_Maq_
Member
A container - a barrel, an old aquarium, whatever. Filled up several days before water change. You don't have to remove chlorine and the temperature adjusts. A submersible pump and a hose. Done.
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My first adventure into aquascaping - Aquael 125L Walstad
- Thread starter Katharine
- Start date
Andy Pierce
Member
For low tech Walstad, from the picture I'm going to call way too much light. If things start going sideways that's what I'd address first. Did you consider (a lot of) floating plants?
It's two 1200 lumen lights, I can switch one off if needed.
I've got a tiger lotus and limnobium laevigatum, but they are going to take a while to get established.
Update:
Most of the faster growing plants are starting to settle in. The water sprite is making a bid to take over, and the Ludwigia Repens, Hydrocotyle Tripartita and Hydrocotyle leucocephala all have signs of growth.
The Limnobium laevigatum is growing but slowly and doesn't look very healthy, I'm not sure sure yet whether it'll sort itself out or if it has a deficiency. I've left some other plants floating until it gets established to help out a bit and they seem fine.
The vallisneria has been melting which was a bit of a surprise as it's a fully aquatic plant, but there are some smaller healthy leaves so I'm hoping it'll recover. The crypts are also melting but that's to be expected. No sign of the tiger lotus yet.
Algae is gradually establishing in the tank on the plants and the gravel - my partner pointed out the water has a slightly green tinge when the lights are out.
Also enjoying the top down view, especially of the tripartita:
Most of the faster growing plants are starting to settle in. The water sprite is making a bid to take over, and the Ludwigia Repens, Hydrocotyle Tripartita and Hydrocotyle leucocephala all have signs of growth.
The Limnobium laevigatum is growing but slowly and doesn't look very healthy, I'm not sure sure yet whether it'll sort itself out or if it has a deficiency. I've left some other plants floating until it gets established to help out a bit and they seem fine.
The vallisneria has been melting which was a bit of a surprise as it's a fully aquatic plant, but there are some smaller healthy leaves so I'm hoping it'll recover. The crypts are also melting but that's to be expected. No sign of the tiger lotus yet.
Algae is gradually establishing in the tank on the plants and the gravel - my partner pointed out the water has a slightly green tinge when the lights are out.
Also enjoying the top down view, especially of the tripartita:
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
It might be iron (Fe) deficiency, particularly if you have hard, alkaline water? Have a look at <"Should i start to fertilize?"> and links, and with traditional apologies to @jameson_uk .
cheers Darrel
Thanks. It's pretty hard water yeah, don't know the pH. I might try dosing a small amount of iron when I've got hold of some. Just surprising as it's a new tank and I assumed there'd be some from the soil.
_Maq_
Member
I agree, it looks like signs of iron deficiency.
You are right, most soils contain enough iron. In any case, microbial community takes time to develop properly and render full iron cycling. Likewise the plants' roots need time to develop and properly colonize the substrate.
Hi all,
If it is iron deficiency? It will take a while <"before things improve">. One of the reasons for using a floating plant in the <"Duckweed Index"> was that it did have the <"aerial advantage"> of access to atmospheric gases, but didn't have access to the substrate, and any reduced compounds it might contain.
cheers Darrel
The pH will be about pH 8. The pH relates to the reserve of carbonates (dKH) and the <"level of atmospheric CO2">, have a look at - <"Some handy facts about water">.
The problem with ferric iron (Fe III) is that it forms a lot of <"insoluble compounds"> in alkaline water. Because of these solubility issue we can't just supply Fe+++ as an ion (from a simple salt like <"ferric chloride (FeCl3)">) we have to use a chelate, something like FeEDTA. I'd start with <"Chempak Sequestered Iron">.
If it is iron deficiency? It will take a while <"before things improve">. One of the reasons for using a floating plant in the <"Duckweed Index"> was that it did have the <"aerial advantage"> of access to atmospheric gases, but didn't have access to the substrate, and any reduced compounds it might contain.
I'd agree, I expect time will <"solve some of your problems">. Iron is <"incredibly plentiful on Earth">, just mostly in forms <"that aren't plant available">.
cheers Darrel
I've ordered some chelated iron as you suggested Darrel, thank you.
Hopefully in time the aquarium will find its own balance as you say @_Maq_.
I am sad I wasn't able to add some of the clay rich top soil as my feeling is that might have helped.
In other news I spotted a couple of tiny hitchhiker snails! Probably from the very same Limnobium, as I bought it off eBay. Aware they can be considered a pest but still I'm excited to have some living creatures in the tank.
Hopefully in time the aquarium will find its own balance as you say @_Maq_.
I am sad I wasn't able to add some of the clay rich top soil as my feeling is that might have helped.
In other news I spotted a couple of tiny hitchhiker snails! Probably from the very same Limnobium, as I bought it off eBay. Aware they can be considered a pest but still I'm excited to have some living creatures in the tank.
So updates -
Algae is continuing to take over the tank, it's not quite at Finding Nemo levels but it's certainly on the way.
Since I set the tank up there's been the occasional large bubble from the substrate - I've not noticed any smells but I assume it's the substrate decomposing.
Maximum number of snails I've counted at one time is three but there may well be more. There are some satisfying clean squiggles of glass but the snails are still no match for the level of algae in the tank.
While waiting for the iron to arrive I added a little organic plant fertiliser as a last ditch attempt to save the limnobium - it may well have helped the algae but no obvious signs it's helped the limnobium, which is starting to succumb (one piece is dead, the other two are looking very unhappy).
I ordered some red root floaters which arrived yesterday looking healthy, so we'll see how they fair.
The iron arrived today. A complication is I don't have a way to measure fractions of a gram, so I have added a pinch and will have to see what happens next.
Ludwigia and water sprite continue to thrive, though the water sprite looks very pale. Evidence of new growth on all the plants apart from the Monte Carlo, crypts, anubias and pogostemon helferi. Still no sign of the tiger lotus.
I've dropped the temperature about 1⁰C down to ~22.5⁰C as my understanding is lower temperatures can be better for plants, perhaps by improving CO2 availability.
I had a brain wave last night for softening the water, which I am keen to do - I could use water from my dehumidifier. Googling it I was surprised how much this has been discussed already. Lots of fear mongering but I'm feeling like it should be pretty safe. Might take me a few weeks to collect enough for the whole tank (I'm thinking 2:1 humidifier : tap).
Fair to say things are a bit rocky this week!
Algae is continuing to take over the tank, it's not quite at Finding Nemo levels but it's certainly on the way.
Since I set the tank up there's been the occasional large bubble from the substrate - I've not noticed any smells but I assume it's the substrate decomposing.
Maximum number of snails I've counted at one time is three but there may well be more. There are some satisfying clean squiggles of glass but the snails are still no match for the level of algae in the tank.
While waiting for the iron to arrive I added a little organic plant fertiliser as a last ditch attempt to save the limnobium - it may well have helped the algae but no obvious signs it's helped the limnobium, which is starting to succumb (one piece is dead, the other two are looking very unhappy).
I ordered some red root floaters which arrived yesterday looking healthy, so we'll see how they fair.
The iron arrived today. A complication is I don't have a way to measure fractions of a gram, so I have added a pinch and will have to see what happens next.
Ludwigia and water sprite continue to thrive, though the water sprite looks very pale. Evidence of new growth on all the plants apart from the Monte Carlo, crypts, anubias and pogostemon helferi. Still no sign of the tiger lotus.
I've dropped the temperature about 1⁰C down to ~22.5⁰C as my understanding is lower temperatures can be better for plants, perhaps by improving CO2 availability.
I had a brain wave last night for softening the water, which I am keen to do - I could use water from my dehumidifier. Googling it I was surprised how much this has been discussed already. Lots of fear mongering but I'm feeling like it should be pretty safe. Might take me a few weeks to collect enough for the whole tank (I'm thinking 2:1 humidifier : tap).
Fair to say things are a bit rocky this week!
My test kit arrived today which may shed some light on what's going on (although I appreciate it may also not be that accurate), the readings were as follows:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - ~0.5
Nitrate - ~10-20
PH - ~8.5
Carbonate hardness/KH 214 - 267 ppm CaCO3
General hardness/GH - 291 - 374 ppm CaCO3
Clearly the plants aren't short of nitrogen, and potentially the excess is encouraging the algae. I guess the nitrite also means the tank is definitely not ready for fish yet.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - ~0.5
Nitrate - ~10-20
PH - ~8.5
Carbonate hardness/KH 214 - 267 ppm CaCO3
General hardness/GH - 291 - 374 ppm CaCO3
Clearly the plants aren't short of nitrogen, and potentially the excess is encouraging the algae. I guess the nitrite also means the tank is definitely not ready for fish yet.
_Maq_
Member
Not necessarily. The substrate surely kept some pockets of air. Anyway, the smell of hydrogen sulfide is not a good detector - when you can smell it, it's already too late.
Don't.
There's no CO2 in the water if pH is above 8.3. [Correction: This is a mistake, see post by @Andy Pierce here.]
With this pH, plants can use only bicarbonates. Most plants will struggle to get iron. Such a water is not suitable for planted tank.
It's not that simple. It's rather unstable microbial community which encourages algae. Too much organic compounds in the water column.
Not recommended. Water from dehumidifier is nearly demineralized, indeed. I thought I could use it for tea. My taste told me what conductivity meter failed to detect - the water was pretty bitter. I think minute amounts of copper or some other metals made the taste unsuitable - and definitely not suitable for aquarium use.
With water like that of yours, reverse osmosis is a necessity.
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This suggests dehumidifier water does not have high levels of copper and is in fact very safe:
I added some more iron today, did a water change (~20 litres) and scraped some of the algae off the glass.
The water doesn't have a green tinge anymore, but there's a lot of hair algae and brown algae on the glass.
I setup one of the lights on a timer - 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 4 hours on. I only have one timer so the other light will be staying off for now. Maybe having better control of the light will improve the algae situation.
It's good to be able to see inside the tank again, this week has been a little demoralising.
I added some more iron today, did a water change (~20 litres) and scraped some of the algae off the glass.
The water doesn't have a green tinge anymore, but there's a lot of hair algae and brown algae on the glass.
I setup one of the lights on a timer - 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 4 hours on. I only have one timer so the other light will be staying off for now. Maybe having better control of the light will improve the algae situation.
It's good to be able to see inside the tank again, this week has been a little demoralising.
John q
Member
Most domestic pipe work in the UK runs through copper pipes, amazingly fish and plants survive. Again the "copper" aspect gets the blame.
I do agree softening the water will make life easier, but don't get dis heartened.
Folks have indeed grown aquatic plants in hard water. 🙃 it's a fact 👌
Andy Pierce
Member
This is a common misconception. In bicarbonate buffered water in CO2 equilibrium with atmosphere the concentration of aqueous CO2 is constant over pH. At higher pH the bicarbonate and carbonate concentrations increase exponentially such that the fraction of CO2 relative to the other molecular species becomes small, but the absolute CO2 concentration, described by Henry's law, does not change.
_Maq_
Member
You are correct, and I was wrong. Thank you.
Hi all,
I'm also going to guess that CO2 concentration is the subject on UKAPS where <"Henry's Law"> gets its most frequent run-out.
cheers Darrel
That should be fine, have a look at <"All in One -Fertilizer making- Recommendation!">. You can <"subdivide a gram">, to give you fractions of a gram, by eye.
That is why <"Total (Dissolved) Inorganic Carbon"> (T(D)IC)" is a useful concept.
I'm also going to guess that CO2 concentration is the subject on UKAPS where <"Henry's Law"> gets its most frequent run-out.
It really depends on the plant. <"Those of us who have moved from liquid rock to soft water, are you surprised how easy is is to now grow plants?">.
That is the iron induced chlorosis, what you are looking for is <"greener new growth">.
cheers Darrel
Andy Pierce
Member
The above graph is where people go wrong because it does not convey that the amount of <"Total (Dissolved) Inorganic Carbon"> is strongly pH dependent. I'll comment further on that thread.
You can measure a few grams and then divide it with a credit card or something similar to approximately equal parts. Or dissolve some of it in water and measure volumes with a syringe. You will need to protect the unused dissolved chelated iron from light and maybe take some preservative measures (I dissolve the iron in 2% vinegar); I would not dissolve more than what will be used in a few weeks.
A pinch might also work, though; you can test how many pinches it takes to get whatever mass you can already measure and then divide that value accordingly.
I also have water with high KH, and I dose the iron daily in the morning since I expect it to precipitate quickly, in a few hours max. But the exact amount and frequency you need might also depend on the lighting intensity: I have fewer iron issues in the tank with less light. @dw1305's frogbit index always looks better in that tank, although I dose less.
