New start

[Danielm]

Guys - firstly I wanted to say what a stunning forum you have created. Been hopping around for a few days now and it’s great.

So why am I here - I have decided to shut down my 250 litre reef tank and rather than be fishless, the stunning possibilities with aquascapes has drawn me in. I have history with tropicals in my 20, but things seemed to have moved on a notch or two!

Going to spend lots of time over the next few weeks doing research but have a few questions on kit I wanted to put up. I will re-use as much of my marine gear as possible so will have a sumped system

Q1. What filter media goes in the sump. The design of the Reefer means I need to use filter socks/cups.... but what else do I put in, and how much?

Q2. I have 2 AI hydra 26hd LED lights. My starting assumption is that these are probably overkill, but given I will take a big hit on them if I sell, I want to re-use. In theory I can get just about any light mix on them, so is it just a case of figuring out which mix between whites and colours works?

Q3. RO or not - I have a system, but it’s a bit of a chore. What I am reading suggest I need to be doing upwards of 25% water change per week. Do I need RO (what I this remineralisation I hear of)......is it just RO or also DI?

Thanks in advance. I am am sure there will be many more questions and look forward to time spent on the forum

 

[Angus]

Q1. What filter media goes in the sump. The design of the Reefer means I need to use filter socks/cups.... but what else do I put in, and how much?

Biological media, some sponges, i run filters so i don't know about freshie sumps really, check out corvus oscen on youtube for freshwater sumps.

Q2. I have 2 AI hydra 26hd LED lights. My starting assumption is that these are probably overkill, but given I will take a big hit on them if I sell, I want to re-use. In theory I can get just about any light mix on them, so is it just a case of figuring out which mix between whites and colours works?

As long as you go easy on the blues it should work fine as you can adjust them.

Q3. RO or not - I have a system, but it’s a bit of a chore. What I am reading suggest I need to be doing upwards of 25% water change per week. Do I need RO (what I this remineralisation I hear of)......is it just RO or also DI?

I've never used RO, but a lot of people swear by it, london water here, remineralization is adding traces elements etc back to the water, bit like reef salt without the salt.

 

[foxfish]

Hi and welcome to the forum, we have lots of x reef keepers around, most try to use their existing equipment.
The light colours are more about making the tank look natural, it is the brightness you need to be wary about.
Do you intend to use C02, that is a big factor when designing the tank and it’s layout.
Sumps are only used by a minority but can be great depending on few factors.

 

[Edvet]

What filter media goes in the sump

A sump is a great way of filtering, but, in a freshwater planted tank there is no so much need for biological filtering in the sump/canister filter. You have plants and a substrate which does that. The filters biggest use is 1) moving the water aka flow in the tank ( reefers should know about that) and 2) a slight cleaning of the water
ad 1) we want a nice continuous flow, not the wildly fluctuating flow of a reef tank. The general advice is to use a spraybar over the full length of the tank and have a nice circular flow towards the front, then down, then to the back and then up to the spraybar. Flow pumps can be used to aid the circular moption.
ad 2) in general we don't advise to use a lot of media in the filter as they hinder flow. In a sump there is the risk of degassing CO2 in you are adding that to the tank. I used CO2 and a sump. In that case i slowed the flow through my sump and removed a lot of media. Sealing the sump so CO2 stays in it can help

I have 2 AI hydra 26hd LED lights

I can't advise on that but: light colors are not the biggest ( if any) influence on growth. The plants don't realy care about the color of the light, it's the intensity that matters. For color go for what suits your eye. If the lights are controlable in output, there is no harm in trying them, just know the biggest, most made mistake is: too much light

. RO or not

Most plants don't care, plenty fish don't care.I use RO because i like to breed fish from areas where the water has few microsiemens. But you can have beautifull plants and fish with regular hard water. Ferts, light and CO2 in balance are the main objectives.

 

[Danielm]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Think I will struggle with a spray bar full stop given the sump return design. with the overflow, drain size and return pump, I can get a good rate of flow, just maybe need to think about how to control direction.

Good tip on covering the sump. Thanks.

Regarding Co2, I had not got that far yet. I have seen some fancy looking set up, canister and valves etc but need to research more - I don’t really have a budget constraint, but is this something I need to determine now or can it be added later?

Thanks again

 

[Andrew Butler]

Think I will struggle with a spray bar full stop given the sump return design

What makes you think this?
where's your overflow (internal/external - central/in a corner) and how is the water returned to your tank is the first thing and a picture probably would paint a thousand words here.

 

[Edvet]

CO2 can be added later.
There are basically two ways to do a planted tank, both can result in beautiful tanks. Either "low tech"meaning no added carbon (CO2) or "high tech"meaning added carbon and all the bits and bobs that go with that. Largest difference apart from carbon is the amount of light you use and the corresponding growth rate.
When starting as an unexperienced aquarist ( planted tank wise) getting your feet "wet" i would advise to go with the low tech side. Everything goes slower giving you more time to respond to troubles ( you don't start driving in a F1 car, wel except if you're Max V.)
Using the easy plant section from Tropica to select plants will get you on the way (tropica has a nice day to day advice too) Just make sure you start with "low light"

 

[Danielm]

What makes you think this?
where's your overflow (internal/external - central/in a corner) and how is the water returned to your tank is the first thing and a picture probably would paint a thousand words here.

My lights are not on, but think the stock Red Sea picture show the system better than I could.... so the water is surface skimmer through the weir combs and into the box. Goes down into the sump....through the sump and then pumped back up and out of the nozzle shown on the weir box.

Neat set up as everything is contained within the central weir but given the profusion of he box and stock nozzle, not sure i would be able to add a bar.

Tks

 

[Edvet]

Well for a low tech start you don't need the perfect flow/circulation.
Maybe later , if you want more flow, two small Koralia's or so can help. maybe you got those already. Or an extra pump going to an extra spraybar.

 

[Danielm]

Well for a low tech start you don't need the perfect flow/circulation.
Maybe later , if you want more flow, two small Koralia's or so can help. maybe you got those already. Or an extra pump going to an extra spraybar.

Have some jecod wave makers. May keep hold of those!

 

[Andrew Butler]

Have some jecod wave makers. May keep hold of those!

If you are really good with DIY then you could do something but it's very much designed to work the way they want so I think that as you say some other form of water movement is the easier way.

 

[alto]

Post photos or links of your favourite tanks - I suspect most will be running CO2

Given the lights you have, I'd run CO2 😉

What are tank dimensions?

RO - easiest way to remineralize is mix back with tap (unless there is some reason why tap is unsuitable)

You can grow most plants with harder water, there are some plants that "prefer" harder or softer water - ie they thrive even with little attention

Tropica website is a great place to get basics down (no confusing, conflicting, or mis-information), watch their plant handling videos for preparation, planting, trimming & growth details

 

[Danielm]

Given the lights you have, I'd run CO2 😉

What are tank dimensions?

Thanks for advice.
You comment on CO2 and lights is that due to limitation of the lights, or that they are a decent light, and CO2 will be helping to get the best from the set up?

Tank is 90x50x50

Another question - does phosphate control matter or is the tank one big refugium?

 

[foxfish]

It is not always easy to get the C02 spot on, so we do our best and match the light to the C02.
Light is extremely easy to over do, lack of C02 & to much light is most common cause of algae.
The mass majority of problem post on this forum can be tracked back to ... not enough C02 to match the light source.

 

[Danielm]

Silly questions 4 and 5 coming up. Been doing some more research....but each thread I find/read just confuses me more.

Q4. When it comes to substrate what is best? I see soils and plant specific ‘base layers’ then gravels and sands etc.. have read the term ‘cap’ a few times also. If I use soil do I need to cap with gravel for example?

Q5. I have a doser unit. If I add liquid Co2 what is there a difference once in the water column between that and gas? Is liquid CO2 the same as ‘ferts’ or are they different nutrients?

Thanks as always

 

[Danielm]

Q6. 🙂

Are there any suppliers where, given some descriptions on size of tank and scape objectives, they would put together some hardscape and give you a picture of it before ordering... Still need to get the car, but my sense is, there is not going to be a huge amount of supply in the LFS i can visit, so may end up ordering on-line.

 

[ian_m]

If I add liquid Co2 what is there a difference once in the water column between that and gas? Is liquid CO2 the same as ‘ferts’ or are they different nutrients?

Liquid carbon is not classified as ferts. Ferts are generally potassium, nitrogen, phosphorus, magnesium and traces of iron and other elements.

A large % of plant mass is carbon (upto 50%) weight and plants need to get a source of this in order to grow.

Terrestrial plants take it from the atmosphere, where it is about 400ppm. Normal tank water will be around 0.5ppm or less, which is why we add other carbon sources to get the plants to grow (at a reasonable rate !!).

Both CO2 injection and liquid carbons add plant available carbon to the water. CO2 is a far far more potent CO2 source for plants than liquid carbon, for the simple reason CO2 can be injected to 30ppm or more (if careful) but if you raised liquid carbon to these levels, the chemicals in liquid carbon would be fatal to fish and plants.

You can get very good tanks using liquid carbon, but they tend to be low light levels and smaller ie under 100litre. Dosing big tanks with liquid carbon can work out very expensive. eg for 200litre tank dosing 10ml (double rate) Excel @ £20 for 500ml will last 50days, which my £10 2Kg fire extinguisher lasts 100days and that is with a far higher CO2 level ie 4 times the cost, for far less effective CO2 supplement.

 

[Edvet]

Q4: any substrate will do, most scapers go for a soil, but plants will take up ferts from the water column readily, so using EI any soil/substrate should work. I am no scaper, i love biotope tanks, and i always use river sand. Most soils either can "hold" some ferts or are produced with it added.
Q5 :Liquid CO2 is not CO2, but a form of carbon (C) some plants can use. It's not a fertiliser ( (macronutrients: nitrogen, potassium, Magnesium; or miconutriens like Fe or Mn or a whole list more) but a carbon source wich is needed in case of high light. Me personally i prefer gaseous CO2 and not the desinfectant (glutaraldehyde, the main ingredient of liquid Carbon).

 

[kadoxu]

Q6. 🙂

Are there any suppliers where, given some descriptions on size of tank and scape objectives, they would put together some hardscape and give you a picture of it before ordering... Still need to get the car, but my sense is, there is not going to be a huge amount of supply in the LFS i can visit, so may end up ordering on-line.

Visiting a Garden Center may be your best bet if you want to pick the stuff yourself. But some online vendors are very helpful, so try and ask them if they can provide pics so you can choose what you want.