New scape new problems ....

[Trevor Pleco]

I would appreciate some guidance please ? I’m no newbie to planted tanks having used C02 for a decade or two with success, but I can’t work out what is happening here with my re-scape ? It’s a relatively big tank (1.8m 780 Lt) so this time I decided to go the low maintenance route. I ditched most the stems and removed the ten year year old ADA and Flourite mix of substrate. I wanted to create a clean river bed sand look below the rocks and hardscape so used river sand. Taken from my previous scape I planted large volumes of various mature bucephalandra types, anubias nana and gold. I used the same filter media from the previous scape so presumed it would all cycle fairly quickly.

The tank has been going for six weeks and I seem to be having issues that I’ve never experienced before, I appreciate it's probably all part of new tank syndrome. I’m dosing the same as I did before using Easy Life Profito and when all was fine.

I’m having serious algae issues on the slower growing plants such as the Bucephalandra and Anubias which I did not have before and I’m now finding BBA as well on the bucephalandra and hardscape. I replanted the crypt parva from the previous scape and this is now full of BBA although a few new shoots are finally appearing. The quicker growing plants such as blyxa, staurogyne repens, fissidens and various mosses including Cameroon are all growing nicely. My other big concern is that for the last two to three weeks literally dozens of leaves are coming off the Bucephalanda and anubias each day. Some of the buceph leaves have small pin size holes while others seem perfect, but have still come off.

To combat the hint of green water I added a UV filter at least a month ago. Can this be causing issues with the ferts or system in general I wonder ? Apart from the river sand which replaced the old ADA the UV filter is the only thing new I have added to the tank from what I had last time and which ran for almost a decade with no real issues and minimal algae. I’m not sure if its relevant to anything, but the UV filter is evidently also causing a small electrical short in the water. If I’m insulated and wearing shoes I don’t notice anything, but I get quite a shock when I’m barefoot and put my hands into the tank.. can this possibly be effecting the plants, surely not ?

Light - 8 hours a day x4 80W T5s on the ATI Unit as I did before and not the full 6 tubes.

Ironically, I thought that this scape without ADA and having slower growing plants would be an easier ride, but not so it seems. Any thoughts and advice most welcome please ?

First photo - previous ADA scape with little issues and the current scape with riversand and currently issues ...
Last pic showing the floating leaves mainly buceph is a daily occurrence, so hundreds of leaves a week ...

 

[Trevor Pleco]

Just collected the floating leaves again this eve .. this is just two days worth !

I have also today removed the UV filter as seen in the picture as I need to try something fast.. I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. My water changes have been minimal over the last three weeks as the corydoras are laying their eggs on the glass at the surface and was I trying to save these, but enough is enough ....

 

[Scaperinc]

UV is not recommended with some fertz, I would turn it off for now, also turn the light duration from 8 to 7 for now and run it at 50% power if thats possible. Can be increased weekly 5-10 percent and rest is just a time game and patience. BBA is co2 related so just increase slightly and if you seachem excel dose that.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Last pic showing the floating leaves mainly buceph is a daily occurrence, so hundreds of leaves a week ...

It looks like you might have some <"iron (Fe) availability issues">. Are any new leaves yellow?

cheers Darrel

 

[Connswater]

serious algae issues on the slower growing plants

Just two observations on top of others excellent advice, observations which I hope might help.
I think it was Dave from Aquarium Gardens who said that medium light tanks are the most difficult. In my experience plants should be thought of as shade loving or full sun and then a few, really not many at all, that are shade tolerant, just like in the terrestrial garden. Shade loving plants get covered with algae in high light conditions, but many full sun plants slowly or quickly fade in medium light and algae take advantage of their weakness. I think this is why so many 'kit' aquariums set up in tropical fish shops for display purposes often look so terrible, too little light, too little CO2 and not enough micro nutrients. Often too little in other words, not too much.
The UV. I keep black mollies in softened water and run a UV to keep white spot at bay, have done so for many years now, with no issues ref. fertilisation, and my UV has never given me an electrical shock - I have had an electrical sensation from an internal I added to help with flow, I discarded it, safety first and all of that.
You are no novice so I hope I haven't written anything a bit condescending, we all have issues at times. I often have to adjust things when the late Spring sun starts pouring into my dining area and hitting my tank and some low light plants really don't thrive in my main tank at all even though they are often described as easy.

 

[bazz]

Hi,
Moving your plants from a mature tank with a mature substrate into new tank with plain sand could possibly have induced 'melt', it is also possible that you will lose most of the leaves but as long as the rhizome is healthy they should be OK, you should already be able to see new growth after 6 weeks. BBA will be having a field day on those dying leaf fringes. Slowly trim off outer infested or half dead leaves. I would just keep the tank clean (water, glass, filter etc), keep up with some decent water changes and also get a comprehensive fertilizer, you can run it in tandem with your API 50/50, I would imagine NPK is in short supply right now as your plants are starting to grow and your mature substrate was probably supplying some of this whereas your new sand not so much, although this will come. I am surprised that you are not making your own fertz with this volume. Without the cavalry down there (in the substrate) I should think the water column is a more sterile environment too. Ironically, it's at this moment in time when half a tank full of fast growing stems would help you out even if you removed them at a later date but I understand for a tank this size it is not an option.
Watching with interest!

 

[PARAGUAY]

Can you cut down to two tubes,for now, ?and add floating plants, a gentle flow rather than a strong flow, daily water changes for now , think like has been said plants have to adapt and switch to a all in one liquid fertiliser ensuring all essential nutrients are available .Stem plants add a lot as @bazz says

 

[Trevor Pleco]

UV is not recommended with some fertz, I would turn it off for now, also turn the light duration from 8 to 7 for now and run it at 50% power if thats possible. Can be increased weekly 5-10 percent and rest is just a time game and patience. BBA is co2 related so just increase slightly and if you seachem excel dose that.

Cool, have taken UV out and removed two tubes. The drop checker goes green about 2 hours after light switch on but will up this a touch. I have a ton of shrimp in the tank so a bit weary of Excel...

 

[Trevor Pleco]

Hi all,

It looks like you might have some <"iron (Fe) availability issues">. Are any new leaves yellow?

cheers Darrel

Hi all,

It looks like you might have some <"iron (Fe) availability issues">. Are any new leaves yellow?

cheers Darrel

The buceph leaves are not really yellow, many have holes as in the pic, but others look fine but still drop off..

 

[Scaperinc]

Cool, have taken UV out and removed two tubes. The drop checker goes green about 2 hours after light switch on but will up this a touch. I have a ton of shrimp in the tank so a bit weary of Excel...

2 hours after the lights go on is an issue , it should be technically green at lights on or 1 ph drop from when the co2 turns on and lights come on , I have cherry shrimp and I dose excel every 2-3 days as per the seachem dosage

 

[Trevor Pleco]

Just two observations on top of others excellent advice, observations which I hope might help.
I think it was Dave from Aquarium Gardens who said that medium light tanks are the most difficult. In my experience plants should be thought of as shade loving or full sun and then a few, really not many at all, that are shade tolerant, just like in the terrestrial garden. Shade loving plants get covered with algae in high light conditions, but many full sun plants slowly or quickly fade in medium light and algae take advantage of their weakness. I think this is why so many 'kit' aquariums set up in tropical fish shops for display purposes often look so terrible, too little light, too little CO2 and not enough micro nutrients. Often too little in other words, not too much.
The UV. I keep black mollies in softened water and run a UV to keep white spot at bay, have done so for many years now, with no issues ref. fertilisation, and my UV has never given me an electrical shock - I have had an electrical sensation from an internal I added to help with flow, I discarded it, safety first and all of that.
You are no novice so I hope I haven't written anything a bit condescending, we all have issues at times. I often have to adjust things when the late Spring sun starts pouring into my dining area and hitting my tank and some low light plants really don't thrive in my main tank at all even though they are often described as easy.

all makes sense I have now reduced the light .

 

[Trevor Pleco]

Hi,
Moving your plants from a mature tank with a mature substrate into new tank with plain sand could possibly have induced 'melt', it is also possible that you will lose most of the leaves but as long as the rhizome is healthy they should be OK, you should already be able to see new growth after 6 weeks. BBA will be having a field day on those dying leaf fringes. Slowly trim off outer infested or half dead leaves. I would just keep the tank clean (water, glass, filter etc), keep up with some decent water changes and also get a comprehensive fertilizer, you can run it in tandem with your API 50/50, I would imagine NPK is in short supply right now as your plants are starting to grow and your mature substrate was probably supplying some of this whereas your new sand not so much, although this will come. I am surprised that you are not making your own fertz with this volume. Without the cavalry down there (in the substrate) I should think the water column is a more sterile environment too. Ironically, it's at this moment in time when half a tank full of fast growing stems would help you out even if you removed them at a later date but I understand for a tank this size it is not an option.
Watching with interest!

All great advice much thanks.. yes the rhizomes seem fine. Interestingly the roots are also kind of melting with both the buceph and anubias, but now seem to be shooting new white ones thankfully. I will up the water changes to at least 50% p'wk and monitor the canister filter (FX5). One thing I did not mention is I added a sachet of purigen to help with the new wood discolouring so hope this did not have an impact on the ferts etc ?

As regards a 'comprehensive fertiliser' , I'm currently using a one-stop-shop with "Profito" from Easylife, but perhaps this is not suitable ? Just trying to work out what you are suggesting 'by running it in tandem with my API 50/50'. Should add some Seachem Flourish then ?

Agee, apart from being mature and cycled the original substrate of ADA and Flourite must have been stabilising and assisting things and not just with the rooted plants. You are reading my lips .. I was just thinking of making my own ferts again.. as here in S'Africa we have a limited choice with the all-in -one ferts and it's getting mighty costly. I need to jog my memory again as to how I should go about this. I follow you on the sterile substrate, I have just bought some Microbe Lift Special Blend so hoping this speeds the process up.. I have a ton of needle leaf java form the previous scape that I could easily add back into the tank temporarily if you think this will help ?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I added a sachet of purigen to help with the new wood discolouring so hope this did not have an impact on the ferts etc ?

It won't for any ions, K+, NO3-, PO4--- etc, but it may for any iron chelates, that is because they are physically much larger molecules.

This is the <"Seachem answer"> in @Craig Matthews <"FE EDDHA"> thread.

Because of the non-mobile nature of iron (Fe) in the plant, it needs to be continually available. Because iron forms a lot of insoluble compounds any Fe+++ ions are likely to precipitate out pretty quickly, so if the Purigen is removing the chelated iron? Your plants may not be getting any.

cheers Darrel

 

[bazz]

As regards a 'comprehensive fertiliser' , I'm currently using a one-stop-shop with "Profito" from Easylife, but perhaps this is not suitable ? Just trying to work out what you are suggesting 'by running it in tandem with my API 50/50'. Should add some Seachem Flourish then ?

Hi,
I have never used either of these products but as far as my understanding goes neither contain any Nitrogen or Phosphate which plants need and it is ironic because Seachem advertise Flourish as a comprehensive supplement for planted aquaria. I was just trying to say rather than throwing away the Profito you could use it up by dosing 50% of the recommended dosage and a 50% dose of a complete fertilizer (with NPK) TNC Complete | The Nutrient Company for example.

You are reading my lips .. I was just thinking of making my own ferts again.. as here in S'Africa we have a limited choice with the all-in -one ferts and it's getting mighty costly. I need to jog my memory again as to how I should go about this.

750 liters is a very large volume of water to be paying for commercial brands of aquarium fertilizer. Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulphate along with a commercial Micronutrient mix TEC - Sodium Free is one option. If you are a user of Excel (Microsoft not Seachem), downloading and familiarising yourself with the wonderful IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator will assist you also helping to save you a lot of money if you choose to go down this channel. For ease a premix such as 2:1:4 can be used Instead of the above salts for NPK but you will lose the ability to tweek the ratios, Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination is a good read if contemplating this route. I am not sure what is available to you in South Africa but I would have thought there will be similar commercial products aimed at nurseries, farmers, hydroponics or aquaculture etc.
Cheers!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have never used either of these products but as far as my understanding goes neither contain any Nitrogen or Phosphate which plants need and it is ironic because Seachem advertise Flourish as a comprehensive supplement for planted aquaria.

What @bazz says.
We have a few Flourish and Profito threads <"Help with plant care (existing plants)">.

as here in S'Africa we have a limited choice with the all-in -one ferts and it's getting mighty costly. I need to jog my memory again as to how I should go about this

For ease a premix such as 2:1:4 can be used Instead of the above salts for NPK but you will lose the ability to tweek the ratios, Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination is a good read if contemplating this route.

That one.

I am not sure what is available to you in South Africa but I would have thought there will be similar commercial products aimed at nurseries, farmers, hydroponics or aquaculture etc.

There will be.

cheers Darrel

 

[Trevor Pleco]

Hi,
I have never used either of these products but as far as my understanding goes neither contain any Nitrogen or Phosphate which plants need and it is ironic because Seachem advertise Flourish as a comprehensive supplement for planted aquaria. I was just trying to say rather than throwing away the Profito you could use it up by dosing 50% of the recommended dosage and a 50% dose of a complete fertilizer (with NPK) TNC Complete | The Nutrient Company for example.

750 liters is a very large volume of water to be paying for commercial brands of aquarium fertilizer. Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulphate along with a commercial Micronutrient mix TEC - Sodium Free is one option. If you are a user of Excel (Microsoft not Seachem), downloading and familiarising yourself with the wonderful IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator will assist you also helping to save you a lot of money if you choose to go down this channel. For ease a premix such as 2:1:4 can be used Instead of the above salts for NPK but you will lose the ability to tweek the ratios, Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination is a good read if contemplating this route. I am not sure what is available to you in South Africa but I would have thought there will be similar commercial products aimed at nurseries, farmers, hydroponics or aquaculture etc.
Cheers!

Ok great.. I will see if I can get the Solufeed here. Just a correction ... I realise I have not been using Easy Life's Profito as this was unavailable for the last month or two so have been using a local product called Scape Complete. I see they also produce additional supplement bottles of K and P which I evidently need to add as well... I see they also have K and Trace to supply Potassium and Trace Elements. Any thoughts on these products would be appreciated ... ABOUT