Please sign this petition - Fuel prices

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Nelson

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NeilW said:
Most of the vehicles I see on the road are vastly oversized for what they are being used for; most people sit in a 5-seater saloon car with just them in it (or is this a generalisation?).
I'd say that probably a lot of those cars are also used at evenings and weekends for the whole family.So they need that many seats.
But as Luis also pointed out in an earlier post,a 1.8 litre engine or bigger is not really needed for driving around town.
4x4's in the city !.Ridiculous............... :thumbdown: .
NeilW said:
I'm not saying we should all jump on bikes as I admit its not everyones cup of tea
I used to ride a ped in London when i was younger.Not anymore though,Too dangerous for me :lol: .

NeilW said:
or even a blahblahblahblahblah extension :lol:
Yeah,I really need to get a,err,bigger car :lol: .

Great post though Neil :thumbup: ,unlike some of the other verbal diarrhea :rolleyes: .
 

dazzer1975

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29 Aug 2011
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Generally speaking, I think it is a ludicrous suggestion to double the price of fuel, as has been stated, the economic life of the world, and with it, the kind of life we are only equipped to lead in this modern world will also cease. I am a firm believer that Malthus was wrong, however, we most definitely live within a closed system, so whatever technology we develop in the future to maintain our life styles, it had better be renewable, or short term until the next development arrives... ad infinitum.

Brenmuk on page 2 covers my sentiments adequately:

In an ideal world we would not have become dependent on fossil fuels that are finite and polluting but we are where we are.
Now back to explaining to nelson what is already before his eyes, although I suspect he thought it was his views I did not agree with, not so.

page 1 skeletonwoot:

Don't worry - theres more than enough crude oil left in the world to last a good couple of hundred years more - and don't worry about global warming because that is vastly overstated & still unproven.
The first part is debatable, and only debatable simply because no one can say what oil reserves will be found in the future, there is debate regarding the accuracy of opec reserve figures and also what technology will be invented to enable ever more efficient oil extraction, but as it stands right now there is not one country on Earth with reserves expected to last 200 years.

The second part about global warming is complete tosh. I think you got mixed up with man made global warming, however, the scientific community has a very broad consensus that the current 'rate' at which the planet is warming is faster than at any time throughout the earth's history and it is that which can only be attributed to man's actions.

There is no debate that global warming per se exists, none, zilch, nada.

The planet is engaged on a continuous cycle of warming and cooling. Incidentally, there is even one model that predicts cooling as a result of the warming, if that happens, it is game over, for Britain at least, as she will be plunged beneath a layer of 2 mile thick ice.

page 3 supercoley1:
these days uninsured and un MOT'd wrecks containing a few europeans travel out to these jobs and the tranny vans are no more!!! (Not a generalised view either. I used to work at one (which I biked 9.5 miles to and from each day) and my job was to check the car park for tax discs!!! Got through some paper on that one!!!
Here is the example of bigotry, incase you can't work it out for yourself.

So, on a thread about fuel prices, we have a post about immigrants and illegality, how very refreshing.

I note the job was checking tax discs, not nationality, mot state or insurance (although I admit, insurance will be void if they knew there was no tax) yet we have here examples of un-roadworthy vehicles overladen with foreigners.

The lack of empirical evidence, is, I am sure, not much of a surprise.

page 4 skeletonwoot...again:

We buy from abroad due to labour costs. Because everyone in the UK thinks they deserve a cushy job haanded to them on a plate. They arent willing to work in a factory for £2 an hour because benefits pay more!
This is just breathtaking ignorance of the highest order and actually makes me sad that there are people walking around with this kind of ignorant viewpoint without any understanding as to how our economy got to where it did and the whys of it.

We buy from abroad due to labour costs, that is true, the part about everybody in the U.K. thinking they deserve a cushy job handed to them is just baseless vitriolic rhetoric straight out of the right wing book on pithy but baseless sound bites.

It may have passed you by, but Great Britain is no longer the manufacturing powerhouse with an empire with which to exploit raw materials from at greatly reduced prices, while offloading her manufacturing output at greatly increased prices, she once was. Our dominant economic position was starting to decline before WW2, during it, we were bankrupt, literally, and after it we engaged on a massive Keynesian economic path to rebuild the country and provide jobs and investment. This kept us ticking along nicely until the latter part of the 60's and into the 70's when the investment and building had run its course and we were again trying to stand on our own two feet. Unfortunately for us, by this time, our empire had all but vanished, and the global economy had moved on, meaning we were now having to compete on the global stage with all the other manufacturing center’s which had started to spring up, in Asia, along with our pre-existing competitors in Europe and America.

Couple this with increasing workplace union - management struggles and a singular lack of capital investment in industry, and it is very easy to see how the costs for British made goods were becoming non competitive on the global economic stage especially at a time when the rest of the world was increasing investment and efficiency.

As a result, unemployment started to increase as this lack of competitiveness drove companies to close down or shrink in size, which in turn had a knock on effect of reducing demand for those who supplied goods and services to British manufacturing, thus further increasing unemployment and driving down demand.

It is evident that something had to be done. Step forward Thatcher. I hate Thatcher, with a passion, but on this she was absolutely spot on. She realised the economy needed a change of direction and a different make-up than that which was failing, and failing badly. The thing she did get wrong however, will be the same mistake, indeed IS, the same mistake Cameron is making, shrinking the state at a time when state investment in infrastructure is badly needed to stimulate jobs, growth and building.

Sure, selling off all the nationalised industries went some way towards increasing efficiencies and providing the investment the tory government was unwilling to provide, and also fattened the govt’s coffers. Which as a good thing, considering under Thatcher unemployment rose and so did the state as benefit claimants expanded along with it… naturally. So fair enough, be a right winger, but at least understand where right wing ideology falls down, particularly at times of economic distress, rolling back the state is never the answer, and actually, quite ironically, increases those groups you despise so much, the unemployed.

Back to the main point regarding Britain’s changing economy. Switching from a primary and secondary based economy to a tertiary and quaternary based economy is what drove the coal mines to be shut down, but it's also why we have the Britain of today that we have, in both its economic and its social structure.

As a side issue, this is why New Labour introduced tuition fees for university. The population was to be better educated for a high tech and specialised tertiary and quaternary economy, in a world where manufacturing of easy to automate and low skill items being focused in the 3rd world, Britain was to become the world leaders in skilled manufacturing such as bio tech, nano tech, and providing highly specialised engineering and services, along with expanding the financial sector and encouraging outside investment from foreign companies in these industries... thus providing Britain with a niche on the world stage.

That is why we buy from abroad, and that is why it is not even a fraction towards an answer simply saying people in Britain are lazy, it is those who say that who are the lazy ones.

People are not willing to work in a factory for £2 an hour because the national minimum wage is over £6ph, this has also increased, as it should, as a result of the changing face of Britain’s economy. £2 ph no longer cuts it in a world that is post industrialised.

Don't like it? Change the system, do not villify those on the national minimum wage who earn a full and massive £12k p.a.

I think you would agree, £4k p.a. (for someone on £2 ph working 40 hrs a week) would barely cover a person's food for a year.

Another side point you are most certainly unaware of, is that a population of the size we have in Britain, living under a capitalist economy how we do, requires that in periods of FULL EMPLOYMENT, there is to be between 500,000 and 750,000 people unemployed.

That is how the system works, that is how the system is at it’s most efficient, that is how the economy and monetary policy is best balanced.

Tell me, what would you do with those half a million people who are sacrificed at the alter of capitalism so the rest of us can find well paying jobs and not have to worry too much about inflation getting out of control?

Whereas in India & China people will work because their societies have not yet been corrupted by the welfare system.
I think you will find, that in India and china there is little in the way of social justice, social responsibility or socialised directives governing employment law.

As a working class man, I thank my lucky stars I live in a country more enlightened towards worker's rights which have increased my safety in the workplace, increased my wages and increased the time I get to spend with my family. Trust me, I have spent 70 + hours per week engaged in back breaking manual work for very little pay and little heed to health and safety, and I am eternally grateful the work place has been brought, albeit kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

If you want to go back to that, enjoy yaself, but I reckon you'll be working on your own.

I also rather like the fact that my taxes go towards a system that takes note of, and tries to help those who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances.

There but for the grace of god go I (I am not religious, but you get the sentiment)

And if you are still in any doubt as to the real problem areas in our society, especially during these times with economic woes a plenty, you may wish to take note of the following regarding benefit claimants and benefit cheats.

More money goes unclaimed that people are legally entitled to through the benefit system than that which is estimated to be lost through benefit fraud.

The figure for unclaimed benefit is circa £2billion
The figure for benefit fraud is circa £1billion.

Now pay attention to the following:
vodafone owe £6billion tax
google pay something like 2% tax
Tesco is registered offshore so it diverts most of what it should be paying outside the country
HMRC's building, is part owned by a company registered in the channel islands, and thus even the rent the british government pay is squirrelled away into tax havens.

And you come out with this tripe about £2 ph for factory workers? get a clue.

page 4 supercoley1:

If labour costs and work conditions hadn't been such a priority we would still be building cars in this country for our own brands. Just as I would still be working in a major diesel industrial engine manufacturer (the biggies) These are the costs of wanting loads of money, loads of luxuries whilst paying as little as possible for them. Blame ourselves and the unions we bought into always pushing for more on our behalf.
no, blame human nature... and that which I write above.

As for the rest of SC's post from which I take the above quote, i have some sympathy with the views expressed, however, I would say we are not in a perfect world, and everyone and their circumstances are different.

page 4 skeletonwoot:

If you put taxes up on fuel all you will do is hurt middle england more (the people who basically keep the country going)
Given the rates at which working tax credits are paid and family tax credits, in addition to who child benefit is paid to (a couple earning £80k between them can claim under Tory plans, previously the sky was the limit) it seems massively ironic he would choose to invoke middle England, while holding the views on benefit claimants that he does.

BTW, where do you stand on a universal welfare system? Do you think people should be able to opt out of paying national insurance, of course, with the proviso that they refuse to accept any national assistance.

Before you answer, think carefully about the costs involved, education, primary, secondary, higher, then there is healthcare, which may not seem so daunting, until you factor in emergency care ala A&E.

You either agree with a system that provides a safety net, but which costs money, or you don't.

And back to the quote above, actually, you hurt everybody if you increase costs for everybody, and lets be honest here, you hurt those on the lowest wages the most, not to mention the disabled who depend on vehicle ownership but who may have to rely on benefits just to be able to function to any meaningful way within society.

But yer, middle england will not only hurt the most, but be the only ones hurt :rolleyes:

and yet again, skeletonwoot entertains us with his insight into the hard hitting social issues of the day in 21st century Britain, page 5:

Te unemployed on benefits dont care because they pay for nothing anyway. The rich can afford it so they dont care... Yet again its middle england that will foot the bill.
"The unemployed on benefits don't care because they pay for nothing anyway"

So good I quoted it twice, this man is a comedy genius and I urge him to forward this thread to bbc new talent, they surely would sign him up in an instant.

At a time of economic meltdown, when every job is being chased by 5 people, when the private sector is incapable of replacing the number of jobs lost in the public sector in addition to the meltdown of employment security, this guy comes out with comedy gold.

Buggar it, I will write it again it really is that good.

"the unemployed on benefits dont care because they pay for nothing anyway"

Where to start with this gem? How about trying to establish the rigorous work gone into forming this conclusion, on what is it based, on who is it based, what case studies had been done that can substantively back up claims of this nature that the unemployed simply do not care.

It is true, in some skewed indirect but easily understandable to those with limited cognitive ability, that the unemployed on benefits do not pay for anything, as they receive benefits, bordering on a tautology there, but what have we come to expect from this chap?

An alternative way of looking at the issue, would be to more accurately explain that those on benefits, have at some point in the past, and will at some point in the future contribute via direct taxation in the form of income tax. Thus, (using the figures I mentioned earlier regarding eligibility of benefits) it is entirely right, proper, legal and correct that people who find themselves unemployed (for whatever reasons) meeting the requisite eligibility criteria, are infact given the benefits to which they are entitled.

Additionally, these benefit recipients will not only pay out more as a percentage of their income than anyone else in society on food, clothing and fuel, they will, rather perversely, further erode whatever original benefit entitlement they had, through paying the taxes on these goods and services.

I think you will find, the unemployed on benefits, do care if prices increase, they care only too much.


and here, in the same post on page 5 as the quote from above, we have the invokation of hippies:

Just so the hippys can claim their saving the earth.
and still, this nugget still finds itself being put forward, again, by skeletonwoot, on page 5:

Besides all this is utter futility anyway as global warming / climate change is yet to be proven anyway.
So good he said it twice.

but there is some chink of light I can see within humanity as Morgan Freeman also see's the ridiculousness in skeletonwoots comment:

Morgan Freeman said:
skeletonw00t said:
Besides all this is utter futility anyway as global warming / climate change is yet to be proven anyway.
LOL.

Really?

and again, on page 5, they must be starting to feel safe now, seeing other comments aligning with their own deeply held prejudices, ianho gets in on the action:

Back on track now, the operator said, that's a shame, i could have 20% off my current water tariff! What another blow for the working man??

I know it's my water and i have wasted it, but why should i lump it for a 'can't be bothered'. I make no illusions, times are hard, but there are jobs out there, i know that for a fact. It's just in this society, people don't like the minimum wage.
Given what i have responded to above, I don't think we need to read me repeating myself. But for Nelson's benefit, seeing as he can't read the thread in conjunction with what i had originally posted, i include it here in the hope he learns something about comprehension and then going off to do your own research.


I hope this will suffice for now, it is currently 02:30 and I am bored now of explaining things that are right in front of your eyes.

And all on a thread about petrol prices :rolleyes:
 

dazzer1975

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29 Aug 2011
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46
skeletonw00t said:
Dazzer basically sums up the liberal wet wipe Guardian reader. Basically he is right - anyone else who disagree's is a racist Daily Mail reader. Oh but obviously, like any other liberal wet wipe - he won't have any real solutions of his own. Just leftist rhetoric that more than likely involves penalising anyone with a half decent work ethic & rewarding those who cannot be bothered to make a success of themselves.

About time this country wakes up to reality and not these looney leftist ideals populised by celebrities and incompetant job-for-life MP's.
Theres one thing I can say for your post's, they say more about you in an infinitely more succinct manner, than I ever could. :lol: :clap:
 

GreenNeedle

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Lincoln UK
dazzer1975 said:
page 3 supercoley1:
these days uninsured and un MOT'd wrecks containing a few europeans travel out to these jobs and the tranny vans are no more!!! (Not a generalised view either. I used to work at one (which I biked 9.5 miles to and from each day) and my job was to check the car park for tax discs!!! Got through some paper on that one!!!
Here is the example of bigotry, incase you can't work it out for yourself.

So, on a thread about fuel prices, we have a post about immigrants and illegality, how very refreshing.

I note the job was checking tax discs, not nationality, mot state or insurance (although I admit, insurance will be void if they knew there was no tax) yet we have here examples of un-roadworthy vehicles overladen with foreigners.

The lack of empirical evidence, is, I am sure, not much of a surprise.
Ask my Black Portuguese wife if I am a bigot, a racist, a xenophobe? She agrees with me r.e. the migrants from Europe. It was a trickle. It has turned into a flood. They were filling in the odd job and were very beneficial. they now provide governments reason to openly state 'They are doing jobs that Britons won't do' (and yes politicians from both sides have said exactly this comment in these exact words. I have not summised this from reading between lines nor did I even need them to tell me this.

As for the 'immigrants and illegality' I have no bones with the mmigrants. They are doing what we would do. Going to another country to find work. I have bones with the government old and new for allowing this to happen to fill in for those who will not work and should have been forced to do these jobs instead of being hidden away on 'disability benefit'.

Those who are genuininely unable to work due to disability etc I have no problem with. Those that are depressed, stressed, have continual pains that have not been diagnosed ever and leave all physicians stumped I have no time for. My Dad used to catch a fair few of them when he was an investigator but Labour chopped away half of his powers and he decided that he would no longer do the job as he was not allowed to do it properly.

When people above talk about unemplyed in benefit you know full well they do not mean those who are unfortunate to not be in work at this time. They mean those who have no intention of working. The £2 was an exaggeration and you know this too however you choose to take it as it is written and make a point. These scroungers (of which I would not consider myself one although I am currently unemplyed) will not work for the minimum wage. They will not work in the jobs that their demographic typicaly would have done in years gone by on the land, in the factories etc and those jobs are happily scooped up by the migrants. Not their fault. It is the authorities that should have got their shoe horns out of their holsters and prised these wasters off their Sofas. And if they wouldn't leave their Sofa then they should start to send the bailiffs in, removing their plasmas, Games consoles et al to pay toward the benefits they are getting. They should at least be banned from wasting their 'pitiful' benefits (as they would call them) on a taxi to the jobcentre and taxis every night to Ritzy nightclub!!! Vouchers instead of money would go some way to ensuring that these wastes of space are given enough to survive and not waste the majority on fags booze, taxis, Sky TV, new mobile phones (and associated high value contracts) and PS3 games etc.

No one is saying we should return to the old Britain where lack of H&S is a major danger and rights are minimal however people must start to realise that if the worker demands more, the company has to spend more, the product costs more and it can be a vicious circle where eventually the company cannot sell.

Where is my evidence?
Do you think I carry a notebook to take witness statements? Do you think I carry my camera around with me?

As I say I worked in a food factory before the EU migration started. In fact it was one of the largest factories of its kind in Europe I watched it go from a fully british workforce to where within 5 years there were no british below management level. do you really think all these people left of their own free will? No they wanted to work there but the wages gradually crept down to the min wage. That was moaned about but not the killer blow. Many of these people had worked together for years. A kind of community feeling however these factories are nearly always in the rural areas and for decades subsidised transit vans had collected the workers from the surrounding towns and citys. These transit vans were cancelled within one swoop and thet took out 45% of the shop floor. The british 45%. yes there were some left but they soon departed once all their colleagues from years had gone and they became the minority in a european workplace.

Of course the 100% british workforce did lose some naturally over that time. And it was indeed getting harder and harder to keep the numbers needed to run the factory as replacing these long term workers that left over that 5 years was getting harder and harder as the British replacement's mentality was such that you could not rely on them. Would be at least 1 day off sick a week and very high turnover hence why Europeans originally were taken on through agencies. To fill the gaps.

however once they did arrive and then the eastern Europeans the employers saw their chance to wipe out costs and wipe out the British. And that is exactly what they did.

So Don't believe what you read in the papers, what farmers will tell you, what Newsnight or Politicians will try to convince you of. The argument they don't work for less, because there is a minimum wage is not true at all. They do work for less because they do not enter the company pension saving the employer contributions. they get to work drive in their own agency transit vans (and yes some are untaxed and uninsured I never said they all were) hecnce saving the subsidising costs. They work For the minimum wage where the wage was higher than the minimum wage before they came. and they will work over 40 hours without argument. Doesn't matter that there is supposed to be no such thing as 'compulsory overtime' these factories will tell you at dinner time that you are working 2 hours longer that day. they may tell you that you MUST work on christmas and new year some years. Sometimes you are told you are working 60 hours this week. Of course it is within reason and not compulsory but it is something that they had a problem with when it was English workers that they do not now because the Europeans I used to speak to would be happy to work 100 hours a week because then they would've earnt enough in 1 year to go home and buy a new house for cash. This was their aim. Most had a 2 year objective. To work earn the money, go home.

Why have I gone onto this on a fuel thread.

All these things areinterlinked. British want more but don't want to pay for it. They want everything to be cheaper, want their wages to be higher etc. Should fuel duty go up? I'm not so sure. I would like to see the amount of lazy gets on the road reduced however I think there should be some consideration for those who 'need' to use fuel for their jobs. maybe some sort of system where those who use their car for work get a discount car or something where those who use it to drive 400 yards up the road to buy a packet of fags and a big mac do not get the discount? Maybe some way of a rebat at the end of the year for proof of milage for work purposes? I do not know. What I do know is there are far too many lazy British people who think that their time and energy is so important and would think they were so hard done by if they had to walk to the shops, school, use a bus etc like the generation (s) before us did.

Get your facts right before calling me a bigot. I though my my wife was a bigot. She says the English think they are so clever. You just proved she is in fact just stating facts!!! You are as bad as GB was pre election thinkng anyone who has an opinion that involves immigrants or migrants is a Bigot!!! I am not. I just want the lazy gets that I live amongst on this council estate to get off their arses and do some work. And it would be ideal if the Dover doors were closed so we could get those jobs back that we used to do (or at least I used to do)


Andy
 

dazzer1975

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SuperColey1 said:
Ask my Black Portuguese wife if I am a bigot, a racist, a xenophobe?
I know the ex treasurer of Veritas political party, he too is a bigot, and funnily enough, he has a brazilian wife.

What is it, the white man's burden? It is akin to I'm not racist, but... or I have black or asian friends, one even came to my wedding etc but...

She agrees with me r.e. the migrants from Europe. It was a trickle. It has turned into a flood. They were filling in the odd job and were very beneficial. they now provide governments reason to openly state 'They are doing jobs that Britons won't do' (and yes politicians from both sides have said exactly this comment in these exact words. I have not summised this from reading between lines nor did I even need them to tell me this.
I am sure she does agree with you, ah right, you don't think people can be bigoted or racist because they are from a foreign country, or if they have black skin and come from portugal?

If it is a bigoted view, then who it has come from is a bigot, it is immensely simple, much like your argument.

As for the 'immigrants and illegality' I have no bones with the mmigrants.
except your one reference to them was in a derogatory remark wrapped up in illegality and wrong doing and how somehow they have detracted or diminished the previous way of life the natives enjoyed.


They are doing what we would do. Going to another country to find work. I have bones with the government old and new for allowing this to happen
Say that then, instead you mentioned un mot'd cars that were not taxed and laden with eastern europeans traversing our highways and byways... see the problem? i doubt it.

to fill in for those who will not work and should have been forced to do these jobs instead of being hidden away on 'disability benefit'.
Ok, someone else needs a "big picture exposition" too I see.

The consistent policy of British governments throughout the 20th century has been about competing at the very top of the world stage in all matters, militarily, economically, diplomatically. the truth is, we lost our role as being globally relevant over 60 years ago. The trouble is, no one bothered to tell the English, or at least, the English politicians.

Thus we have a situation were we needed to increase the population, not to work in jobs that the feckless benefit claiming hidden on disability English wouldn't do, but to work in jobs per se alongside the english and whoever else happens to be here, basically to expand the workforce, not subsidise it (why have British citizens when short term economic migrants would do the job just as well?), to increase the tax revenue.

Those who are genuininely unable to work due to disability etc I have no problem with. Those that are depressed, stressed, have continual pains that have not been diagnosed ever and leave all physicians stumped I have no time for. My Dad used to catch a fair few of them when he was an investigator but Labour chopped away half of his powers and he decided that he would no longer do the job as he was not allowed to do it properly.
Jesus, you really are a small minded, bitter and mean spirited individual aren't you.

How do you decide what a genuine disability is? Who has decided that? Could it be the same people who have decided those with depression or constant pain, or whatever other issue they have? If so, why are they right in their diagnoses and treatment path for supercoley sanctioned disabilities, but they are wrong in supercoley non sanctioned illnesses.

Then of course there are these illnesses that have not been diagnosed. LMAO who the blahblahblahblah are you? How many doctors and patients have you discussed this particular problem with? I take it you are personally privvy to a statistically relevant sample sizing of patients and doctors and are involved and informed from initial doctor contact right through to conclusion of investigation and treatment?

Yer, I didn't think so.

The real irony here, is that you yourself admit to having received benefits for what? simply being out of work whose to say what the reason is, we only have your word for it... see the problem? You even found cause to defend your decision to claim those beenfits on this very thread, and you find it acceptable to perpetuate the same baseless assumptions and short sighted prejudices that you yourself have faced.

wow, it takes a very special person to do that.

When people above talk about unemplyed in benefit you know full well they do not mean those who are unfortunate to not be in work at this time.
Ahhh so there are deserving unemployed and undeserving unemployed?

Thanks, that clears a lot up for me.

It means your entire world view is based on bigoted, mis and ill informed prejudices usually based upon your knee jerk, automatic and un thought through political and social beliefs.


They mean those who have no intention of working.
Who are these people, have you personally consulted them, are you aware of even one person who you can provide the name of, that you understand their life history and how it led them to the place they are at today? What are this person's internal issues? the hopes, fears, beliefs, thoughts in relation to work, their circumstances, their past and what they think about all of it and more?

No, didn't think so.


The £2 was an exaggeration and you know this too however you choose to take it as it is written and make a point. These scroungers (of which I would not consider myself one although I am currently unemplyed)
Oh but of course, when you find yourself unemployed.. AND CLAIMING BENEFITS its the "others" its not "you" everyone means everyone else, they couldn't possibly be making sweeping generalisations about those who claim benefits, yet have the rationality, ability, subtle nuanced outlook to distinguish between one unemployed benefit claimant and another could they?

after all, what do they know about you as a human being and how you got to where you are today and what do they know about these "others" to be able to furnish themselves with an adequate position to be able to compare and contrast.


I think i have highlighted enough things now and a pattern is forming.

and for those who remain in any doubt, check out the last line:


SuperColey1 said:
And it would be ideal if the Dover doors were closed so we could get those jobs back that we used to do (or at least I used to do)


Andy
What's up? aren't you prepared to do the jobs that the lazy, benefit claiming, feckless, idle, english don't want to do? Too lazy to take any work, easier on benefits i suppose.

Only one thing worse than a bigot, a thick bigot.
 

GreenNeedle

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You should star up your own quango where you can take every generalisation as a belief of people(s). You can then dismiss everybody's social responsibilities and anyone who doesn't 'toe the line' has reasons internally (hopes fears etc.) to remove any cause to cal lthem lazy etc.

I am tired of hearing about 'lost generations' about social this and that. That 'lost generation' The 'eighties kids? By the look of your username you and indeed I are part of that 'lost generation'. I am not lost, are you? I may be mislaid at the moment but I will be found ;) Just as soon as I get a single reply from a single application instead of the abject ignorance that is the inability to reply en mass to failed applicants via e-mail :( however at least the reply will lift my spirits enough that someone has dained my CV to be worthy of a read for once.

Alas I do not interview all these dossers on my street. Nor do I ask the chap 2 doors up who gets a very tidy disbability benefit if they can clean my gutter while they have their ladder out. Alas if I did their limp may return as they can only stand on that leg for the length oftime it takes to clean their own gutter.

Alas the man across the street who gets allowance for a back pain that the doctors cannot cure if he can bring me a crate of Stella next time he goes. It may be too much for him to carry 2 crates on his shoulder.

However this is not just my bigoted view. I regularly see those whom I used to work with. Some working, some not, Some doing better work than they were at the factory, some doing worse but all agreed they would have still been there if the transport hadn't been removed.

These Bigots are just a small seciton of societey that has been long forgotten. After all they should all have learnt to drive and added yet more cars to the road howeverthinking about it to pay for the car and petrol they wouldn't have been able to continue in the factory job so I'm all confused now. Makes a little mockery there a bit of Catch22.

So whilst the Quangos want to label anyone who makes any argument whilst deciding that there is a valid reason for anything like this that needs more quango employess to investigate then we shall all await the outcome. No doubt that all people have a problem that is valid as to why they do not and have not worked for a long long time.

As for me championing my use of the benefits system. This is my 21st week on the dole. housing benefits included and I slip further and further into the mire of depression. I am stresssed to the hilt because of having to search for the jobs that aren't there whilst seeing loads of 'non jobs' like commission based selling. however I have re applied for McDs and Burger Kings and maybe I shal strike it lucky this time. Other than that I can hope that the retail assistants positions may reply whilst dreaming that the 12k admin asst (aka bog standard clerk as was) replies as that is my standard at the moment. Not aiming high, just wanting a job that is full time. pays anything and leads me out of this state of depression. although thinking about it I can surely go to your quango once it is setup and find I am in the prefect state to relieve myself of all social, and moral duty due to my situation ;)

What makes me laugh is I have just asked the job centre if I can go on the job program where they put you in placements or work trials. This is where they put you after 12 months. I have been on the dole for 5 weeks and I asked them. They told me I couldn't to which I basically (but more politely) told them it was ridiculous , why not, are you crazy. It was the first time I asume anyone had actually asked for them to do this because they rang me up next day to tell me that they could do it and would be contacting me with further details. So hopefully through my own pro-active nature I may well be working soon. Not for the want of trying because believe me I have made a lot of applications. zilch replies though.

As it happens the Anglian Water thing I didn't do. Partly because of the traditional moral way of being a little embarrased to be on benefits. Partly because I can't be bothered ;)

Our Great grandfathers would've disowned us for how we have become. For how posh we think we are. for how we want more than we can afford and then complain.

Anyway back to the grind. I have 5 applications to fill out this afternoon.

So if I am a Bigot for saying what I see, detailing what I know, detailing actual things that have really happened then so be it. Others call this experience, modern Britain calls it Bigotry.

And I shall not be detailing any names for you. Much as I would like your new Quango to be able to help these poor downtrodden souls in their hour of no need I am prevented from doing so for fear that I may get into trouble for actually disagrreing with their sorry thieveing, dependent way of life.
 

dazzer1975

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2011
Messages
46
SuperColey1 said:
You should star up your own quango where you can take every generalisation as a belief of people(s).
Alas I do not interview all these dossers on my street. Nor do I ask the chap 2 doors up who gets a very tidy disbability benefit if they can clean my gutter while they have their ladder out. Alas if I did their limp may return as they can only stand on that leg for the length oftime it takes to clean their own gutter.

Alas the man across the street who gets allowance for a back pain that the doctors cannot cure if he can bring me a crate of Stella next time he goes. It may be too much for him to carry 2 crates on his shoulder.

However this is not just my bigoted view. I regularly see those whom I used to work with. Some working, some not, Some doing better work than they were at the factory, some doing worse but all agreed they would have still been there if the transport hadn't been removed.
When was the last time you saw their income and where that income comes from. I don't mean the last time you heard it from someone as equally myopic as you, i literally mean when was the last time you saw documentary evidence of their income and its source, bank statements, p60's, share dividends, letters of notification of their benefit entitlement.

Not to mention this deep understanding of their personal medical situation.

And even then, what inside knowledge of their attitudes and outlooks are you specifically privvy to?

Thats right, you aren't.

but still, you carry on claiming benefits because you don't want to do jobs that i suspect you think are below you, while making your ill informed judgements about those you suspect of doing the same thing but have absolutely no evidence for it.

I think there is a reason you are unemployed, brain power is required in much of the workforce.

Oh, whats that? I don't know you or your personal circumstances, yer that's right, it's good innit.

Like I said before:

Truth is though, I'd probably be wasting my time, the kind of views expressed on this thread are usually so entrenched, despite being void of foundation, nothing will remove the scales from the eyes of those holding them.
 

Aquadream

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2010
Messages
393
Bloody hell guys. Why did you not meet in person to discuss this HOT subject rather than writing this bibles here?
Perhaps I can shed some little light on the subject.

Oil is one of the major economic substances in our era.
All of the most important commodities in our time (including oil) are misleadingly thought to be the necessary material for the modern world development and this is how it should be indeed.
BUT IT IS NOT. What it is then? Tools for creating slaves in modern days.
All most important commodities are controlled by one bank system or another as it is the oil on this planet.
Now since the very purpose of the banks very existence is to generate as much profit as possible those prices will never go down.
Let me explain why!
Because for the fuel prices to go down it is absolutely necessary to increase the production of goods in the country first. When the money used to buy the oil are made by producing goods the prices of oil will be equal only to the absolute amount that is paid for it.
But when the money used to buy oil are made out of thin air (generated by the banks computer system) then the price of oil will be equal to the amount paid plus the debth that the generated funds are adding to it.
With simple words.
If oil is paid with capital acquired from production of goods then the price of a gallon may be worth let say a 1£ for example.
If the oil is paid with bank generated funds the price of a gallon will be 1£ plus 1£ for covering the debt that the electronically generated pound is creating.

This is the very basics of inflation and it is the very reason that will prevent ever dropping of the fuel prices or any other price for that matter.

I would say that the one and only way for the prices to drop will be all people in the country (possible the whole world) stand together as one and say; We are not paying this price. Drop it or drink this bloody oil.
Needless to say that this is not going to happen.

dazzer1975 a little advice for you if you do not mind. Leave Supercooley1 alone. You are not going to win argument there. People that live on public funds for a long time do not really understand the value of hard earned cash with sweat and suffering. You will hear there a lot of theories, a lot of personal opinion, but all that will have little real estate value as it does not originate from real experience, but reading books, listening talks and making a lot of assumptions.
It is quite similar to the computer generated funds I am talking about. They seem to be helpful at a time, but adding a lot of depth and cost just like all benefit seekers.

The conclusion.
Do not fight over this or anything else or be against each other over pointless little things. As long as the current system exists we are all going to loose.
The fuel prices will never drop, but this kind of bubbling will most certainly produce a lot of enemies on every side.
 

GreenNeedle

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2007
Messages
2,720
Location
Lincoln UK
Oh Aquadream. I am glad you understand how all I believe is Gospel. Maybe you can convince me that it is true :) as I am open minded enough to know that I am not always right. Indeed I have been wrong before..........I think. lol

However do read before you castigate me as someone looking from within with no idea of what is outside.

People that live on public funds for a long time do not really understand the value of hard earned cash with sweat and suffering.
Considering I am 36 yet have been on the 'public funds' only for the last 20 weeks, which I have stated in this thread a couple of times you can work out I fully know th value of hard earned cash. Indeed simple maths means 36 years minus school days = 20 years minus 20 weeks. I think that makes just over 19 and a half years or is it 5? can't remember what 2+2 is so I shall trust someone else's maths for this toughie.

That is unless you refer to my mentioning of tax credits which are also public funds however all of us (apart from those on super dooper salaries) have been enjoying those so we can now envelop all of us into the not knowing the value of hard earned cash because we've all been getting that freebie top up. And we all now accept it, or more to the point we expect it and think it is necessary. Something that we are entitled to.

So Aquadream, If you read through I have been arguing the opposite, that while others bemoan how tight their money is I do not. I live within my means (albeit with a recent history of doing the opposite and learning from that mistake.) It is the others that suggest we are actually suffering whilst I suggest that we have it too good and would not know suffering if it hit us straight in the face.

Personally it would be great if others could take advice off me and follow my examples. I will give you one for free:

Copy me and wear the same set of clothes for the whole week. do not shower or bath. this not only means you only need 2 sets of clothes saving a fortune but also saves you on water. saves you the gas to heat that water and saves you electricity and water from less washing ;) I must admit (ashamedly) that I do keep a spare pair of boxers in case of accidents ;)
So a snippet of my genus there. For the rest you will have to buy the book.

So please read what I type. I do enjoy you putting me down but try to read first to see what my argument is before taking the opposite side. You have chosen to argue with me yet are arguing on the same vain as I have been which is quite amusing. lol

It is also quite amusing how so many people are so serious that they take everything I say word for word without seeing that I am actually lampooning myself whilst trying to point out what I believe. Yes I do believe there are huge swathes of the British Citizenship who will do almost anything to stay on benefits rather than working. I know many. They will openly tell me that they think being told to do a 13 week placement or lose their benefits is against their human rights. Is slave labour. That they are being made to work for nothing, for free. Not that they are having to prove that they are worthy of the benefits.

And we all know that a lot of people a large number not just a little minority think they are the Jones' let alone try to keep up with the Jones'. They are the 'must have now' brigade that include Sky TV and the latest iphones as necessities and part of the cost of living!!!

Food and heating vs what my mate Dave thinks of me? Hmmm. I think I'll put the coat on turn the heating off and eat plastic packages from Iceland then I can go for the flashy phone and invite everybods round for the ManU chelsea game. Cost of living is extreme these days. lol

However I do make fun of my own situation. Maybe it takes my mind of the boredom. And I am not looking for a good job. I am looking for A job that i CAN do. however responses are rare and patience is a virtue I struggle with so I do get a little down here and there. So good to read other people's posts to cheer me up ;) I like being told that the UK is not as bad as it seems to be :)

Forgive the typos. I am typing with one hand because the baby is in the other arm ;)

Andy
 

Nelson

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2008
Messages
2,551
Location
Norfolk
dazzer1975 said:
Given what i have responded to above, I don't think we need to read me repeating myself. But for Nelson's benefit, seeing as he can't read the thread in conjunction with what i had originally posted, i include it here in the hope he learns something about comprehension and then going off to do your own research.


I hope this will suffice for now, it is currently 02:30 and I am bored now of explaining things that are right in front of your eyes.
Wow dazzer,you wrote all that for me :D .You're too kind,I feel like we've become friends ;) .
But as I stated before,theres too many different opinions on the internet and,god forbid :woot: ,they may not be of the same opinion as you and I wouldn't be able to comprehend that.
So I'll decline the option of doing my own research as I'm sure you're right and they'd be wrong.
Also,thanks to you,I've learnt loads,arrogance,hypocrisy,bigotry,narcissism,fundamental attribution error and actor-observer asymmetry .
To name just a few things,and I sincerely thank you for the lesson you've given me.
Please don't feel the need to stay up until 2.30am just for me.

Sleep well "dear friend".

p.s......Have you ever read anything by Alfred Adler ?.
 
Joined
26 Oct 2008
Messages
1,646
Location
Cheshire
Hi Gang@UKaps

The goverment will not put a hold on fuel prices, if they did this would reduce the fuel duty revenue - what amazes me is that they keep banging on about electric car - you still need to burn fossel fuel to generate the electricity to power the cars and another way to look at it: for those people using electric / hybrid cars who are not paying any road tax or a small amount which is a loss to the goverment we who are running petrol or diesel powered cars are making up the shortfall.

After reading the comments of page 11 & 12 - there is only one thing I would like to "Get A LIFE".

Regards
Paul.
 

Aquadream

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2010
Messages
393
Dolly Sprint 16v said:
Hi Gang@UKaps

The goverment will not put a hold on fuel prices, if they did this would reduce the fuel duty revenue - what amazes me is that they keep banging on about electric car - you still need to burn fossel fuel to generate the electricity to power the cars and another way to look at it: for those people using electric / hybrid cars who are not paying any road tax or a small amount which is a loss to the goverment we who are running petrol or diesel powered cars are making up the shortfall.

After reading the comments of page 11 & 12 - there is only one thing I would like to "Get A LIFE".

Regards
Paul.
Thumbs up :thumbup: . All that can happen while this discussion is going on is those prices to only go up. :D
 

a1Matt

Member
Joined
10 Mar 2008
Messages
2,497
Location
Bromley
Aquadream said:
All that can happen while this discussion is going on is those prices to only go up. :D
:lol:

I think they've gone up about 5p a litre (local to me) since this thread started :thumbdown:
 
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