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My plants are dying! What to do?

Victor

Member
Joined
10 Jun 2013
Messages
298
Location
Brazil
Hi, guys! My plants are facing some problems and I don't know what is wrong. So, let's go:

Tank Setup:

200 cm (lenght) x 40 (width) x 45 (height)
360 L is the total capacity but there are about 300 L water, I think.

The tank was lit by 12 PL bulbs (220 w total) by 8 hours a day. But I've changed the illumination 3 days ago, now the tank is lit by 6 x 30 w T8 tubes (180 w total) by 8 hours too. Look at the pictures:

Before
LPazVXM.jpg



After
ArrXZz8.jpg


Last couple of weeks the water flow was only 1400 L/h by 2 canisters 700 L/h each. I've increased this flow to 5000 L/h (I've put more 3 power heads 1200 L/h each).

The problem is that my tank are infested of algae (BGA and some kind of brown algae) and plants aren't growing! My CO2 level is Always between 25 - 35 ppm, I use a 2,72 dKH water filled drop Checker and another one with 5,78 dKH and I keep both green every time. Take a look:

mEpmOlQ.jpg


My Co2 is controled by a ph computer. I dose full estimative index. I've bought some chelated elements in a compounding pharmacy and a did my own micronutrients solution. These are the elements that I'm using:

1) chelated Fe (iron) 20 %;
2) chelated Cu (copper) 11,09 %;
3) chelated Mn 15 %;
4) chelated Zn 20 %;

All these above chelated by glycine.

5) H3BO3 (boric acid);
6) Na2MoO4.2H2O (sodium molybdate dihydrate);

So, I've calculated a dose to add weekly this nutrient level:

Fe: 0,5 ppm (mg/L);
Mn: 0,15 ppm
B: 0,06 ppm
Zn: 0,03 ppm
Cu: 0,014 ppm
Mo: 0,009 ppm

I add 1/3 of this above 3 times by week.

Ok, now let's go to macronutrients regime. I add weely this nutrient level (divided in 3 days):

NO3 (from KNO3): 30 ppm;
PO4 (from KH2PO4): 6 ppm;
K (from KNO3 and KH2PO4): 20 ppm;
Ca (from glycine chelated Calcium): 30 ppm;
Mg (from MgSO4.7H2O): 10 ppm;
SO4 (from MgSO4.7H2O) 39 ppm;
Na (from baking soda buffer that I did): 16,5 ppm.

So, That's it. Here are some tank and plants pictures:
tHBTtll.jpg

s61lyg3.jpg

6gLpV5j.jpg

NizfAA5.jpg

h3LTAsl.jpg


As you can see, my plants are awful! Some of them don't grow and are dying. My tank is 5 months old. Do you think I still have too much light? How about the PO4 week level, it's too high? And the water flow is too Strong? Please, any help your is welcome.

Thank you so much!
 
Hi Victor
What substrate are you using?
Do you gravel/substrate clean?
My advice would be lower the lighting to 5 hours only use two T8 tubes...till you get the aquarium established and healthy.
Remove all the grass and plants give them a good clean...clean the gravel and stone and equipment do a huge water change say 90%.
Replant all savable stems....do regular water changes...to keep muck down.
Clean your filter sponges.
Purchase some floating plants.
I/m not a great lover of power heads in a lightly planted immature tank.
They tend to blow a lot of muck/detritus around the tank.
hoggie
 
Thank you, Hoggie! I do regular water changes (50 % every week) and I change the White sponges every week. I'm using only sand as substrate. Currently there is 0,5 w/L. If I take off 4 tubes I'd have only 0,167 w/L. It's not too low light?
 
Hi Victor
You don't need to replace the sponges just clean them.
I start with lower lighting and increase as the aquarium is settled with no issues.
If you think the lighting is too low use 3 T8s.
Sand is not the best substrate media for plants...although some experienced scapers use it.
hoggie
 
I agree I've just got rid of the sand from ours. I think you could loose 2 tubes permanently and at least 8 fans. I maybe wrong but I think it's a light issue going from not so good spectrum to too much too long. As said 5 Hrs is enough. I'd also look at getting rid of the sand whilst salvaging the best plants. that going to be a nice planted tank with patience good water changes and less light to start with. Just as an example only, I run 2 x t5 48w a ft from water surface on 80cmx40x40 for 5 Hrs a day and still get algae issues.
 
It might be your substrate. Is it reasonably clean?
When BGA was established in my tank. I had tried changing in dosing, increasing water flow,
increasing CO2, changing 75% of water every other day for two months, increasing water surface
agaitation, turning on air pump at night, using activated carbon, lowering the light, cleaning filters
every two weeks, feeding less food. But they were not really working for me. And Erythromycin
just paused it for a while.
Plants did well after using Erythromycin until it (BGA) came back. They just couldn't grow with BGA
disturbing them, coating them. Several signs of nutrient deficiency were observed even with
EI dosing. Organics from dying plants just fed more BGA.
My substrate was old gravel from another tank mixed with laterite. Actually I had suspected that
it might be the cause but I was too lazy to accept it because that meant tearing down the tank.
So it had been left that way for 3 years. Until I read an article about physical and chemical
characteristics in surface sediments creating problem in a lake in China. And dredging
it seemed to correct the problem.
So in the end, I decided to tear the tank down and spent hours to suck the substrate clean down to
the very bottom. No major BGA problem and plants have acted "mormally" ever since. By the way,
I reused the plants that still coated with BGA. So it lingered there for two month before disappearing.
I should have had sprayed them with some diluted H2O2 before putting them back in to speed it up.

I think the main culpit is probably the large amount of laterite I used, not so much for mulm,
by the way.
 
looks like the rotala took a pruning they never quite recovered from...I go easy on pruning and try and keep as many growing tips in the tank (I "push down" stems if possible rather than snip em). It is difficult for some stem plants to generate new growth from the twiggy section, so always try and trim where you can see a node where new growth will happen rapidly.

Although I'm a fan of mud based substrates I've seen plenty examples where sand has worked. For me though, soil is such a massive reservoir of micronutrients, and microbes etc that I'd never overlook starting from that base....maybe consider the advice above about a overhaul and with mud base?

Some say that diatom algae (the brown stuff) is linked with silicates in sand. Sand is prone to be anaerobic and BGA may be feeding on nitrogen being produced in the anaerobic zone and leaching out. All maybes.

Why no fish or shrimp? This could be a tank where the imbalance is in the microbial populations...get a nitrogen cycle going and "good" bacteria will populate the nooks n crannies...
 
A long lighting period and no floating plants can cause problems.
Sand is not the ideal substrate for plants either .... it doesn't allow debris/detritus to ingress into the substrate.
This debris/waste...breaks down eventually and helps feed the plants a free fertilizer.
I grew my best plants in a established low tech aquarium with Flourite Black......and one T8 tube.
Never had any algae problems.
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/seachem-flourite-black-7kg-p-1735.html
pixel_trans.gif

I didn't even fertilize the water with Macro/Micro nutrients at the time.
hoggie
 
Sand is not the ideal substrate for plants either .... it doesn't allow debris/detritus to ingress into the substrate.

He said sand but his pictures say normal grain sized gravel many people are using in planted tanks.
I have no objection to using better substrate though.
 
Looks like sand to me:nailbiting:
Thank you, Hoggie! I do regular water changes (50 % every week) and I change the White sponges every week. I'm using only sand as substrate. Currently there is 0,5 w/L. If I take off 4 tubes I'd have only 0,167 w/L. It's not too low light?
 
I believe the algae problem originated from the high lights, although drop checkers and such may indicate a good CO2 level, it really is a poor way in checking for the actual CO2 levels in your tank. Drop checkers are there in my opinion to give an indication to the approximate level which the fish will be fine in. Since you have no fish from the photo you can try to blast the CO2/flow a bit more to see if there are any improvements. Remove as much algae as possible and go from there. a photo period of 6-7 is suggested.

In my opinion sand substrate does not matter too much if you have plants in your tank. The roots of the plants will provide oxygen into the substrate feeding the bacteria that will help discourage anaerobic spots. I believe fine plants such as hair grass will root better and grow more densely in sand substrate compared to gravel. I myself use a mix of peat moss and soil capped with cat litter for my tanks. I run low tech tanks so I'd like to have some long lasting substrate to allow to me be lazy and stress free. This is not to say that this can't be used in a hi tech setup as it will work very well.
 
Sand works as well as any inert substrate.

Plants will grow healthily without any substrate....if the water is fertilized properly.
hoggie
 
hello, guys! tank you for your feedback. I need to explain better some things:

He said sand but his pictures say normal grain sized gravel many people are using in planted tanks.
I have no objection to using better substrate though.

Yes, actually I'm using a very thin quartz gravel (about 1 millimeter diameter). The seller said me that it is a "quartz sand" but I think it's only to express that it looks like a sand. It's a good choice?

looks like the rotala took a pruning they never quite recovered from...I go easy on pruning and try and keep as many growing tips in the tank (I "push down" stems if possible rather than snip em). It is difficult for some stem plants to generate new growth from the twiggy section, so always try and trim where you can see a node where new growth will happen rapidly.

Although I'm a fan of mud based substrates I've seen plenty examples where sand has worked. For me though, soil is such a massive reservoir of micronutrients, and microbes etc that I'd never overlook starting from that base....maybe consider the advice above about a overhaul and with mud base?

Some say that diatom algae (the brown stuff) is linked with silicates in sand. Sand is prone to be anaerobic and BGA may be feeding on nitrogen being produced in the anaerobic zone and leaching out. All maybes.

Why no fish or shrimp? This could be a tank where the imbalance is in the microbial populations...get a nitrogen cycle going and "good" bacteria will populate the nooks n crannies...

Hi, xim! I've put some shrimps 3 days ago but only 7 of them. I hope they'll breed soon. Ah, I'm adding crystallized bactéria (Dennerle AquaRico FB7 BiActive). I put 10 mL after each water change. I'm using Sera filter starter too. I put 100 drops directly in sera siporax media.

So, The best way is to keep only 2 T8 bulbs by 5 hours a day, right?
 
Yes it is part of the issue Darren
I believe the sand is also part of the problem..if you have a lot of dirt/dead cells/detritus lying about you will get thread algae and diatoms.
Sand needs to be cleaned more often than any other substrate, especially if you have hair grass.
hoggie
 
I agree I've just got rid of the sand from ours. I think you could loose 2 tubes permanently and at least 8 fans. I maybe wrong but I think it's a light issue going from not so good spectrum to too much too long. As said 5 Hrs is enough. I'd also look at getting rid of the sand whilst salvaging the best plants. that going to be a nice planted tank with patience good water changes and less light to start with. Just as an example only, I run 2 x t5 48w a ft from water surface on 80cmx40x40 for 5 Hrs a day and still get algae issues.

Hi, Kirk

Why I need to took some fans? I use them to maintain the water temperature at 24 °C.
 
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