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Pea puffer and algae eaters.

pseudodiego

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2021
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59
Location
Spain
Hey everyone!

I'm preparing a 21 gallon heavily planted tank where I'm planning to introduce between 6 and 8 pea puffer(Two males and the rest females).

So, are they compatible with any kind of algae eaters? Amanos? Nerite Snails? Otocinclus? Neocaridinas?

I would like opinions from people that have actually keep them, as I think there is a lot of false information out there about the pea puffers.

Thanks!
 
They are barely compatible with each other, as small and as cute as they are as big is their ego. They are or more to say once sexually mature they become extremely territorial and dominant and also can become aggressive to other species. There is absolutely no guarantee on how and to what degree an individual will develop this.

They are exclusively dependent on life food, maybe frozen life food will do but they can be picky and they do hunt shrimp fry. Snails are actually their prefered diet, they can and will kill snails of any size known to us.

Regarding compatibility, it can go either way if it has a docile character you might get lucky and still this can switch to aggressive in an instant. Because they are dominant and territorial they might not accept other species invading their space. If they get grumpy about it they won't shy away from a fight to the death.

Anyway, I experienced them as extremely cute and potential little aggressive psychopathic monsters. They will own the tank and do what they like, once matured in nature they seem to like to live solitary. Then 6 or more individuals in 100 litres footprint is a tad cramped up for something territorial like this. You might end up with a frustrated bunch constantly fighting and chasing each other around.
 
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They are barely compatible with each other, as small and as cute as they are as big is their ego. They are or more to say once sexually mature they become extremely territorial and dominant and also can become aggressive to other species. There is absolutely no guarantee on how and to what degree an individual will develop this.

They are exclusively dependent on life food, maybe frozen life food will do but they can be picky and they do hunt shrimp fry. Snails are actually their prefered diet, they can and will kill snails of any size known to us.

Regarding compatibility, it can go either way if it has a docile character you might get lucky and still this can switch to aggressive in an instant. Because they are dominant and territorial they might not accept other species invading their space. If they get grumpy about it they won't shy away from a fight to the death.

Anyway, I experienced them as extremely cute and potential little aggressive psychopathic monsters. They will own the tank and do what they like, once matured in nature they seem to like to live solitary. Then 6 or more individuals in 100 litres footprint is a tad cramped up for something territorial like this. You might end up with a frustrated bunch constantly fighting and chasing each other around.

How many did you keep?

According to this article they do get really aggressive when didn't keep in large enough numbers, due to stress. They seem to live in very large shoals in nature:

 
I started with 3 juvenile puffers in a 100-litre tank... It takes them some time to develop and reach sexual maturity, actually, it seems they are all born asexual and are indistinguishable from each other and only good luck guess to figure out what is what. During this period they still bond and get along and school together for protection. Once sexual mature they separate establish territory and go on living solitarily. They are fierce little warriors, looking clumsy but can be extremely fast and agile and defend their territory against any kind of invaders. Females are generally only accepted seasonal if not ready to mate it also will be considered a threat and be chased out.

I had 1 die on me rather soon after purchase and only 2 survived... Both turned out to be males and after a few weeks even with enough broken lines of sight, the 100-litre tank was too small for them. Their territory extends a larger footprint so they kept crossing each other's path. It really looked like they were luring each other into ambush and constantly busy chasing each other around. In the end, the strongest one will end up killing the weaker one chased to fatigue and stress. Before this happened I took them apart and gave both a separate tank. The subdominant one I did put in a small tank of its own. The most dominant one I kept in the 100-litre tank. He had 10 Highfin barbs and 8 Pumila gourami and about 15 Hara Jerdoni as tank mates. The Jerdoni's live mainly in hiding I rarely saw them myself.

At first, it seemed ok, Master Puffy went its own way not paying much attention to the others. Now my second mistake was the Puffy x Pumila combination. Because once Pumila goes nesting the male decides where to nest and becomes territorial as well. When Puffy came near the nesting site Papa Pumila would chase it away. Papa Pumila only did this 3 or 4 times and Master Puffy thought "Do you want to play? Then let's turn the tables!" The monster was awoken Puffy declared war on Papa Pumila and started chasing Papa Pumila instead relentlessly and finally killed him. Not really physically but a constantly harassed fish that gets too little rest can die from stress and it did. After that, he considered every other Pumila in this tank as a threat as well and kept on chasing them one after the other. Pick a victim hunt it to damnation and pick the next one. So Master Puffy forced me to rehome all my Pumila's to another tank.

I'll be darned Master Puffy got a taste of it it didn't take long and he started to chase around the Highfin barbs. The same procedure picks one, keeps hunting it till it collapses from fatigue and goes on to the next one. Master Puffy was really a little hateful blahblahblahblahblahblahblah claiming a 100-litre tank for its own. Finally, I decided to rehome Master Puffy. Which he didn't take lightly in his new tank he got even more frustrated reacting skittish to me coming to close what he had never done before and one day jumped out and committed suicide.

As said snails are on their diet and they also kill snails just for the kill, they are very sloppy, kill a snail and leaf half of it laying on the bottom and kill the next one. I once did put a mature pond snail in the tank that was 10x the size of Master Puffy, he kept on biting chunks out of it till it was dead. And he doesn't eat what is dead.

With this experience, I came to the conclusion never again, Pea Puffers as cute as they are do not belong in captivity. They belong in nature. Their personality and behaviour are astonishing and it might be they are intelligent as dolphins are. Their character exceeds their body size by a factor million. Absolutely unsuitable for community setups. Species-only setups with a very large footprint maybe starting at 250 litres might be easier.

Could be yours is going to be a success story, there are success stories out there keeping Pea Puffers. Misleading is, human nature I guess, people don't like to report and document horror stories, disasters and failures. These are mostly swept silently under the rug. Leaving us with finding a majority of success stories on the internet. But buying and keeping Pea Puffers for community setups will be a role with the dice you never know what you get.



 
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I’d like someone to keep these in say a 6 foot tank with a huge number of fish and see how they behave. Most people Chuck them in nano tanks and it certainly doesn’t work. I tried them in a 3 foot and had to return them to the lfs as they attacked each other and nipped the fins of all the other fish in the tank. They’re a great fish but are certainly specialist in their requirements.
 
I started with 3 juvenile puffers in a 100-litre tank... It takes them some time to develop and reach sexual maturity, actually, it seems they are all born asexual and are indistinguishable from each other and only good luck guess to figure out what is what. During this period they still bond and get along and school together for protection. Once sexual mature they separate establish territory and go on living solitarily. They are fierce little warriors, looking clumsy but can be extremely fast and agile and defend their territory against any kind of invaders. Females are generally only accepted seasonal if not ready to mate it also will be considered a threat and be chased out.

I had 1 die on me rather soon after purchase and only 2 survived... Both turned out to be males and after a few weeks even with enough broken lines of sight, the 100-litre tank was too small for them. Their territory extends a larger footprint so they kept crossing each other's path. It really looked like they were luring each other into ambush and constantly busy chasing each other around. In the end, the strongest one will end up killing the weaker one chased to fatigue and stress. Before this happened I took them apart and gave both a separate tank. The subdominant one I did put in a small tank of its own. The most dominant one I kept in the 100-litre tank. He had 10 Highfin barbs and 8 Pumila gourami and about 15 Hara Jerdoni as tank mates. The Jerdoni's live mainly in hiding I rarely saw them myself.

At first, it seemed ok, Master Puffy went its own way not paying much attention to the others. Now my second mistake was the Puffy x Pumila combination. Because once Pumila goes nesting the male decides where to nest and becomes territorial as well. When Puffy came near the nesting site Papa Pumila would chase it away. Papa Pumila only did this 3 or 4 times and Master Puffy thought "Do you want to play? Then let's turn the tables!" The monster was awoken Puffy declared war on Papa Pumila and started chasing Papa Pumila instead relentlessly and finally killed him. Not really physically but a constantly harassed fish that gets too little rest can die from stress and it did. After that, he considered every other Pumila in this tank as a threat as well and kept on chasing them one after the other. Pick a victim hunt it to damnation and pick the next one. So Master Puffy forced me to rehome all my Pumila's to another tank.

I'll be darned Master Puffy got a taste of it it didn't take long and he started to chase around the Highfin barbs. The same procedure picks one, keeps hunting it till it collapses from fatigue and goes on to the next one. Master Puffy was really a little hateful blahblahblahblahblahblahblah claiming a 100-litre tank for its own. Finally, I decided to rehome Master Puffy. Which he didn't take lightly in his new tank he got even more frustrated reacting skittish to me coming to close what he had never done before and one day jumped out and committed suicide.

As said snails are on their diet and they also kill snails just for the kill, they are very sloppy, kill a snail and leaf half of it laying on the bottom and kill the next one. I once did put a mature pond snail in the tank that was 10x the size of Master Puffy, he kept on biting chunks out of it till it was dead. And he doesn't eat what is dead.

With this experience, I came to the conclusion never again, Pea Puffers as cute as they are do not belong in captivity. They belong in nature. Their personality and behaviour are astonishing and it might be they are intelligent as dolphins are. Their character exceeds their body size by a factor million. Absolutely unsuitable for community setups. Species-only setups with a very large footprint maybe starting at 250 litres might be easier.

Could be yours is going to be a success story, there are success stories out there keeping Pea Puffers. Misleading is, human nature I guess, people don't like to report and document horror stories, disasters and failures. These are mostly swept silently under the rug. Leaving us with finding a majority of success stories on the internet. But buying and keeping Pea Puffers for community setups will be a role with the dice you never know what you get.



The problem might have been having just two of them. As with african cyclids, the path to success might be overstocking them a bit to spread the aggression.

Where have you read about them being solitary fish once they are adult? I can't find any reputable source that comfirm that.

I think I'll go with 8 and make a journal about it, trying different algae eaters. If it ends in a complete disaster at least other people will know that that way doesn't work either.
 
I’ve tried telling people on here before, you can keep a singular pea puffer in a smaller tank (maybe 45p at least).
They’re incredibly intelligent fish and need good stimulus to thrive, but it’s more than doable.
Naturally because we’re human we have an assumption that we need to keep them with a little “friend”, this isn’t true.

Give them plenty to explore and a live food to hunt, and they’re going to be one happy little fish.
 
IMO this isn’t the path to any success and there’s nothing worse than seeing a tank packed with really active fish all bumping into one another.
And spreading aggression isn’t stopping it, it’s only mitigating having one fish being harassed.
Those are two centimeters fish, even smaller that neon tetras. 8 in a 20 gallon would make the tank look pretty empty. Maybe over stocking wasn't the correct word. More like making sure that there is a correct number for a shoaling species. Same as you just don't put just 3 angelfish together.
 
Those are two centimeters fish, even smaller that neon tetras. 8 in a 20 gallon would make the tank look pretty empty. Maybe over stocking wasn't the correct word. More like making sure that there is a correct number for a shoaling species. Same as you just don't put just 3 angelfish together.
You was talking about African cichlids? Where has two centimetres come from?
 
I’ve tried telling people on here before, you can keep a singular pea puffer in a smaller tank (maybe 45p at least).
They’re incredibly intelligent fish and need good stimulus to thrive, but it’s more than doable.
Naturally because we’re human we have an assumption that we need to keep them with a little “friend”, this isn’t true.

Give them plenty to explore and a live food to hunt, and they’re going to be one happy little fish.
If they're indeed a shoaling species as the videos show, that's certainly not a good way to have them. Would you put a single tetra by itself? They would get pretty stressed.

You was talking about African cichlids? Where has two centimetres come from?
Around two centimeters is the adult size of the Pea puffer. The fish that I want to keep in the 20 gallon.
 
Where have you read about them being solitary fish once they are adult?

I've lost tons of bookmarks with an unfortunate HDD crash unable to recover any... It's a few years ago and did a lot of reading on the pea puffer. But I would need to do an extensive search to find it all back, not even knowing if the site with the article is still available. Domains on the internet come and go or change addresses, when the domain fee is no longer paid complete articles get deleted and disappear. I know what I did read and it might still be out there but can not guide you to the location. SO you have to take my word for it or not, that's up to you... :)

In general, being dominant and territorial usually goes hand in hand with being solitary. That doesn't mean it never mingles with groups of similar species or doesn't migrate or else it couldn't find a mate. But nature is something different that a bucket of water with plants in a 90x40x40cm footprint. Going your own way and finding peace as a little dominant and territorial puffer is impossible in such a cramped-up space. And might lead to frustrations and unhappy fish.

I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't do just sharing experiences and some personal opinions developed from this. And opinions are not facts... Also can't know if all information on the internet or even in biology books is factual or strictly applicable to all scenarios most of it are mainly theories. If you experience it differently then it is what it is and you are entitled to disbelieve and make your own.

I think I'll go with 8 and make a journal about it, trying different algae eaters. If it ends in a complete disaster at least other people will know that that way doesn't work either.
Roll the dice and good luck... :)
 
Around two centimeters is the adult size of the Pea puffer. The fish that I want to keep in the 20 gallon.
Yeah I get that mate, but you said the path to success may be overstocking them like African cichlids, in which I said that’s not the path to any success, there’s nothing worse than seeing that.

Also having kept several pufferfish species myself (including pea puffers) I’d say 8 in a 20 gallon is overstocked (generally speaking) (there are always the exceptions as with any fish in this hobby, where by people have had luck doing different)
 
Yeah I get that mate, but you said the path to success may be overstocking them like African cichlids, in which I said that’s not the path to any success, there’s nothing worse than seeing that.

Also having kept several pufferfish species myself (including pea puffers) I’d say 8 in a 20 gallon is overstocked (generally speaking) (there are always the exceptions as with any fish in this hobby, where by people have had luck doing different)
Frankly I never keep african Cyclids. I had just hear about them being keep overstocked to curb agression, but my opinion might be wrong on that.

About the puffer, I think starting with a bigger number will give me a bigger chance of success. With 8 I might get a decent number of females, and if they really get aggresive, I can trade the males to get a good ratio of males - females. If I get just six and I end needing to remove some males, I end with less than six. And if they are indeed a shoaling species, which I really think they are, that might be too few for them to feel really comfortable.
 
I'd like to chime in, but it's sadly not going to be news you want to hear.

I've been keeping lil puffers since about 2019, and they've been not fun. They're not a nano fish, and while yes a group is required, if they don't have space to swim it's a bit of a prison. They're not fully reliant on live food, but you will have to feed frozen food, mine have never accepted anything frozen other than bloodworm so I had to keep live food cultures. They will not take any form of pellet/flake. It's not mature fish that are the issue in my experience though, as they get slow with age. It's the young ones. Brutal little f***ers. That will chase down any that come by.

Males are not normally the aggressive fish, as in no more aggressive that females. You're rolling dice as it takes a while to see what gender they are.

If you can house them appropriately like a 160cm tank, then I think a shoal would work nicely. if you look at the wild videos of them, they are shoaling species.

Shrimp are generally safe, but any under 6mm or so are food. Start a pond in a shed/greenhouse now with some snails, you'll need millions.

After all this, what I'm trying to say is they're a specialist fish, an investment of time, difficult to feed and need a very specific tank. They're not fussy about water, but they do jump (when chased). Also, they will fight over food, meaning busted lips can happen, possibly leading to infection and death.

Great character fish, clearly recognises you. I think they're also prone to boredom.
 
Exactly as above, they need space, they’re very active and very intelligent, a good sand bed is also great as they like to bury themselves when spooked.

I’ve said it plenty times before. They can be kept as a single fish, given a good amount of swimming/exploring space.

If people really want to keep a smaller pufferfish that can be kept in a community tank or a species only with a little group of them, then keep the South American puffer/Amazon Puffer Colomesus Asellus.
 
I'd like to chime in, but it's sadly not going to be news you want to hear.

I've been keeping lil puffers since about 2019, and they've been not fun. They're not a nano fish, and while yes a group is required, if they don't have space to swim it's a bit of a prison. They're not fully reliant on live food, but you will have to feed frozen food, mine have never accepted anything frozen other than bloodworm so I had to keep live food cultures. They will not take any form of pellet/flake. It's not mature fish that are the issue in my experience though, as they get slow with age. It's the young ones. Brutal little f***ers. That will chase down any that come by.

Males are not normally the aggressive fish, as in no more aggressive that females. You're rolling dice as it takes a while to see what gender they are.

If you can house them appropriately like a 160cm tank, then I think a shoal would work nicely. if you look at the wild videos of them, they are shoaling species.

Shrimp are generally safe, but any under 6mm or so are food. Start a pond in a shed/greenhouse now with some snails, you'll need millions.

After all this, what I'm trying to say is they're a specialist fish, an investment of time, difficult to feed and need a very specific tank. They're not fussy about water, but they do jump (when chased). Also, they will fight over food, meaning busted lips can happen, possibly leading to infection and death.

Great character fish, clearly recognises you. I think they're also prone to boredom.

Mmm that was what I was looking for. Someone that have actual keep them in a group.

You would 't recommend them for a 20 gallon then?
 
I don’t think I’d recommend them at all to anyone 😕 they’ve been really stressful fish for me, and my assumptions about them were wrong when I got them (internet is often kinda wrong).

I’m really quite experienced with fish, and I lost about 1/3 of these over time. It still makes me a bit sad.

My puffer journey:

3 in 30l (2 ganged up on 1)
4 in 60l (I should have given up here, lost 2 to jumping)
6 in a 75l (not bad, but not big enough, again losing two - the two biggest)
8 in 120l (added 2 more, I lost two due to lip infection)
8 in 180l (finally felt about right).

They did spawn eventually for me, fry were easy to raise but I’ve given them all away now. As in all of the puffs, just not quite fish for me.

The lesson here was “these are not nano fish, they’re not aquascpae friendly, they are messy, they are beautiful”.
 
I don’t think I’d recommend them at all to anyone 😕 they’ve been really stressful fish for me, and my assumptions about them were wrong when I got them (internet is often kinda wrong).

I’m really quite experienced with fish, and I lost about 1/3 of these over time. It still makes me a bit sad.

My puffer journey:

3 in 30l (2 ganged up on 1)
4 in 60l (I should have given up here, lost 2 to jumping)
6 in a 75l (not bad, but not big enough, again losing two - the two biggest)
8 in 120l (added 2 more, I lost two due to lip infection)
8 in 180l (finally felt about right).

They did spawn eventually for me, fry were easy to raise but I’ve given them all away now. As in all of the puffs, just not quite fish for me.

The lesson here was “these are not nano fish, they’re not aquascpae friendly, they are messy, they are beautiful”.

Thanks. I might try them eventually on the 360 liters.
 
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