it has a plump tummy which can make them look like this. You also see the head develop and become more bulbous as they mature and it can make them look pretty bent. The colouring does look faded but this could be because it's not thriving at the moment. It doesn't take much for fish to lose their vibrancy.
You say it's gone down hill quickly but does it have any symptoms like listlessness, buoyancy problems or lack of appetite etc? It's quite hard to diagnose anything from just the picture I'm afraid but if the gourami had red splotches then you might have a bacterial problem in the tank.

If you can list as much about how the fish is then it might help someone diagnose a likely problem.

 

[AlecF]

Thanks Mort. It looks bent to me, compared to the others, as in, arched, and with TB they tend to sink into themselves, emaciate, and that can make the spine curved. The curving is more towards the tail He was faded for at least 2-3 weeks and I think the tank did take a dip, though I haven't figured out why. I am hopeful the new filter will help, and in the meantime even more water changes than usual. I was dosing quite high ferts for a time, to try to get the plants to pick up, and maybe the filter wasn't working well – the TDS was stubbornly in the 400s, but it's now down to 270ppm. The PG is very listless, hangs out at the bottom, hides, wasn't eating much if at all. I'm not sure if the buoyancy is bad per se, it seems more that it just needs to be at the bottom of the tank and skulk miserably. The main symptom is the very faded scales and listlessness. I had an issue a month ago with a PG being attacked by a dominant male, so I moved that one to a smaller tank, with habrosus. I tried moving this recently sickly PG in there, but the now recovered PG was bullying it, and then I read the description of "TB", which sounded too close for comfort, so I have isolated him. The otos are doing well, and they can be sensitive. The other PG are fine. The other 4 sparklers seem fine and now that there's only 4 they seem less aggressive to one another. I know the body form of the PG and the mature males in the main tank are just as you describe, a kind of ugly form with beautiful colours. The sickly M is definitely emaciated in comparison. I should repeat, my tests – strips and API liquid tests – have been basically OK throughout, possibly nitrates a little high at one point, but never seriously so. I am hoping the 307 filter may help bring the TDS down, and allow the plants to pick up. I'm not experienced enough to describe the sickness better and mostly he was hidden away. I don't mind trying to treat him, but if it's TB then it feels risky. It may be a coincidence but it felt to me like the sparkler and PG were both the bottom of the pecking order.

 

[mort]

Unfortunately it's going to be impossible to say from a picture if it has tb at the moment. The only way I know apart from when they develop really characteristic visible signs, is through a necropsy. Personally I'm not confident that it is tb. I obviously can't see the fish or the observations you have made so you will have to trust your own judgement but tb can be a very slow disease and this seems relatively quick. You might have issues with the fluctuating water quality but if you have had aggression problems as well then it complicates diagnosis. If you would have told me nothing apart from the aggression of the other fish and that it's, faded, hiding and lost some weight, then I would have thought it was purely due to hierarchal stresses and if that hasn't caused a secondary infection, it would normally perk up quickly.
I think you have done the right thing with separating it and adding the almond leaf. The only other thing would be to add a little live daphnia if you have it to see if it will feed. If you can keep it going then you might see a change for the better. Fingers crossed.

Perhaps other may have more ideas of where to go from here.

 

[MirandaB]

Can't see anything from that photo to indicate mycobacterium,apart from the faded colour it looks in good condition.
To me it's either bullying or more likely the water quality as there should be no ammonia or nitrite showing at all on a test.

 

[AlecF]

I will try to get a video, though it's hard in the tupperware. It's true that the PG that was beaten up, and which I moved, has recovered well and if I could ever catch him I may return him. I will give this recent PG a few days and see if it begins to recover. With this recent one it's definitely poorly, not aggression, whereas the prior one was aggression – I saw them fighting and he took a beating, moreso than I've seen with PGs previously. I will try some live daphnia tomorrow as I have a new batch coming soon. The sparkler that died didn't look the same as the PG. The new filter arrives in 5 days and I can improve the water quality even more.

 

[AlecF]

Thanks Miranda. He does look a little perkier today so I will hold off with the clove oil and hope for a gradual improvement. The 5 PGs had coexisted reasonable well up until a month ago, even during a spell when the female seemed ready to mate – no mating happened. I still see some possible spinal issue, but I can't get a good enough photo while he is in the Tupperware. It may simply be bullying. In terms of the water the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite have consistently been OK on API liquid tests. And the only with any issue at all was some nitrate, within expected levels, on the strip tests. I still think the water has possibly been an issue, based on TDS, which is now much improved, and will improve more with the new filter. It's amazing how much bullying can affect a fish – rather like in our human lives!

 

[AlecF]

He still isn't interested in food.

 

[MirandaB]

Is it just in a bare container?
Might help to put a bit of plant or moss in there for a bit of cover.
I also think a 307 is going to be overkill in a 100lt tank as these fish are not fond of a lot of flow,you can use the lever to slow the flow down a bit on these but too much and I find the filter really doesn't work well.

 

[AlecF]

Thanks. I have already added floating plants and 2 oak leaves so it's not entirely bare. I will add the almond leaf back in but the water was getting very dark. I could add a sprinkling of sand. Also I will add some moss. He is pecking at some live brine now, but not with much gusto. That's a worry about the filter, but I have a spray bar and will turn down the flow. Better too much than too little. I have been running the 107 with more flow than before, and the Eheim adds even more in one corner, but the PGs have been OK as I have enough rocks to offer them sheltered spaces. In the past I have used sponges to lessen flow, when the sparklers had bubble nests and that worked – I have euroledges and can direct the spray bar towards them. I do a lot of small water changes, often daily, so the high TDS worried me and I blamed the filter (which I do clean).

 

[AlecF]

@mort and @MirandaB, if I can connect you back to my poorly PG. He's eating very little, and is in the Tupperware. I change the water everyday. He looks washed out, but no worse, possibly very slightly better. Today he started doing a weird thing of going perpendicular and sating there. He moves very little and I suspect he may have a damaged spine from an attack by the cock of the walk PG. But this did seem weird behaviour. If I knew he wasn't infectious I would out him in the 40 litre with the habrosus. I haven't treated I'm as I am not sure what it is, a fighting wound or disease. Just posting in case by a miracle you have any ideas. I will keep him as he is and hope for improvement. Sorry the photo is so bad because of the Tupperware. He's the bottom one, not the reflection!

 

[mort]

Hi sorry Alec I can't really help much. The washing out is possibly due to stress from being in the tub (not really anything you can do about that) but I can't really see anything in the picture that sticks out as a problem. It still appears to have fairly decent colour going on, perhaps not as vibrant as a really happy one. I also can't see any signs of disease or injury. The lack of a feeding response might be due to stress or an unwillingness to eat whilst being watched. The only thing I would perhaps try is to add some live food if you can get it and see if it is eaten throughout the day. Daphnia would be a good choice. If it does eat this then I'd continue to do what you are doing whilst feeding it up and then when you become more confident it's recovering move it to the tank.

 

[AlecF]

Thanks. Yes, he seems depressed – entirely ignored live baby brine, which is unheard of among my PGs. His swimming does seem affected, like a kind of full on listlessness, or actual damage, hard to say. I may risk him in with the habrosus.

 

[mort]

If you think it is physical (and I see nothing from the picture to suggest otherwise) then that might be it's best option. Looking through the fishes body on the picture it doesn't look like there are any signs of a internal bacterial problem that might cause the swimming issues. The low water level in the tub might help if it was so you'll need to make the call. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[AlecF]

Just watching him now he's transferred into the 40L cube, definite issue with the lower spine and swimming, but he can paddle about slowly. I did see him being bitten on his back so maybe he has long-term or permanent damage.

 

[MirandaB]

Give him a couple of days in that tank to see if he perks up as I can't see anything in the way of disease wrong with him.
If you could get a video of him moving about it would help