Plant rot

[Roediger]

Hello just seeking info on notrate levels and to clear my head a little more on the matter.

Can high nitrate cause plants to rot on the bottom, Lets say 80 ppm? I have co2 and my light is around low lighting. I judge this by my anubias showing no sign of algea. Before it did worh higher settings.

My montecarlo was having big leaves now seems to shrink. I have co2 and dosing ei. Could the light affect the size? Or algae building up from it growing slow

Thank you.

 

[ceg4048]

Can high nitrate cause plants to rot on the bottom

No.

Lets say 80 ppm?

No.

I have co2 and my light is around low lighting.

It is more than likely that you actually have Low CO2 and High Lighting.
Everyone seems to think they have high CO2 and low lighting, but the plants always tell you the truth.

Plants rotting on the bottom means that the plant is suffering poor CO2.
Depending on the type of algae, the cause will be a nutrient deficiency.

Our job is to determine WHY there are symptoms of poor CO2, or symptoms of poor nutrition even though we are injecting (what we think is) lot's of CO2 and even though we are dosing EI.

Neither EI dosing nor CO2 injection by itself can solve or prevent all problems. The tank must be cleaned and maintained properly and the nutrition and gas must be delivered effectively. 90% of the CO2 we inject goes straight out the top of the tank. The plant beds therefore only receive about 10% of what we inject. This means we really have to pay attention to how we deliver the gas and nutrition.

Typically, the reason for this paradox is poor flow and/or poor distribution of the flow.
Suggest that you review your filter output configuration as well as your method of CO2 dissolution.



FYI, here is an example of plants which were dosed with approximately 100ppm per week of NO3 and 10ppm PO4 per week with excellent CO2/flow/distribution.
Nutrient loading cannot be blamed for poor growth performance.

Cheers,

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

What substrate are you using? Some say if it goes anearobic the roots can rot but knowing more about your lighting and water movement will tell more, a picture of the tank ideally. One of the reasons people dose EI is so they can forget about the fertiliser part and concentrate on the other two so if you do have 80ppm Nitrate which you wouldn't really know, (Please don't mention test kits while Clive AKA Ceg is about ) happy days. That's one less thing for you to worry about and you eliminate that from your enquiries.

 

[Roediger]

This is awesome news sir Clive you have made my day. As you are the person i hoped to respond to my post lol. I have made changes to my tank because of your posts . So with that being said ty for killong my doubt!

I made my own spray bar out of pvc and made it longer Like 26 in lonng

My substrate is eco complete. I dont plan on using this again. All my original plants suffered when changed from gravel to this. Any suggestion or alternative to ada as its expensive. Love the results in my 10gal with ada.

I have a finnex planted+ 24/7 i took it down from max settings as my anubias had algea . S repens had algae , and my moss always burned. Only thing that grows well is bacopa and my rotala indica.

Its a 29 gal 30 long height 18 inch.

This is my filter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MGX7JXA/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I read that all the filter floss it brings slows rate down, Is this true?

If i raise co2 anymore my fish look like thay are gasping at the top. I made alot of surface agitation since I joined this site. I did see some bba on my eco complete, but that was on 1 rock

 

[Roediger]

forgot to add i also have live stock which i forgot to mention. in my 10 gal i have live shrimp, but some person on FB said they can't stand high nitrate also

 

[Roediger]

No.
the algae I have grows on anubias and repens. which look at the start like GSA but then it spreads and looks darker. thank you

No.


It is more than likely that you actually have Low CO2 and High Lighting.
Everyone seems to think they have high CO2 and low lighting, but the plants always tell you the truth.

Plants rotting on the bottom means that the plant is suffering poor CO2.
Depending on the type of algae, the cause will be a nutrient deficiency.

Our job is to determine WHY there are symptoms of poor CO2, or symptoms of poor nutrition even though we are injecting (what we think is) lot's of CO2 and even though we are dosing EI.

Neither EI dosing nor CO2 injection by itself can solve or prevent all problems. The tank must be cleaned and maintained properly and the nutrition and gas must be delivered effectively. 90% of the CO2 we inject goes straight out the top of the tank. The plant beds therefore only receive about 10% of what we inject. This means we really have to pay attention to how we deliver the gas and nutrition.

Typically, the reason for this paradox is poor flow and/or poor distribution of the flow.
Suggest that you review your filter output configuration as well as your method of CO2 dissolution.



FYI, here is an example of plants which were dosed with approximately 100ppm per week of NO3 and 10ppm PO4 per week with excellent CO2/flow/distribution.
Nutrient loading cannot be blamed for poor growth performance.

Cheers,

 

[Roediger]

No.


No.


It is more than likely that you actually have Low CO2 and High Lighting.
Everyone seems to think they have high CO2 and low lighting, but the plants always tell you the truth.

Plants rotting on the bottom means that the plant is suffering poor CO2.
Depending on the type of algae, the cause will be a nutrient deficiency.

Our job is to determine WHY there are symptoms of poor CO2, or symptoms of poor nutrition even though we are injecting (what we think is) lot's of CO2 and even though we are dosing EI.

Neither EI dosing nor CO2 injection by itself can solve or prevent all problems. The tank must be cleaned and maintained properly and the nutrition and gas must be delivered effectively. 90% of the CO2 we inject goes straight out the top of the tank. The plant beds therefore only receive about 10% of what we inject. This means we really have to pay attention to how we deliver the gas and nutrition.

Typically, the reason for this paradox is poor flow and/or poor distribution of the flow.
Suggest that you review your filter output configuration as well as your method of CO2 dissolution.



FYI, here is an example of plants which were dosed with approximately 100ppm per week of NO3 and 10ppm PO4 per week with excellent CO2/flow/distribution.
Nutrient loading cannot be blamed for poor growth performance.

Cheers,

 

[AndreiD]

Looking at your plants you have 100 % CO2 issues

 

[Roediger]

how can i fix this then? i have the spray bar shooting straight across... i have an inline diffuser which is attached to the outtake tube. i feel if i raise it anymore fish will start to gasp. some fish go up for air. but when i see my neon tetras go up for air. that's my indication thats its too high. i even start co2 about 1.30hr ahead of time to get a green checker. yesterday saw bba on my rocks. from what i have read that's a fluctuation of co2. Clive mentioned to check filter issues. gona do that today, prolly take some filter floss pads out since each tray has 1 and theres 5 trays

 

[Edvet]

If you feel you can't raise CO2, lower the lightlevel and/or look at distribution.

 

[Roediger]

The light i lowered not too long ago see how that works out. Distribution i have a spray bar shooting across. Most i can think is raising surface movement to increase co2. Then i would be wasting more also no?

 

[Edvet]

Lower the water and see if the jets hit the frontpane? The configuration seems good, but it still might be a distribution problem.

 

[ian_m]

For decent CO2 distribution you are looking at trying to get water jet across the whole width of the tank hitting the front pane as in picture below. This is a sideways view of my Vision 180 with the water level 1/2 way down during a water change.

 

[EmannAquarium]

hi Ian_m...to which level is the spray bar then immersed in water...mine is fully immersed and at the end I would doubt that the water is able to reach the front pane...in that case should the spray bar be relocated to a higher level pls or just leave it immersed under the water.

 

[Edvet]

Rasing above the level is for testing purposes only, to measure strength of the jets

 

[Roediger]

ok guys ty will test. now what about water temp. mine is 71 atm, should it be higher? read that plants have higher metabolism at higher temp is this true also?

 

[Roediger]

well fellas, you were right. my spray bar shoots only halfway to the glass LOL. guess my filter power ain't good enough. it's a sunsun 265 gph. what do you guys recommend for good flow canister wise or another method please?

 

[ceg4048]

I read that all the filter floss it brings slows rate down, Is this true?
Well
If i raise co2 anymore my fish look like thay are gasping at the top. I made alot of surface agitation since I joined this site. I did see some bba on my eco complete, but that was on 1 rock

Hi mate,
A 265GPH should be enough for a 30G tank so I'm wondering whether the spraybar may be too long and whether the holes are too small.
The problem with your filter most likely however, is that you mat have stuffed it with too much media.

If you have floss and/or ceramic then this slows the flow rate down tremendously.

I would gradually remove all that stuff and replace it with simple coarse foam or even chopped up pot scrbbers. Some folks like to use alpha gog, which is also cheap.

By reducing the amount of media you will improve the flow by quite a bit.

Try that first and then if it does not help substantially, then consider shortening the spraybar.

What is the inside diameter of the spraybar, tubing and pump outlet?
Are there any kinked hoses in the circuit? sometimes the hoses kink out of view which reduces the flow rate.

I assume you have an in-line reactor for your CO2?


By the way, there is nothing wrong with EcoComplete, other than the fact that it is rediculously overpriced.
Shrimp do not care about nitrates. They only care about the things in the tank that result in high nitrate such as overfeeding and dirty water.

Cheers,

 

[Roediger]

Hi Clive! thanks for your response on shrimp keeping!

I do have ceramics in my tank... Bio balls also. the tank has one foam at the bottom, then a filter floss. tray 2 has ceramics , tray 3 bio balls , tray 4 floss again.

I am glad you guys mentioned the spray bar as i have more pipe. maybe this time i will mark the holes and make them straight lol. the holes are small Clive as I thought "If i make the holes small, I can make the tube long with enough pressure coming out even. I will experiment making the holes bigger on the one that's there now. if it doesn't work not I will make a shorter one and experiment with holes also.

on saturday I will start the process of taking out media. one tray at a time and replace it with plastic scrubbers from the dollar store =) or use fluval coarse pads.

 

[ceg4048]

Yes, it does require quite a bit of experimentation to get the spraybar matched to the rest of the filter's water flow circuit.
The basic approach is to ensure that the sum total area of all the holes equals or slightly exceeds the cross sectional area of the spraybar.
Use the formula (3.14)x(radius)x(radius)
So for example, if you drill 4mm diameter holes each hole will have an area of: (3.14)x(2mm)x(2mm) = 12.6 square mm
If you drill 10 of those holes, then the total area is 10x12.6 = 126 sq. mm
If your spraybar has an inside diameter of 16mm then it's cross sectional are is (3.14)x(8mm)x(8mm) = 201 sq. mm

Comparing these numbers, you can see that there the holes either need to be enlarged so that their sum = 201 sq. mm or that more holes are needed to achieve 201 sq. mm.

If you want to stay with 10 holes then each hole needs to be (201 sq. mm) / 10 = 20.1 sq. mm per hole.
Go back to the formula:
20.1 sq. mm = (3.14)x(radius)x(radius)
20.1/3.14 = radius squared
6.4mm = radius sq.
2.5mm = radius
5mm = diameter per hole

If you want to add holes then of course each hole can be smaller and you use the same formula 201 sq. mm / N where "N" is the number of holes and then you do the same calculation. You don't have to be super precise with these numbers because of course, it depends on the drill bits that you have.

It would be nice but it isn't necessary to cover the entire length of the tank so don't worry too much about that. It's OK if there is a couple of inches gap on either end. Just try to make the 2 gaps more or less equal.

@ian_m can give you more hints based on his vision 180.

Also have a look at this recent thread https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...er-do-i-need-to-buy-smaller-spray-bars.50977/

Cheers,